A small economy.

[daylatedollarshort]

When it is just my husband and I at home these days we have been running 10 kw of electricity a day, despite a decent sized, drafty older house. We have quite a few projects in our queue to lower that number further without any major investments. It' has been kind of a fun project though we're reaching the point of diminishing returns now. We are spending more time on lowering water use this year instead. Our water bill is often more than our monthly energy bill now and it is going to go up even further as soon as drought pricing goes into effect. So the lawns have to go. Native gardens with drought tolerant plants look prettier anyway.

We have a lot of discussions here on things like when to take SS, but having very low utility bills for 40 or 50 years can have a big influence on total retirement funding, too, by decreasing overhead. A small economy like LED bulbs that save money every day over 40 years really adds up. For us, lowering our utility bills $300 a month over 40 years means $144K less in total retirement expenses we will need to cover.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I'm going to start this campaign to get most of our lights switched to LED this month.

The question I have is how do I get DW trained to not have the TV on (in every room there is one) all day long to keep her "company"?

Use the money you save on electricity for something more fun or interesting than using it up on kilowatts?

 

[aja8888]

Use the money you save on electricity for something more fun or interesting than using it up on kilowatts?

I do need a new set of Ping irons....maybe I'll see how well that goes over (keep TVs off during the day and I'll drop $1500 on new golf clubs?). Yea, right!

OK, value recommendations on LEDs to replace common 60 - 100W incandescent bulbs? Can someone provide this? (Amazon, HD, etc, brand, ave cost?)

Thanks

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I do need a new set of Ping irons....maybe I'll see how well that goes over (keep TVs off during the day and I'll drop $1500 on new golf clubs?). Yea, right!

I think it has to be something your wife wants, too, if you want her to turn off the TV. What else could she do with the money? And show her the savings over several decades.

We sold an energy hog TV very cheap to one of of our kids' college friends who was living in a dorm and not paying his own electricity bill. We put the money towards a newer model, lower energy replacement TV.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I do need a new set of Ping irons....maybe I'll see how well that goes over (keep TVs off during the day and I'll drop $1500 on new golf clubs?). Yea, right!

OK, value recommendations on LEDs to replace common 60 - 100W incandescent bulbs? Can someone provide this? (Amazon, HD, etc, brand, ave cost?)

Thanks

We've been using CREE, either through home depot or Amazon. The 10 year warranty is the selling point for me...they stop working, I go swap them out at HD. As for price, this is highly subjective since the price is coming down every day. Also, we LOVE the three ways, you can't do that with the nasty CFLs.

Sent from my mobile device so please excuse grammatical errors.

 

[Golden sunsets]

We have been switching to LED where possible for a year or so. We gut renovated our maser bath in early 2013 and switched to 100% LED in that room and I've been tracking our energy usage since that time. Our usage has dropped between 16 and 23 % per month depending on the month. Mostly in the 16-18 percent range. My biggest user of energy in light bulbs is a set of 15 50W halogen bi-pin bulbs in track lighting in our kitchen which get heavy usage. I tried unsuccessfully to swap out those bi-pins earlier this month with LED MR 16's, but it was unsuccessful. (tried it out on an array of 3 bulbs over the kitchen sink. They flickered, even after swapping out the dimmer for a digital dimmer and the light source changed in such a way that I didn't like the effect. If it had been successful I'll bet I could have achieved another 10-15% decrease in usage, going from 750 watts to 105 watts. Darn!!!

 

[woodguy00]

We replaced 28 incandescent recessed lights on the second floor. Bigger than the cost of the electricity had to be the air leaking past the bulbs and then through the non-airtight canisters into the attic. These seal up very nicely with a rubber gasket against the ceiling and then I went into the attic space and covered all the cans with R30 insulation. They were IC rated but the first owner didn't trust insulation over the top, apparently. It should reduce ice dam issues also. Nice little weekend project.

I got the LEDs from HD for $10 each.

