All done and living off rental income

[Fedup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Reader It's not the credit cards specifically that matter. The mail I received was a symptom of the greater problem. It's that "retired" is viewed negatively by financial institutions. The income of "retired" applicants is evaluated differently and different products are sold to them. Mortgage underwriters look at you differently. The mortgage broker said my application would get a much more detailed review with a much greater chance of the loan being turned down because the lending standards consider the source of income.

I agree, this is why my husband and I bought our retirement 3-4 years before we actually retired.


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[cyber888]

LOL. Haha. That's funn DValley..

I looked into Franchise restaurants as well, and DW said "NO".

Rental properties
Well, if I bought a townhouse for $125K cash, rented it out for $1,000/month (the rate in my area is probably $850-$1000/month for a 2 bedroom apartment), I'll pay for HOA ($150), pay for any maintenance ($100), pay $100 (10% for agent who finds renters). I will net about $650/month. And that 'net' does not include home insurance and real estate taxes on the property, and personal income tax for rental income. I'll probably net $450-500/month at most after taxes and insurance. And my $125K is not liquid.

Right now, I have $125K earning $720/month in dividend income, mostly from tax-exempt bond funds. And if I really need it, I could sell the funds for cash right away. I'm sticking with tax-free dividends if possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvalley @MrLoco- same here because of all the negativity from people who've never owned [insert idea] them. I looked into fast food franchises after talking to someone who's a multi millionaire and has done nothing but owned 10 franchise restaurants. The Internet said 'no you'll lose your shirt' so I crawled back under my rock lol Then I asked about rental properties, the Internet said 'you're out of your friggn mind' and I crawled back under my rock again. One day I'll do something that I want to do no matter what the Internet has to say...

[calmloki]

I enjoy telling people I fix toilets for a living. Credit card companies tend to require a review for new cards, which is entertaining. Haven't been denied a card yet.

[SAtoUS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator It is near impossible to make money on a SFH. A 4-plex gives you the advantage of a 30-year fix mortgage. A unit with a larger number of doors gives you a lower cost per door. There are a lot of options here. Buying on your own, buying with a syndicate, REIT, etc. A true commercial property is easier, once you have tenants. If you lose tenants, it may take several months to get another one if you are in the retail arena. If you own a trailer park, self-storage, cold storage, etc., it's easier too, but I have never owned this type of venture. I looked a several franchises and businesses myself. A vending machine route, laundromat, tanning salon, a hair cutting place and a check cashing place. A laundromat and a check cashing place were the most promising. The vending is great too, but I decided against it.

Agree. It also takes a loooong time, to get to 25 doors like Senator/ or a few commercial properties (15 years in my case)/ or other forms of passive income. Folks also have to remember, when you have income properties, you don't pay the same amount of income tax on 'that' income from you rents received. Let me try to explain.

You file your Form 1040, and by the time you are done with line 23e (the total of all your expenses) your final 'income' is waaaay lower than any other income.

For example: Let's say you have 500k in the market (IRA, bonds, stocks, whatever), you get 5% a year return, that's $25k/ year. You pay income tax (of course your income bracket and so on will have to be taken into account too) but the point is... that $25k gets taxed as INCOME, period... Now,if you invest that same $500k in income property and get $25k a year from rental income on that, you can legally deduct things like:

- Advertising
- cleaning
- commission
- insurance
- legal fees
- management fees
- repairs
- property tax
- utilities
- depreciation expense (a good one but read up about this one and make sure you understand it)

So by the time you are done with all your LEGAL expenses, you deduct that from your $25k rental income... and end up with let's say, $8k (or less)... you then pay income tax on only THAT $8k... get it?

It's a beautiful thing. You have to have extra cash on hand for when it's sitting empty of course too.

If you play with the big boys, you could win and win big like F-22 Raptor Captain Senator and Super Hornet Captain SAtoUS, but be careful, you could also end up on the street. I think the key is to do it over time. One door as a time.

Also, nothing is easy. I've been working since I was 8. I've worked every single school holiday my entire life, when all my friends were having 'a break from school', I was working. I worked 2-3 jobs at University too. I've worked 60 hours a week from age 20 to about age 40. My cars are all 12 years old. I like nice things, but only buy what I need. I have penciled out what I now have a long time ago.

Life is good, requesting permission for flyby.

[rayinpenn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Reader It's not the credit cards specifically that matter. The mail I received was a symptom of the greater problem. It's that "retired" is viewed negatively by financial institutions. The income of "retired" applicants is evaluated differently and different products are sold to them.

I don't care what financial institutions think about me..Many are a scourge on our nation. My vision of retirement is a debt free one. Yes we use credit cards but only to get rewards - we never carry a balance. If chase ever looked at their profitably on us they would ask for their card back.

