Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-31-2015, 01:29 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
I don't like the CFLs because of having mercury inside, especially living in an earthquake area. The EPA instructions for a broken bulb are linked to below. Scary stuff.

Cleaning Up a Broken CFL | Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs (CFLs) | US EPA

Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-31-2015, 01:41 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.
I played with mercury from a broken thermometer when I was little. I had no idea it was toxic.

The phrase mad as a hatter comes from mercury poisoning -

""Mad as a hatter" is a colloquial phrase used in conversation to refer to a crazy person. In 18th and 19th century England, mercury was used in the production of felt, which was used in the manufacturing of hats common of the time. People who patronised these hat factories were exposed daily to trace amounts of the metal, which accumulated within their bodies over time, causing some workers to develop dementia caused by mercury poisoning (called mad hatter syndrome). Thus, the phrase became popular as a way to refer to someone who was perceived as insane."

Mad as a hatter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________

__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 01:41 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisaukcam View Post
What I have been doing on the new LED and CFL light bulbs is using a sharpie to write the year on the base. It quickly became apparent that the CFL bulbs weren't lasting long at all as I suspected. I still have not had to replace an LED bulb, but I was disappointed with the life of the CFL bulbs.
I've been doing the same thing with the sharpie, and discovered that the CFLs rarely last the time on the front of the package, and ofter fail before the guarantee time period. Often they say "7 Years" on the front, but guaranteed for 2 years.

This shenanigans with CFLs has kept me away from LED lighting...I imagine the sellers are still full of BS on reliability...the guarantee tells all, not the pitch on the front of the package.
__________________
sengsational is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 01:44 PM   #44
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Typical EPA over reaction. Kind of like Prop 65 in California. There is not remotely enough mercury vapor produced by a CFL to significantly harm humans, but you should be careful handling CFL debris. You probably breathe more of that (and other toxic chemicals) when in traffic or ingest more from a can of tuna.

Article below covers the topic:

Mercury in CFL Bulbs: Is It Dangerous?

"A paper in the August 2009 issue of the lighting journal LD+A found that the median amount of mercury vapor to which a person is exposed through a broken CFL is a tiny fraction of the total mercury contained within the bulb: Approximately 0.07 micrograms (0.0007 mg). On the other hand, a tuna fish sandwich, which contains the more hazardous methylmercury, is estimated to expose the consumer to more than 48 times that amount due to the more efficient method of consumption (literally eating the mercury) [5]."
__________________
......."Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 02:49 PM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
Typical EPA over reaction. Kind of like Prop 65 in California. There is not remotely enough mercury vapor produced by a CFL to significantly harm humans, but you should be careful handling CFL debris. You probably breathe more of that (and other toxic chemicals) when in traffic or ingest more from a can of tuna.

Article below covers the topic:

Mercury in CFL Bulbs: Is It Dangerous?

"A paper in the August 2009 issue of the lighting journal LD+A found that the median amount of mercury vapor to which a person is exposed through a broken CFL is a tiny fraction of the total mercury contained within the bulb: Approximately 0.07 micrograms (0.0007 mg). On the other hand, a tuna fish sandwich, which contains the more hazardous methylmercury, is estimated to expose the consumer to more than 48 times that amount due to the more efficient method of consumption (literally eating the mercury) [5]."
I knew this sounded familiar. For another view:

Incandescent, CFL, LED, Halogen

Quote:
Huge difference between the liquid and the vapors of mercury:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercur...mental_mercury

Quote:
... (liquid metallic mercury) is poorly absorbed by ingestion and skin contact. It is hazardous due to its potential to release mercury vapor. Animal data indicate less than 0.01% of ingested mercury is absorbed through the intact gastrointestinal tract, ....

.... In humans, approximately 80% of inhaled mercury vapor is absorbed via the respiratory tract, where it enters the circulatory system and is distributed throughout the body.[25] Chronic exposure by inhalation, even at low concentrations in the range 0.7–42 μg/m3, has been shown in case control studies to cause effects such as tremors, impaired cognitive skills, and sleep disturbance in workers
and
Quote:
attempted suicide via intravenous injection does not appear to result in systemic toxicity
So 80% absorbed by inhalation versus 0.01% by ingestion.... that's a factor of 8000.

I'm not saying that occasional exposure to a broken CFL will be a problem, just that comparing inhaling the vapor to eating or handling mercury that is in liquid form is not a good comparison at all.

I didn't do a deep dive into the data, but the wiki article appears to be well referenced, with links for everything.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 03:12 PM   #46
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 418
And you do realize the fluorescent tubes we've used, and played swords with as a kid, also contain Hg?
That said I hate CFLs but it's because of the low quality light and that it was a political and not truly environmental decision. I much prefer LEDs.
__________________
folivier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 03:14 PM   #47
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 377
I'm sorry - I want the old lightbulbs back, Hate the way any new bulbs cast shadows and the light is very unnatural. Can they seriously do no better than that?
__________________
LinCella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 03:26 PM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
Typical EPA over reaction. Kind of like Prop 65 in California. There is not remotely enough mercury vapor produced by a CFL to significantly harm humans, but you should be careful handling CFL debris. You probably breathe more of that (and other toxic chemicals) when in traffic or ingest more from a can of tuna.