 

[chrisaukcam]

Re: Small Economy

What I have been doing on the new LED and CFL light bulbs is using a sharpie to write the year on the base. It quickly became apparent that the CFL bulbs weren't lasting long at all as I suspected. I still have not had to replace an LED bulb, but I was disappointed with the life of the CFL bulbs.

 

[MooreBonds]

Pay attention to the equivalent 'temperature' of the light. We like bright, 4K or 5K [i.e., 4,000° Kelvin] Most lamps are softer and 'warmer' with a more yellow light at 3K.

Ceiling panels intended for workplaces are most often 4K or 5K and are designed to be recessed. Some flat on the ceiling fixtures have an enclosure. (Obviously, what we go for. I am not going to dig a hole in my drywall.) I expect that I will have to make one or two shallow ceiling-hugging enclosures in future.

The temperature rating is something you must watch out for - even within the same manufacturer! I remodeled my kitchen 5 years ago and bought thin under-cabinet strip lights from Lowe's, 5 LED lights per strip, to mount above my countertop.

I absolutely love them! Only problem - when the electrician turned them on, we noticed that out of the 4 lights, there were 2 different colors! One a blueish tint, the other a yellowish tint!

Reading the Lowe's reviews on-line, I saw where some had posted the same comment regarding different hues. I looked on the package, but even (at that time) they said nothing about which temp it was! So you truly had to buy it and plug it in at home or have a store employee open it up and plug it in to turn it on to see what the color was. I returned the blueish ones and had to have the store employee open up 2 or 3 packages to finally find a yellow one to exchange it for.

By now (5 years later), I hope all LED manufacturers list temperature color on their packaging, but keep in mind that even a same manufacturer may have 2 (or more!) different color temperatures on the same LED light product.

 

[MooreBonds]

I have had a mixed experience with CFLs. Have not tried any LEDs for home use yet.

I replaced a 40w incandescent frosted globe with a CFL in the bathroom, but it didn't last. Not sure if the cause was the perpendicular mounting of the globes above the mirror, or the frequent on/off cycles which killed it, but I went back to incandescent bulbs for that fixture.

Cycling is an issue with CFLs. Not only does it take time to reach color temp, but cycling can significantly reduce lifespan.

I need to replace a halogen floor lamp in my living room because it gets too warm and turns itself off at odd times. Is there anyway to retrofit the fixture to take an LED?

Even if there is a way to retrofit it, look at where the light bulb is now. Any retrofit (barring an expensive complete reworking of the socket by yourself or an electrician) will likely have the CFL bulb sticking out much farther than the halogen was. They do make some compact CFLs, but they are on the lower end of the light output scale.

HA! I did a quick search of Lowe's to find the compact CFL I have on my exterior door lights, and actually found some CFLs that have a halogen-like 2 pin base:

Shop Specialty CFL Bulbs at Lowes.com!

Measure your 2 pin spread and size and see if any CFLs match. Looks like there may be low-cost options for you.

What I have been doing on the new LED and CFL light bulbs is using a sharpie to write the year on the base. It quickly became apparent that the CFL bulbs weren't lasting long at all as I suspected. I still have not had to replace an LED bulb, but I was disappointed with the life of the CFL bulbs.

I have CFLs in my kitchen flood overhead can lights (which I rarely turn on), the bathrooms, and halls. I had one can light burn out in the kitchen, and realized it was probably because the blown-in insulation I had put in the attic was covering up the can light. Sure enough, I read where the CFLs can overheat and die prematurely from it.

So if you have any can CFL lights recessed into the attic, make sure the insulation isn't covering it up, because it could lead to overheating.

 

[calmloki]

.... My biggest user of energy in light bulbs is a set of 15 50W halogen bi-pin bulbs in track lighting in our kitchen which get heavy usage. I tried unsuccessfully to swap out those bi-pins earlier this month with LED MR 16's, but it was unsuccessful. (tried it out on an array of 3 bulbs over the kitchen sink. They flickered, even after swapping out the dimmer for a digital dimmer...

No kind of expert, but: I read about adding to a LED strip light that it was critical that the polarity be maintained. An incandescent bulb doesn't care if the hot lead goes to the center terminal of the fixture or the shell, though there are conventions that we all follow. Given that you have the non-functional LED MR16 bulbs maybe it is worth checking the polarity at the connection point on your track light - maybe someone got all unconventional.

