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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-20-2006, 01:05 PM   #21
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Re: Am I a Miser?

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Originally Posted by SteveR
Being a Miser to one person is being a spendthrift to another.

It is all about what works for you.* If you have an emotional need to hoard money and feel guilty or sick when you spend it, then perhaps you need some "adjustment" in your thinking about money.*


Money is a tool; it is the means to live the way you want and not the reason to live.* Once you have enough....you have enough.*

If you feel the need to hoard money then you may have a deeper emotional need that is not being met in other areas of your life.* Get a hobby that will allow you to hoard things like coins or stamps or baseball cards; then maybe you will be less obsessed about hoarding money.
Steve, I think your posts are usually right on. But IMO, this is Freudian fraudulent bull. "Once you have enough"... the problem is no one can know this until both his life and the live of those that may legitimately depend on him are over.

The only thing is some people interpret the world differently than others. Those differences are to be respected, not referred for treatment.

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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-20-2006, 01:55 PM   #22
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
Being a Miser to one person is being a spendthrift to another.

It is all about what works for you.*
I think the lense of "what works" is very useful here. If your miserliness is on the whole serving you well then keep it up. If on the whole it's causing you more problems than it solves then it's time to let go.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-20-2006, 09:30 PM   #23
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Re: Am I a Miser?

SteveR:* "It is all about what works for you.* If you have an emotional need to hoard money and feel guilty or sick when you spend it, then perhaps you need some "adjustment" in your thinking about money.*"

It's not guilt so much as worry. I can't imagine a place between spending nothing and spending everything. It springs from a basic insecurity about money. I grew up pretty poor, and it still surprises me to think that I am now almost a millionaire. I haven't assimilated it yet.

And to be honest and disclose all, the bulk of our stash was inherited--so it happened overnight. (I give myself credit for getting rid of all credit card and loan debt prior to the inheritance, though.)

So yeah, I need some adjustment in thinking about money ... I think a vacation from fretting over it would do me a world of good.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 06:27 PM   #24
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Re: Am I a Miser?


I'm the kind of person that is always looking for the downside of things and I found a lot of downsides to having paper wealth. Dating is one area where it can be a real conundrum deciding how spendy to be. You don't want to give your girlfriend the idea that you are a money machine, and especially don't want to attract people who see you that way, so I find myself trying hard to hide my wealth, especially in the beginning stages of the relationship. But meeting women is not something I'm great at doing and wealth does attract. I often end up feeling like I'm being silly hiding my wealth when most men overspend in dating to impress. Sometimes it seems selfish to be somewhat miserly, e.g. by insisting on camping instead of hotel rooms for instance.

And the worry thing is there too... people who don't have wealth don't worry about losing their wealth. It took me a long while to start to trust my wealth; it shot up in the dotcom boom and dropped down a lot soon after. I think it's probably the same kind of thing that housewives go through... they get married and hubby buys a new home for them, but she doesn't know if hubby will leave her for some bimbo and take everything when she gets wrinkly. I have the symmetrical fear: that I will marry a woman and it will end in a divorce that takes my financial independence away.

The other thing that seems really daunting is finding a woman who is compatible financially. If I'm retired at 35 living off my money but have a spouse that continues to work for her expenses, it seems like that would get annoying for her after a while, so I almost feel like I'll have to take the role of provider.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 06:45 PM   #25
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Re: Am I a Miser?

fireme,

Sorry, I haven't followed all of your messages. But would a prenup lessen your concerns?

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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 07:29 PM   #26
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireme
But meeting women is not something I'm great at doing and wealth does attract.
You do not want the kind of women money attracts. Trust me, if you need a prenup to protect you from your bride, you are not doing yourself any favors by marrying.

OK, I had to take a hot bath and brood over the wisdom of adding the second part of this response. After all, I have my own weird obsession with wealth, as this thread attests.