Article below covers the topic:

Mercury in CFL Bulbs: Is It Dangerous?

"A paper in the August 2009 issue of the lighting journal LD+A found that the median amount of mercury vapor to which a person is exposed through a broken CFL is a tiny fraction of the total mercury contained within the bulb: Approximately 0.07 micrograms (0.0007 mg). On the other hand, a tuna fish sandwich, which contains the more hazardous methylmercury, is estimated to expose the consumer to more than 48 times that amount due to the more efficient method of consumption (literally eating the mercury) [5]."

Well that is good news....Because I have never eaten seafood or fish in my life. So the playing with mercury as a youth is cancelled out by not ingesting any mercury.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 06:51 PM   #49
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Well this isn't good news for me. Thirty five years ago in science class we would take it out of the jar and play with it. I guess we should have worn gloves and a mask.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We ended up with a small heavy glass jar - maybe 1 1/2" diameter and 4" tall with a glass stopper and several inches of mercury within - probably from a farm auction box as farm auctions were a big part of my childhood. That was the best darn toy. Did you make silver dimes new again? Dipping them in the mercury and then rubbing would leave them bright and shiny.
__________________
calmloki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 08:11 PM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,564
I have a few CFLs around the house and have used a few over the past 10 yrs or so. but only a few. I am so glad I didn't fall for them. As long as LEDs are becoming more popular I'll wait and start replacing the olde fashioned ones with the LEDs and skip over the CFLs
__________________
razztazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 08:48 PM   #51
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post

I'm not saying that occasional exposure to a broken CFL will be a problem, just that comparing inhaling the vapor to eating or handling mercury that is in liquid form is not a good comparison at all.

I didn't do a deep dive into the data, but the wiki article appears to be well referenced, with links for everything.

-ERD50
Thanks for all your time and effort here. It's funny that EPA views spills of liquid mercury as a huge problem along pipeline corridors where the liquid gets in the soil at the base of the meter stations with old, broken or abused mercury meters in them. Clean up is generally enforced by EPA and is in the <10 parts per billion range. No vapors there! I guess they worry about prairie dogs and lizards eating the mercury?
__________________
......."Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 07:58 AM   #52
Full time employment: Posting here.
Golden sunsets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki View Post
No kind of expert, but: I read about adding to a LED strip light that it was critical that the polarity be maintained. An incandescent bulb doesn't care if the hot lead goes to the center terminal of the fixture or the shell, though there are conventions that we all follow. Given that you have the non-functional LED MR16 bulbs maybe it is worth checking the polarity at the connection point on your track light - maybe someone got all unconventional.

Hi Calmloki; I'm not sure how to check polarity Even if I could stop the flickering though, the way in which the light was emitted bothered me. The existing track lighting is a bi-pin bulb covered by a test tube shaped white shade. That configuration is then set within a decorative glass shade so that when turned on the light emits in all directions creating a glow effect. The MR 16's only direct light downward and the shade does not glow. I did first try replacement "corn" LED's which would have solved the Glow issue but corn bulbs are pretty unattractive to look at and they would not consistently turn on. My final solution will be to eventually replace the track with integrated LED track but I'll have to budget for that and include repainting the walls as the current track is wider than any replacement track I've seen thus far.
__________________
"Luck favors the prepared mind"
Pasteur
Golden sunsets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 08:12 AM   #53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
Thanks for all your time and effort here. It's funny that EPA views spills of liquid mercury as a huge problem along pipeline corridors where the liquid gets in the soil at the base of the meter stations with old, broken or abused mercury meters in them. Clean up is generally enforced by EPA and is in the <10 parts per billion range. No vapors there! I guess they worry about prairie dogs and lizards eating the mercury?
I have no idea what the EPA's thinking is on that.

I'm very much in favor of protecting our environment, and the EPA has done some very good work there, but I often have no idea what the EPA's thinking in certain areas.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 11:37 AM   #54
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I have no idea what the EPA's thinking is on that.

I'm very much in favor of protecting our environment, and the EPA has done some very good work there, but I often have no idea what the EPA's thinking in certain areas.

-ERD50
I have parallel thoughts on EPA's thinking, especially after dealing with their policies for 30+ years.
__________________
......."Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 11:57 AM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
Thanks for all your time and effort here. It's funny that EPA views spills of liquid mercury as a huge problem along pipeline corridors where the liquid gets in the soil at the base of the meter stations with old, broken or abused mercury meters in them. Clean up is generally enforced by EPA and is in the <10 parts per billion range. No vapors there! I guess they worry about prairie dogs and lizards eating the mercury?
My uneducated guess is the concern of getting it into the water table. Many parts of the country you are not supposed to eat the fish you catch due to the amount of mercury they contain.

