Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-25-2008, 12:35 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
Less than 1% of all folks who use Lake Michigan go out more than 5 miles, so what's the diff?
Yeah, unless you're a bird, what's the diff?

Actually I'm a fan of wind generated power and purchase it through our electric company. I always though I would love to have one of those big towers on my back 40 (OK, my back 3...). Then I saw this:

Maybe not..
__________________

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-25-2008, 06:52 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
There was a big controversy about putting a wind farm out in Lake Michigan a couple years ago. The environmental folks were upset about the fact that some migrating birds would get killed by the windmills. Of course, being 10 miles offshore, who would know?

The wind farm could have produced enough energy to power 500,000 homes, but it's now dead. Less than 1% of all folks who use Lake Michigan go out more than 5 miles, so what's the diff?
I believe this touches at the heart of why we've done little in the way of energy policy in this country. For every alternative, there are vocal opponents, many well organized and/or funded. Whether it's wind farms killing birds, dangerous nukes, dirty coal, water rights issues WRT hydro, ethanol drives up (corn) food prices, unsightly/expensive solar panels, drilling offshore or at ANWR is environmentally unsafe, higher gas prices unfairly harm suburbanites and auto manufacturers --- ad nauseum. So we do nothing, and it's not the fault of our politicians alone. Something has to give and no one will give an inch - 'insanity is doing what you've always done and expecting different results.' We either drive the change to our best (least evil) advantage or we'll be forced to change in a way we don't like (and could have avoided). If we don't have a well-thought out energy policy irreversibly implemented within 4 years, we'll deserve what happens...
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2008, 06:57 PM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Imaking bio diesel out of turkey waste
Its only a matter of time before some fru-fru folks come up with biodiesel made from turkey waste stuffed with duck waste stuffed with chicken waste.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2008, 07:00 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Turducken-diesel?
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2008, 07:18 PM   #45
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Turducken-diesel?


I think with oil prices as high as they are, there will be a host of alternatives and there will probably be a lot of money chasing the promising technologies and companies, but there will be many failures. Finding the next Cisco or Amazon or Google in this new arena will make some folks very rich I think.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2008, 07:25 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Turducken-diesel?
Best I could come up with was diesturbioducken

Like I said, its been a long day.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2008, 07:40 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
I believe this touches at the heart of why we've done little in the way of energy policy in this country. For every alternative, there are vocal opponents, many well organized and/or funded. Whether it's wind farms killing birds ... .
Yep, and what really gets me is, they don't consider how many birds are killed from pollution from coal plants, acid rain, loss of habitat from coal mining, birds killed in the process of mining...

I'd love to see the enviro-wackos ( and I mean the wackos - I'm certainly not characterizing all environmentalists as wackos) actually come up with a solution, rather than just claiming that everything everyone does is 'bad'.

wooops, are we in the Soap Box forum ??

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 08:29 AM   #48
Full time employment: Posting here.
CitricAcid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 546
Everything is bad for someone, because everybody is part of some special interest group. That's just the way it is, and the way that energy policy is intertwined with American politics makes it very tough to have a reliable energy policy. So much of our economy is based off of energy, and to make many changes would certainly hurt some special interest groups more than others, who are inevitably the most vocal. Anyone feel that since Iowa is the first primary for Democrats and Republicans alike, it is absolutely necessary for any presidential elect to have a pro-ethanol stance (John McCain did skip out on Iowa, if I recall correctly). I still stand by nuclear, even with the large infrastructure costs, it will save money and headaches over time. I mean we are in a forum where we encourage spending a little now (on investing) for long term results, rights?
__________________
CitricAcid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 10:04 AM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I'd love to see the enviro-wackos ( and I mean the wackos - I'm certainly not characterizing all environmentalists as wackos) actually come up with a solution, rather than just claiming that everything everyone does is 'bad'.
I'm sure you'd be hard-pressed to get them to admit it, but I suspect the ones on the very far side would be happier with a severe reduction in the number of people on this planet.

I've been thinking the past few days. I need to mull it over some more, but I'm not so sure that I'm an environmentalist. At the very least, that's the fad du jour. Rather, I think I'm going to call myself a pragmatic conservationist.
__________________
Marquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 11:58 AM   #50
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquette View Post
I'm sure you'd be hard-pressed to get them to admit it, but I suspect the ones on the very far side would be happier with a severe reduction in the number of people on this planet.
I think the severe reduction is going to occur, no matter as to anyone's opinions on whether or not it is a good idea..
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 12:01 PM   #51
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquette View Post
I'm sure you'd be hard-pressed to get them to admit it, but I suspect the ones on the very far side would be happier with a severe reduction in the number of people on this planet.
I think the world would be a much more stable place if the human population were half of what it is today.

I wouldn't support coercive or criminal measures to get there, but I do believe our future would be a lot more sustainable if we stopped causing demand for finite resources to be stretched thinner and thinner by population growth.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 02:30 PM   #52
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9
A couple easy ways to play AE

Ticker TAN for solar.