But I have to say it: Marriage is not a my money/your money situation. It is an "our money" proposition. Yes, I think if my husband retired at age 35 and I had to get up every morning and pull on my hard hat and work boots and tippy-toe out of the room while he lay wrapped in cosy, peaceful slumber, I would be unhappy with that situation. I think if he said, "Well, dear, as soon as you save up YOUR $1.75 million dollars, you can retire too" I would be even more unhappy. I don't think most women with self-respect would consider a marriage with a prenup; women who would consider the prenup who have an ounce of brains will figure out some way to undo it.

Marriage is a partnership. Pick a partner who shares your values and your work ethic, work until you can both retire, then enjoy your retirement together. Or consider not marrying and enjoying relationships that are not legally binding.

Just my opinion, and meant in a friendly way.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 08:12 PM   #27
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Re: Am I a Miser?

The part that really ticks me off - I had more women meet me as a grey haired old phart in a little old rusty pickup with a Golden Retriever in the back - than I ever did in my twenties with my red Jaguar sports car.

Little tongue in cheek - and a little truth.

BTY - when I got into my late twenties and later 'frugal mode.':

I always took - "You cheap bastard." - as a complement and a badge of honor. "you can't take it with you" and "tight SOB" were always cool too.

heh heh heh heh

For 29 years me and the SO didn't leave any experiences/travel/items not tryed on the table - so the cache wasn't totally true but I did keep up appearances.

She did threaten to bang me with a cast iron frying pan in my sleep if I ever tryed to repeat my all time personal(never to be repeated) 12k/yr ER budget. But that was in the 90's.

I don't like money. I tend to view my investments as production pieces engineered to produce a div/interest product. It's a background thing. Cap gains, slice and dice, etc - are just replacing means of production.

Miser is ok. But I favor cheap SOB.

Used dryer sheet anyone??

heh heh heh heh heh

Football tomorrow - ??Seattle/Denver?? - no bets - I can never pick markets or football. Cheap was fun though.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 08:20 PM   #28
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Re: Am I a Miser?

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Originally Posted by unclemick2
Miser is ok. But I favor cheap SOB.
OK, you cheap , you gonna get that Norwegian widow to spring for that cruise you were talking about a while back? Or does that statement above still apply?

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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 08:36 PM   #29
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Yep

Gonna cruise - trying to turn over a new leaf.

But the 'keeping up appearances' part is tempted to wear my bought on sale Bib overalls - to fire for effect so to speak.

Of course - I still have a few Jimmy Buffett Aloha type shirts and shorts/cutoff's( saved from New Orleans) - if the coveralls lay an egg.

May be trying to lighten up on cheap - but still a lefthanded INTJ after all these years.

heh heh heh
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 08:42 PM   #30
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Re: Am I a Miser?

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Originally Posted by unclemick2
Yep

Gonna cruise - trying to turn over a new leaf.

But the 'keeping up appearances' part is tempted to wear my bought on sale Bib overalls - to fire for effect so to speak.
Good on ya. But if you do decide to wear those Oshkosh b'Gosh overhauls, the only thing you're gonna be shooting is yourself...in the foot.

Dress for a trip to Margaritaville...

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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 09:25 PM   #31
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Re: Am I a Miser?

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Football tomorrow - ??Seattle/Denver?? - no bets - I can never pick markets or football. Cheap was fun though.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 09:45 PM   #32
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Re: Am I a Miser?

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Originally Posted by LRS
I don't think most women with self-respect would consider a marriage with a prenup; women who would consider the prenup who have an ounce of brains will figure out some way to undo it.
This thread spurred me to do some websurfing on prenups. Most articles seem to echo the theme that as men and women are becoming more and more equal in society, prenups are becoming more and more socially acceptable.

