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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-29-2006, 08:41 PM   #61
 
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

On fluorescents.

- I don't care for the light in most rooms. That said, I use them in the garage and in my workshop. I have not had to change a bulb in 7 years! I got a bad batch at Home Depot of 100 watt equiv. fluorescents. They actually all quit working within a couple months. I took them back (I saved the receipt). I still use the regular bulbs in the rest of the house. I find the light a little more pleasing.

Talk about ramping up to full light, the ones in my Garage - when it's 20 below zero - actually take about 5 minutes to come to full brightness.
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-29-2006, 09:14 PM   #62
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

A good page for technical but understandable info on various light bulbs is:

http://members.misty.com/don/bulb1.html

He addresses the issue of high currents at turn on thusly:

It is fairly well known that a cold light bulb filament has less resistance than a hot one. Therefore, a light bulb draws excessive current until the filament warms up.
Since the filament can draw more than ten times as much current as usual when it is cold, some people are concerned about excessive energy consumption from turning on light bulbs.* The degree of this phenomenon has become a matter of urban folklore. However, the filament warms up very rapidly. The amount of energy consumed to warm up a cold filament is less than it would consume in one second of normal operation.
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-29-2006, 11:28 PM   #63
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Talk about ramping up to full light, the ones in my Garage - when it's 20 below zero - actually take about 5 minutes to come to full brightness.
Hunh, I don't have that problem here-- I think your garage is in the wrong climate!
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 04:50 AM   #64
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

normal flourescents wont ignite well below 50 degrees or reach full brighness....they do however make outdoor rated ones.they ignite just fine..they use an electronic ballast ...only problem i have with florescents is except for the latest t5 t8 styles they all lose more and more brightness for every 2nd they are on....they get dimmer and dimmer over the life of the lamp and since because of the color spectrum given off by flourescents they never have the apparent brightness of other sources right from the get go....even when new they appear dimmer
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 07:55 AM   #65
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

in order of efficiancy heres the order

incandescent-worst


quartz or halogen better but still not great efficiancy,,,alot of heat

flourecent -poor color unless expensive color correct lamps are used......poor cold starting,,,,,,only good to 50 degrees unless rated for 0 degrees

mercury vapor /metal halide the beginning of real efficiant lighting.......metal halide has excellent color,,,,can not be turned on and off quickly for room lighting,better for outdoor or warehouse


hi pressure sodium --yellow cast to light but highly efficiant

low pressure sodium-----very very poor color the most efficiant lighting...hard to find as its very difficult to dispose of old lamps..broken lamps in a dumpster can have loose sodium rect with water and start fire,,,
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:15 AM   #66
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
in order of efficiancy heres the order

incandescent-worst


quartz or halogen* *better but still not great efficiancy,,,alot of heat

flourecent* *-poor color unless expensive color correct lamps are used......poor cold starting,,,,,,only good to 50 degrees unless rated for 0 degrees

mercury vapor /metal halide* * the beginning of real efficiant lighting.......metal halide has excellent color,,,,can not be turned on and off quickly for room lighting,better for outdoor or warehouse


hi pressure sodium* *--yellow cast to light but highly efficiant

low pressure sodium-----very very poor color* *the most efficiant lighting...hard to find as its very difficult to dispose of old lamps..broken lamps in a dumpster can have loose sodium rect with water and start fire,,,

What is mercury vapor / metal halide I have never heard of them

What are hi pressure sodium and low presser sodium bulbs and where do you find them

We use the sprial florescent ones in most of our fixtures

Kathyet
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:19 AM   #67
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat


Talk about ramping up to full light, the ones in my Garage - when it's 20 below zero - actually take about 5 minutes to come to full brightness.
We have one on our front porch and it never gets up to full brightness in the winter.

In the back for our building we have a high pressure sodium light. It does have a yellow cast, but that is just fine for outside. Sometimes it hums a bit. I think it has been out there for about 7 years, on automatically when it is dark. On very dark days it may stay on.
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:27 AM   #68
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathyet

What is mercury vapor / metal halide I have never heard of them

What are hi pressure sodium and low presser sodium bulbs and where do you find them

We use the sprial florescent ones in most of our fixtures

Kathyet
mercury vapor is almost obsolete but metal halide is a very efficiant light source used in outdoor lighting...wattages range from 50 watts or so up to 1,000 watt...they require special ballasts and fixtures..they can run from 60 bucks or so up to a few hundred.......the energy consumed is very low and they usually pay for them selves very quicly up here at .20 per kw you can see these in street lights

hi pressure sodium is the same as above..it gives off a yellow cast,,,some street and highway lighting are prime examples...if color isnt important and you just want to light up the yard this is the best option...
some examples can be seen at the site below
http://www.rabweb.com/products.htm
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:30 AM   #69
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