 

[NoiseBoy]

HA! I did a quick search of Lowe's to find the compact CFL I have on my exterior door lights, and actually found some CFLs that have a halogen-like 2 pin base:

Shop Specialty CFL Bulbs at Lowes.com!

Measure your 2 pin spread and size and see if any CFLs match. Looks like there may be low-cost options for you.

Thanks for doing some "leg work" for me. However, my current floor lamp is sporting a 200w halogen, and I need at least that much light for reading on the couch, so it looks like I will be shopping for a replacement fixture. It's not as though the current floor lamp owes me anything, I just like the way it looks.

 

[GTFan]

Hmm. I have a bag of CFLs that a relative took out to swap in LEDs. Think I changed two bulbs last year that burn all night (we are mostly CFL down south). The LEDs use about the same electricity as the CFLs last I checked, but still cost more than, well, free. Gonna be a long time before we go to LEDs. Tenants still get incandescent from my buying jag before they went away, as some tenants tend to steal bulbs and I don't pay their electric bills.. Also good to throw on instant warm light when showing a place.

Same here, I don't have any issues with my house full of CFLs. Given that LEDs cost more and don't save much more power, it's going to be a long time before we switch over.

 

[aja8888]

We are replacing halogen bulbs with LEDs in areas where we use the lights a lot. In areas where we rarely use the light, we are leaving the current bulbs. No sense changing to an LED in a closet in a spare bedroom you go into once a year.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I don't like the CFLs because of having mercury inside, especially living in an earthquake area. The EPA instructions for a broken bulb are linked to below. Scary stuff.

Cleaning Up a Broken CFL | Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs (CFLs) | US EPA

 

[Mulligan]

I don't like the CFLs because of having mercury inside, especially living in an earthquake area. The EPA instructions for a broken bulb are linked to below. Scary stuff.

Cleaning Up a Broken CFL | Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs (CFLs) | US EPA

Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.

I played with mercury from a broken thermometer when I was little. I had no idea it was toxic.

The phrase mad as a hatter comes from mercury poisoning -

""Mad as a hatter" is a colloquial phrase used in conversation to refer to a crazy person. In 18th and 19th century England, mercury was used in the production of felt, which was used in the manufacturing of hats common of the time. People who patronised these hat factories were exposed daily to trace amounts of the metal, which accumulated within their bodies over time, causing some workers to develop dementia caused by mercury poisoning (called mad hatter syndrome). Thus, the phrase became popular as a way to refer to someone who was perceived as insane."

Mad as a hatter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sengsational]

What I have been doing on the new LED and CFL light bulbs is using a sharpie to write the year on the base. It quickly became apparent that the CFL bulbs weren't lasting long at all as I suspected. I still have not had to replace an LED bulb, but I was disappointed with the life of the CFL bulbs.

I've been doing the same thing with the sharpie, and discovered that the CFLs rarely last the time on the front of the package, and ofter fail before the guarantee time period. Often they say "7 Years" on the front, but guaranteed for 2 years.

This shenanigans with CFLs has kept me away from LED lighting...I imagine the sellers are still full of BS on reliability...the guarantee tells all, not the pitch on the front of the package.

 

[aja8888]

Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Typical EPA over reaction. Kind of like Prop 65 in California. There is not remotely enough mercury vapor produced by a CFL to significantly harm humans, but you should be careful handling CFL debris. You probably breathe more of that (and other toxic chemicals) when in traffic or ingest more from a can of tuna.

Article below covers the topic:

Mercury in CFL Bulbs: Is It Dangerous?

"A paper in the August 2009 issue of the lighting journal LD+A found that the median amount of mercury vapor to which a person is exposed through a broken CFL is a tiny fraction of the total mercury contained within the bulb: Approximately 0.07 micrograms (0.0007 mg). On the other hand, a tuna fish sandwich, which contains the more hazardous methylmercury, is estimated to expose the consumer to more than 48 times that amount due to the more efficient method of consumption (literally eating the mercury) [5]."