And ticker FAN for wind.
__________________
Deadbeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 05:41 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jIMOh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Milford, OH
Posts: 2,085
Yes alternative energy could be the "next big thing". Here's a good question:

1) look at the S&P 500- which companies in it look to be able to profit from an investment in alternative energy?

2) look at a wilshire 5000/ TSM fund and see if any alternative energy funds are found there.

My take- more than likely few companies are in the S&P 500 which represent this sector, so wilshire 4500 or wilshire 5000 is where to be if you index.

The tech bubble, I have read, was 50-75% due to the increase in Microsoft, Dell, Intel, Oracle, Cisco and a few other key tech firms. Meaning the increase in market cap of these 5-10 companies accounted for 50-75% of the gain of the S&P 500.

Alternative energy, or a similar bubble, will probably be concentrated as well. Find the companies now, while their market cap is low.
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. One person's stupidity is another person's job security.
jIMOh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 06:21 PM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,196
Quote:
Then I saw this:
That was neat -- looks like the turbine rotated clockwise (looking from the top) until one of the blades hit the tower.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2008, 06:52 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
My DD, who works for a VC, passed me the Singularity book. I agree that we will see results in AE development in the next 10 years, hopefully sooner. When I look at what oil companies have not done in the last 10 years I suspect that they saw this demand push-pull coming and were of the opinion that there was no way demand for gasoline could be produced at a cost-effective level long term. Societally, the best way to make the transition to AE is through pricing mechanisms - high gas and oil prices, but it will be tough for many households.

The early AE adapters will pay a premium, a few years later AE will shake out and the more effective methods will be available at a lower cost per Jule, a few years after that it will be in common use.

I think that shortly we will see results in bio-science for energy production, engineering for solar power and energy storage. Lately I have seen trucks going down I-5 with parts of wind generation systems.

Pay attention to what electric power companies are sweating.. companies leasing rooftops for solar to take advantage of tax incentives. I really wish the need for tax incentives would go away because it is distorting the operation of the market.

I am rambling so need to shut up.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2008, 03:14 PM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Yeah, unless you're a bird, what's the diff?

Actually I'm a fan of wind generated power and purchase it through our electric company. I always though I would love to have one of those big towers on my back 40 (OK, my back 3...). Then I saw this:

Maybe not..
We had several out in my part of the swamp in the 70's - one guy tryed it three times/two different propeller styles before he conceeded 'it's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.'

Of course this time it's different. Smarter brand of engineer's this generation.

?Evolution not revolution?

heh heh heh - Progress. .
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2008, 10:41 AM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,913
I agree that we will be going through an evolution. Husband and I were going through old family photos, great grandparents used a horse and buggy. Consider for a moment how fast the auto became the mode of transportation - and they needed to create a manufacturing process. This transformation will happen much quicker.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2008, 11:01 AM   #58
Recycles dryer sheets
mark500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 146
AE will be the driving force that will spawn an entirely new international industry.

It's deja vu all over again. Lol. Doesn't anyone remember Jimmy Carter and the 1970's?
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill
mark500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2008, 11:04 AM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Finance Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by jIMOh View Post
The tech bubble, I have read, was 50-75% due to the increase in Microsoft, Dell, Intel, Oracle, Cisco and a few other key tech firms. Meaning the increase in market cap of these 5-10 companies accounted for 50-75% of the gain of the S&P 500.

Alternative energy, or a similar bubble, will probably be concentrated as well. Find the companies now, while their market cap is low.
Yes, but be careful. If you invest in one of the players who doesn't make it, you lose everything. The trick is picking the BEST company(ies).
__________________
Finance Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2008, 11:16 AM   #60
Full time employment: Posting here.
Helena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 597
The planet needs space solar generated electricity
which will provide clean and unlimited electricity not
only for electric cars but also for desalination [the
world is quickly running out of oil and fresh water.]

If NASA can't develop and perfect a space solar
energy project on its own, then it needs to team up
with the ESA and Russia [NASA already works with
the ESA on SOHO and Russia on the ISS.]

I asked my brother, who is one of NASA's few remaining
Apollo era scientists, about space solar, and he said:
" Initially developing space solar would be quite expensive,
but the $$$ spent on the war in Iraq would be a start."

I say: Make space solar energy, not war !!
__________________

__________________
Helena is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
energy


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
And the Stock Market goes up?? Can you say disconnect? newguy88 Other topics 20 02-27-2008 05:28 PM
New Year Stock Market James5v Stock Picking and Market Strategy 18 01-15-2008 04:57 PM
Hmm, stock market or Money Market/CD? Moneycoming Stock Picking and Market Strategy 4 08-14-2007 07:41 PM
Stock Market Danny Other topics 14 05-19-2006 03:32 PM
Future of stock market jimhcom FIRE and Money 45 07-13-2005 04:19 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:45 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.