My friend's 23 year old son has worked one year for our firm since he graduated. Unsolicited his credit card company just upped his limit to $10k. I believe this should be illegal. Credit cards for all too many are like heroine laced quick sand. The average balance in America for people who carry a cc balance is $15 grand. That's 3 grand a year in interest.. Funny but if you saved that three grand each year, invested it, I'll bet after 18 years you could fund a state university education.

The financial institutions fight over the credit addicts too.. Why do you think they advertise 12 months no interest on balance transfers? The desperate will jump at that offer and they too will sucked into 'the sand'.

No my goal has been to get financial institutions out of our lives ...so far so good.

My occupation at retirement: Senior Portfolio Manager.


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[SAtoUS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayinpenn I don't care what financial institutions think about me..Many are a scourge on our nation. My vision of retirement is a debt free one. Yes we use credit cards but only to get rewards - we never carry a balance. If chase ever looked at their profitably on us they would ask for their card back. My friend's 23 year old son has worked one year for our firm since he graduated. Unsolicited his credit card company just upped his limit to $10k. I believe this should be illegal. Credit cards for all too many are like heroine laced quick sand. The average balance in America for people who carry a cc balance is $15 grand. That's 3 grand a year in interest.. Funny but if you saved that three grand each year, invested it, I'll bet after 18 years you could fund a state university education. The financial institutions fight over the credit addicts too.. Why do you think they advertise 12 months no interest on balance transfers? The desperate will jump at that offer and they too will sucked into 'the sand'. No my goal has been to get financial institutions out of our lives ...so far so good. My occupation at retirement: Senior Portfolio Manager. Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree w u here. 'I believe this should be illegal'... lol... illegal??... if you are an adult and you make choices like a child, then the Credit Card Companies are to blame, really?

Do you want fries with that? Do you want to Super Size that for $1 more? If you are stupid to eat there in the first place, then why not, Super Size your disgusting meal while you've at it. Why not? Make sure you get that super size soda with 4 spoons of sugar in it too. Most people are fat, but it's the fast food companies that made 'em fat? Like it's the credit card industry that made people owing 'em money?

My credit card limit on my ONLY card is $100k. My credit score is 810. I never carry a balance and never have.

Think like an adult, act like an adult and the world will treat you like one. If you are 23 years old with a University degree too, you have a $10k limit and u use it, my two cents would be that you need to go back to grade 8.

[Another Reader]

Credit card issuers divide the market into two groups, transactors and borrowers. They make money on transaction fees for transactors like you and me. They buy our business by rebating a percentage as points or cash back. They also sell our information to their "partners" who use it to market other products to us. So Chase is very happy to make a profit on you and won't be asking for their card back anytime soon.

[SAtoUS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Reader Credit card issuers divide the market into two groups, transactors and borrowers. They make money on transaction fees for transactors like you and me. They buy our business by rebating a percentage as points or cash back. They also sell our information to their "partners" who use it to market other products to us. So Chase is very happy to make a profit on you and won't be asking for their card back anytime soon.

Very true. You want to be a transactor or borrower. You want to eat fast food or you want to eat healthy. You want to smoke or you don't. You want to live within your means and retire early, or you don't. It's that simple.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber888 Right now, I have $125K earning $720/month in dividend income, mostly from tax-exempt bond funds. And if I really need it, I could sell the funds for cash right away. I'm sticking with tax-free dividends if possible.

I calculate that as almost 7% return. How do you do that? Or did I calculate the return of $8,640 annually on $125,000 incorrectly?

[rayinpenn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAtoUS I'm sorry, but I have to disagree w u here. 'I believe this should be illegal'... lol... illegal??... if you are an adult and you make choices like a child, then the Credit Card Companies are to blame, really?

Yes really - Think Big Picture...50% aren't saving for retirement but they sure can vote. Who's pile will they be looking at? I'll tell you yours and mine. We can't make people make the right financial decisions but we can help them with the traps. Sorry but we can't bury our heads in the sand and say "they should be responsible" LOL

So you don't remember the last credit crisis? People by the boat load bought homes they couldn't afford - and when it blew up do you think only the financially irresponsible took it on the chin? Sorry many hard working people lost thousands...

Better education
Laws to encourage saving
Laws to discourage unsolicited credit proliferation

Yes Really!



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[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAtoUS Agree. It also takes a loooong time, to get to 25 doors like Senator/ or a few commercial properties (15 years in my case)/ or other forms of passive income. Folks also have to remember, when you have income properties, you don't pay the same amount of income tax on 'that' income from you rents received. Let me try to explain. You file your Form 1040, and by the time you are done with line 23e (the total of all your expenses) your final 'income' is waaaay lower than any other income. For example: Let's say you have 500k in the market (IRA, bonds, stocks, whatever), you get 5% a year return, that's $25k/ year. You pay income tax (of course your income bracket and so on will have to be taken into account too) but the point is... that $25k gets taxed as INCOME, period... Now,if you invest that same $500k in income property and get $25k a year from rental income on that, you can legally deduct things like: - Advertising - cleaning - commission - insurance - legal fees - management fees - repairs - property tax - utilities - depreciation expense (a good one but read up about this one and make sure you understand it) So by the time you are done with all your LEGAL expenses, you deduct that from your $25k rental income... and end up with let's say, $8k (or less)... you then pay income tax on only THAT $8k... get it?