 

[ERD50]

Typical EPA over reaction. Kind of like Prop 65 in California. There is not remotely enough mercury vapor produced by a CFL to significantly harm humans, but you should be careful handling CFL debris. You probably breathe more of that (and other toxic chemicals) when in traffic or ingest more from a can of tuna.

Article below covers the topic:

Mercury in CFL Bulbs: Is It Dangerous?

"A paper in the August 2009 issue of the lighting journal LD+A found that the median amount of mercury vapor to which a person is exposed through a broken CFL is a tiny fraction of the total mercury contained within the bulb: Approximately 0.07 micrograms (0.0007 mg). On the other hand, a tuna fish sandwich, which contains the more hazardous methylmercury, is estimated to expose the consumer to more than 48 times that amount due to the more efficient method of consumption (literally eating the mercury) [5]."

I knew this sounded familiar. For another view:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/incandescent-cfl-led-halogen-73380.html#post1486349

Huge difference between the liquid and the vapors of mercury:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning#Elemental_mercury

... (liquid metallic mercury) is poorly absorbed by ingestion and skin contact. It is hazardous due to its potential to release mercury vapor. Animal data indicate less than 0.01% of ingested mercury is absorbed through the intact gastrointestinal tract, ....

.... In humans, approximately 80% of inhaled mercury vapor is absorbed via the respiratory tract, where it enters the circulatory system and is distributed throughout the body.[25] Chronic exposure by inhalation, even at low concentrations in the range 0.7–42 μg/m3, has been shown in case control studies to cause effects such as tremors, impaired cognitive skills, and sleep disturbance in workers

and

attempted suicide via intravenous injection does not appear to result in systemic toxicity

So 80% absorbed by inhalation versus 0.01% by ingestion.... that's a factor of 8000.

I'm not saying that occasional exposure to a broken CFL will be a problem, just that comparing inhaling the vapor to eating or handling mercury that is in liquid form is not a good comparison at all.

I didn't do a deep dive into the data, but the wiki article appears to be well referenced, with links for everything.

-ERD50

 

[folivier]

And you do realize the fluorescent tubes we've used, and played swords with as a kid, also contain Hg?
That said I hate CFLs but it's because of the low quality light and that it was a political and not truly environmental decision. I much prefer LEDs.

 

[LinCella]

I'm sorry - I want the old lightbulbs back, Hate the way any new bulbs cast shadows and the light is very unnatural. Can they seriously do no better than that?

 

[Mulligan]

Typical EPA over reaction. Kind of like Prop 65 in California. There is not remotely enough mercury vapor produced by a CFL to significantly harm humans, but you should be careful handling CFL debris. You probably breathe more of that (and other toxic chemicals) when in traffic or ingest more from a can of tuna.

Article below covers the topic:

Mercury in CFL Bulbs: Is It Dangerous?

"A paper in the August 2009 issue of the lighting journal LD+A found that the median amount of mercury vapor to which a person is exposed through a broken CFL is a tiny fraction of the total mercury contained within the bulb: Approximately 0.07 micrograms (0.0007 mg). On the other hand, a tuna fish sandwich, which contains the more hazardous methylmercury, is estimated to expose the consumer to more than 48 times that amount due to the more efficient method of consumption (literally eating the mercury) [5]."

Well that is good news....Because I have never eaten seafood or fish in my life. So the playing with mercury as a youth is cancelled out by not ingesting any mercury.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[calmloki]

Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We ended up with a small heavy glass jar - maybe 1 1/2" diameter and 4" tall with a glass stopper and several inches of mercury within - probably from a farm auction box as farm auctions were a big part of my childhood. That was the best darn toy. Did you make silver dimes new again? Dipping them in the mercury and then rubbing would leave them bright and shiny.

 

[razztazz]

I have a few CFLs around the house and have used a few over the past 10 yrs or so. but only a few. I am so glad I didn't fall for them. As long as LEDs are becoming more popular I'll wait and start replacing the olde fashioned ones with the LEDs and skip over the CFLs