🐑
__________________
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 12:24 PM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Sites like Scientific American have the same warnings and refer to the EPA instructions:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...lbs-dangerous/

Included in the instructions on the Scientific American site - open windows, air out the room, get all the people and pets out of the room, shut off your furnace, wear gloves, use duct tape to pick up fragments, put in glass jar or bag, put the bag outside, vacuums or broom can spread mercury to other parts of the house.

You guys might be right that the risk is minimal, but I try to limit, if I can, the number of items in my house that have to be disposed of at a hazardous waste site, especially when LEDs are mercury free and also use less energy. Our local Costco has inexpensive LEDs and the utility has instant rebates at some big box stores.

NPR has an article with concerns over the cumulative impact of the bulbs going into landfills and impact on workers who handle trash and waste for a living:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=7431198
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:11 PM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
...
You guys might be right that the risk is minimal, but I try to limit, if I can, the number of items in my house that have to be disposed of at a hazardous waste site, especially when LEDs are mercury free and also use less energy. ...
I've never really liked CFLs, but I do use them in several high-use sockets where I'm OK with the light quality (which isn't bad in some cases). I think CFLs will be such a transitional product, that in 30 years they will show up in those quizzes - "Guess what this is?" and kids will have no idea.

I hope LEDs continue to come down in price and I hope they will be reliable (that 20,000 hour life is a bogus number). I have just one so far, a dim-able one. Just a little odd as is it in a fixture with two filament bulbs, and when you dim them, they get yellow/orange, and the LED stays 'white-ish'.

And I hope they standardize on some LED assemblies for new light fixtures. I understand that they need to feed the bulb replacement market, but fitting LEDs into the old Edison bulb form factor is not the way to use new technology. A filament bulb needs to be small to concentrate the heat so that filament can get white-hot. But LEDs (and their driver circuits) need to be cool for long life. The LED itself gives of far less heat (being more efficient) than a filament, but that heat is concentrated onto that small LED, so the temperature goes up.

It would be better if new light fixtures had the LEDs spread out so they have room to cool, and with the driver circuit further away from the heat. This would be easy in most lamps if it was designed in, but fitting all that in an Edison style bulb is what creates the heat and reliability problems.

It's like trying to put horseshoes on an automobile instead of tires. Gotta change with the technology.

I actually bought a strip of LEDs to play with, I might install them in our kitchen to replace the old, sometimes buzzy, sometimes flickery fluorescent tube lights. Lots of room in that fixture, and spreading the LEDs on those strips should disperse the light and keep everything cool.


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:19 PM   #58
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
mpeirce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus area
Posts: 1,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I actually bought a strip of LEDs to play with, I might install them in our kitchen to replace the old, sometimes buzzy, sometimes flickery fluorescent tube lights. Lots of room in that fixture, and spreading the LEDs on those strips should disperse the light and keep everything cool.
Strings of LED lights under cabinets in the kitchen great.

When we did some kitchen updating, we replaced the old (flickery) florescent tubes under the cabinets with LEDs. They are very good at brightening up counter tops. And they use so little power that we just leave them on all day.
__________________
mpeirce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:29 PM   #59
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post

I actually bought a strip of LEDs to play with, I might install them in our kitchen to replace the old, sometimes buzzy, sometimes flickery fluorescent tube lights. Lots of room in that fixture, and spreading the LEDs on those strips should disperse the light and keep everything cool.


-ERD50
I ran a 36" string of LEDs under the shelf beyond the lid in my VW Passat's trunk as the one small bulb in the corner of the trunk did not provide any light at night. Now my trunk is a "light show" at night when I open it. Stck them on with 3M adhesive automotive tape roll. Connected the + and - to the existing light socket.
__________________
......."Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2015, 01:41 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpeirce View Post
Strings of LED lights under cabinets in the kitchen great.

When we did some kitchen updating, we replaced the old (flickery) florescent tubes under the cabinets with LEDs. They are very good at brightening up counter tops. And they use so little power that we just leave them on all day.
This is a ceiling fixture over the sink, so it will need to be more lumens than under-cabinet lighting would likely be (but I should probably do that too, that is nice!).

Here's what I bought - looks like it will take 3-4 to match the light of two 40W tubes - though maybe the directionality will make them appear brighter? This task is pretty far down on my list though...

Amazon.com: HitLights Warm White SMD3528 LED Light Strip - 300 LEDs, 16.4 Ft Roll, Cut to length - 3000K, 82 Lumens / 1.5 Watts per foot, Requires 12V DC: Musical Instruments

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got small kids? Got small grandkids? cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 5 09-10-2008 10:52 PM
IJS vs. VBR (iShares small value & Vanguard small value) Fttaw FIRE and Money 1 01-22-2007 05:10 PM
Re: Giving The Economy a "Boost"? John Galt Young Dreamers 1 01-28-2005 08:16 AM
The Wal-Mart Economy? Craig Other topics 4 01-14-2005 08:44 AM
Nuke reactors & Sci Am on hydrogen economy Nords Other topics 25 06-28-2004 10:18 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:44 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.