If you have all those expenses, then aren't you making only $8K, not $25K?

I know depreciation is not an out of pocket expense, but it reduces your basis so eventually you'll pay for that.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber888 Rental properties Well, if I bought a townhouse for $125K cash, rented it out for $1,000/month (the rate in my area is probably $850-$1000/month for a 2 bedroom apartment), I'll pay for HOA ($150), pay for any maintenance ($100), pay $100 (10% for agent who finds renters). I will net about $650/month. And that 'net' does not include home insurance and real estate taxes on the property, and personal income tax for rental income. I'll probably net $450-500/month at most after taxes and insurance. And my $125K is not liquid.

That is where most people go wrong. Buy that same place for $65K as a fixer upper. Put $20K into it, and start making money. Those deals are not available every day, nor are they always available for a mortgage, but they are there is you look.

That is the difference between a real estate investor, and a real estate buyer.

[Livefree]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum If you have all those expenses, then aren't you making only $8K, not $25K? I know depreciation is not an out of pocket expense, but it reduces your basis so eventually you'll pay for that.

No I think he's saying the 25k is net income AFTER paying those expenses.

[jkern]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator That is where most people go wrong. Buy that same place for $65K as a fixer upper. Put $20K into it, and start making money. Those deals are not available every day, nor are they always available for a mortgage, but they are there is you look. That is the difference between a real estate investor, and a real estate buyer.

You may be lucky to find these deals where you are, but where I am they are either non existent or the proverbial needle in a haystack. There is very little incentive for a seller to sell at below market value when almost all sales garner multiple offers at market value.

[SAtoUS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkern You may be lucky to find these deals where you are, but where I am they are either non existent or the proverbial needle in a haystack. There is very little incentive for a seller to sell at below market value when almost all sales garner multiple offers at market value.

Can't you travel? Buy something in a different state.

[movingrightalong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by check6 i am here to tell you it does not get you anywhere.

hahahahahahha!

[Letj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAtoUS I'm sorry, but I have to disagree w u here. 'I believe this should be illegal'... lol... illegal??... if you are an adult and you make choices like a child, then the Credit Card Companies are to blame, really? Do you want fries with that? Do you want to Super Size that for $1 more? If you are stupid to eat there in the first place, then why not, Super Size your disgusting meal while you've at it. Why not? Make sure you get that super size soda with 4 spoons of sugar in it too. Most people are fat, but it's the fast food companies that made 'em fat? Like it's the credit card industry that made people owing 'em money? My credit card limit on my ONLY card is $100k. My credit score is 810. I never carry a balance and never have. Think like an adult, act like an adult and the world will treat you like one. If you are 23 years old with a University degree too, you have a $10k limit and u use it, my two cents would be that you need to go back to grade 8.

Don't underestimate how stupid many people are and the impact upbringing has on one's life. Most children learn by mimicry and grow up to be adults who just repeat the behaviors they see. Sometimes it takes going away to college or exposure to a different environment for them to learn or realize the errors of their ways.


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[kgtest]

when retired and people ask I will respond, I manage our family's money.

True, and true.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkern You may be lucky to find these deals where you are, but where I am they are either non existent or the proverbial needle in a haystack. There is very little incentive for a seller to sell at below market value when almost all sales garner multiple offers at market value.

There are deals everywhere. Investors are finding them. As long as there are divorces, deaths, landlords that think they know how to be a landlord, there will be deals or distressed properties. It may be 1 in 100, and competition to find and procure them, but they are out there.

You need to buy downtrodden properties, in the pre-foreclosure status. If there are flippers, there are deals.

Send letters out to people in the public notices of foreclosure status. Put out bandit signs. Find a bird-dogger. Buy a non-performing note and foreclose. Send letters to families listed in the obituaries. Do some door knocking on homes that are unkempt. I once paid a woman $4,000 to put a $150 mechanics lien on her home, and made over $50K in two months that was split with a partner.

The best deals generally require all cash. Plus fix up cash. Sometimes are sight unseen. They may require cash, even if you do not get the property. There is also some risk involved.

But there are deals out there.

[l8_apex]

To SA - congrats. I too am 47 and planning to retire this year via rental properties. I don't have nearly the cash flow as you but my projections seem to be reasonable...

I don't find being a landlord to be particularly pleasant, but it sure beats being stuck in a cubicle M-F 8-5. As Senator just pointed out - nobody should expect this to be easy, but real estate has been and continues to be a viable way to amass wealth and more importantly, passive income.