Prenups shouldn't be one sided; they are typically done with both sides having lawyers. In the absence of a prenup it ends up being the state that decides what your marital contract is. It makes sense to me to come up with our marital contract ourselves rather than letting the state do it. The more I read the more it sounds like a good process. If nothing else it forces a discussion of financial issues that should be discussed before entering into marriage. And should give both parties the security of knowing what they are getting themselves into rather than waiting for a legal battle upon divorce to know.

But even in the absence of a prenup, I think it's generally the case that assets I own before marriage remain mine after the marriage. The devil is in the details though... for instance is interest earned considered community property b/c it came in during the marriage, or pre-existing property since it was from the assets I owned before the marriage.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 10:03 PM   #33
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Re: Am I a Miser?

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I agree.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 11:29 PM   #34
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Re: Am I a Miser?

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I just have to plunk money into our Roth IRAs or our 457(b) for the next 4.11 years and then retire. It's almost not fun anymore
457 plan means you will be getting a gov't pension, also, right? By all means, no need to hoard then! Your downside and backside are covered.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-21-2006, 11:31 PM   #35
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireme
Most articles seem to echo the theme that as men and women are becoming more and more equal in society, prenups are becoming more and more socially acceptable.
"This article has been brought to you by the Lawyer's Prenup Association."

Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary. *I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one. *When you meet the right person to spend the rest of your life with, there won't be any doubts. *You'll be accused of insanity, incompetence, and excess hormones-- but there won't be any personal doubts.

We've had quite a few spirited reciprocated diatribes on the prenup topic. *(Search the threads for that keyword.) *My personal opinion is that a prenup is a great tool for protecting family-- like kids from a first marriage or a family business. *However if asset protection is more important to you than the person you're about to marry... then you probably need to continue the search.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-22-2006, 12:05 AM   #36
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
"This article has been brought to you by the Lawyer's Prenup Association."

Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary. *I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one. *When you meet the right person to spend the rest of your life with, there won't be any doubts. *You'll be accused of insanity, incompetence, and excess hormones-- but there won't be any personal doubts.

We've had quite a few spirited reciprocated diatribes on the prenup topic. *(Search the threads for that keyword.) *My personal opinion is that a prenup is a great tool for protecting family-- like kids from a first marriage or a family business. *However if asset protection is more important to you than the person you're about to marry... then you probably need to continue the search.
I could not agree more!

I remarried a year and a half ago at age 52 with a sizeable stash to my name. My intended asked me about a prenup and I told her that if I felt I needed one then we should not get married. I did not do one and I am glad of it. However, we both have grown kids from previous marriages and we both want some assets of ours individually to go to them so we set up separate trusts to take care of that. The trust amount go to the surviving spouse first for their use and then to the respective kids. We want to take care of US first and then the kids after we are gone.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-22-2006, 12:41 AM   #37
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary. *I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one.
I can understand that attitude from a marriage veteran, but I'm also sure that if I ask the 50% whose marriage ends in divorce they will disagree with the premise that "finding the right person" ensures a happy lifelong marriage.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-22-2006, 12:53 AM   #38
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Re: Am I a Miser?

You're right. Marriage is a perilous venture. However, a prenup is sort of like betting that a marriage will fail. Not an auspicious way to begin.
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-22-2006, 06:21 AM   #39
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LRS
You're right. Marriage is a perilous venture. However, a prenup is sort of like betting that a marriage will fail. Not an auspicious way to begin.
Well it may not be auspicious but with a 50% divovce rate for the first marriage and increaseing with each succeding marriage, it may be prudent.

"Marriage is very much like a violin; after the sweet music is over, the strings are attached."

"A second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience." -
-- Samuel Johnson
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Re: Am I a Miser?
Old 01-22-2006, 07:55 AM   #40
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Re: Am I a Miser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords


Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary. *I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one. *When you meet the right person to spend the rest of your life with, there won't be any doubts. *
Nords: "My wife and I never go to bed mad.
We stay up all night and fight it out."

"Shecky Green", circa l965.

Pretty good advice.
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