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Originally Posted by Martha
We have one on our front porch and it never gets up to full brightness in the winter.*

In the back for our building we have a high pressure sodium light.* It does have a yellow cast, but that is just fine for outside.* Sometimes it hums a bit.* I think it has been out there for about 7 years, on automatically when it is dark.* On very dark days it may stay on.*
if it hums teach it the words.............
actually the hum is normal ,there is a ballast in there made up of layers of iron layed on top of each other....the cheaper the fixture usually the cheaper the ballast and it vibrates
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:37 AM   #70
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

mathjak, we have an old light post in the front of our property shown in this picture:



There is no on or off switch for this light. Greg took out the bulb because he didn't like the light on all day. Do you know of any relatively simple solutions so we can have the light go on only in the dark? We tried screwing into the light socket a thingy that will turn the light on when it is dark. But the thingy thought is was always dark.
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:45 AM   #71
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

you could just use a timer to turn it on and off..more sophisticated timers even adjust for daylite savings time......you could also have an electrician drill a hole in the pole and mount a little button photocell...end of problem....your husband can even do it,its simple enough
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:54 AM   #72
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

http://precisionmulticontrols.com/Ph...s/Aseries.html example of a button photocell
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 08:56 AM   #73
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
Thanks!
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 10:51 AM   #74
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Had local utility do a blower door test to properly size HVAC. Replaced 20 yo furnace and ac with heat pump and back up furnace. Sizing took me from 120k btu furncae to 40k-70k btu furnace(2 stage with VSR motor) and dropped 1/2 ton in ac size. Utility bills throught the winter here were reduced by about 20%
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 11:01 AM   #75
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

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Downsizing home to one of these,

http://www.inhabitat.com/prefabhousing.php

with solar power, a wind turbine, and a well.

Funny that the second picture down is of a Lustron prefab all steel home. They built many of these across the country after WWII and can be a pain to work on, insulate, sell and insure. Our town has 5-6 of them. Interesting concept but bad practice.
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 11:03 AM   #76
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Quote:
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mathjak, we have an old light post in the front of our property shown in this picture:
There is no on or off switch for this light.
This would drive my inner engineer crazy. *

I'd be tracing wires all the way back to the breaker panel and adding a switch, or I'd be checking every seldom-used lightswitch in the house with a test bulb. *And, yes, I've done the latter in our house-- those three-way switches to just one of a two-receptacle outlet are pretty tricky...
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 11:43 AM   #77
 
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

Driving More Slowly:

I've started driving more slowly.* Cut 5 MPH off your speed, and it's like getting a price break of 20 cents per gallon.

Below is a chart showing that it doesn't help much to slow to less than 55:

It's 25 miles to town.* If I drive at 55 instead of 65 it takes 27 minutes instead of 23 minutes.* That is, it takes four minutes longer.* *A little more relaxing, slightly less chance of a serious accident.* We get around 40-42 MPG.

Guess I'm officially an old geezer now.

I don't always drive at 55, but I rarely go 68 which used to be my normal speed.* Nice not to get nervous each time I see a cop.

Main disadvantage is that you get some people driving up to you at 70 MPH and passing at the last minute.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FuelEfficiencyVsSpeed.jpg (6.5 KB, 111 views)
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 11:47 AM   #78
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

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I've started driving more slowly.* Cut 5 MPH off your speed, and it's like getting a price break of 20 cents per gallon.
Guess I'm officially an old geezer now.
Good thing, too, because according to the life-expectancy calculators you're gonna live a lot longer!
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 11:56 AM   #79
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

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Main disadvantage is that you get some people driving up to you at 70 MPH and passing at the last minute.
Sorry.

I have been driving back and forth to Minneapolis a lot, about 150 miles one way. The diesel Jetta gets really good mileage, easily 50 mph. But if I went 60 or 65 I am sure I would do better than going 85.


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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"
Old 04-30-2006, 01:11 PM   #80
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Re: Alternative, Reduced Expense "Investments"

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This would drive my inner engineer crazy. *

I'd be tracing wires all the way back to the breaker panel and adding a switch, or I'd be checking every seldom-used lightswitch in the house with a test bulb. *And, yes, I've done the latter in our house-- those three-way switches to just one of a two-receptacle outlet are pretty tricky...

let me tell you im a motor control specialist and do all kinds of complex control circuitry but i got to tell you,i once but a 4-way swich in my house in conjunction with 2-3 way switches.talk about a rubics cube
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