Am I a Miser?

[LRS]

But meeting women is not something I'm great at doing and wealth does attract.

You do not want the kind of women money attracts. Trust me, if you need a prenup to protect you from your bride, you are not doing yourself any favors by marrying.

OK, I had to take a hot bath and brood over the wisdom of adding the second part of this response. After all, I have my own weird obsession with wealth, as this thread attests.

But I have to say it: Marriage is not a my money/your money situation. It is an "our money" proposition. Yes, I think if my husband retired at age 35 and I had to get up every morning and pull on my hard hat and work boots and tippy-toe out of the room while he lay wrapped in cosy, peaceful slumber, I would be unhappy with that situation. I think if he said, "Well, dear, as soon as you save up YOUR $1.75 million dollars, you can retire too" I would be even more unhappy. I don't think most women with self-respect would consider a marriage with a prenup; women who would consider the prenup who have an ounce of brains will figure out some way to undo it.

Marriage is a partnership. Pick a partner who shares your values and your work ethic, work until you can both retire, then enjoy your retirement together. Or consider not marrying and enjoying relationships that are not legally binding.

Just my opinion, and meant in a friendly way.

 

[unclemick]

The part that really ticks me off - I had more women meet me as a grey haired old phart in a little old rusty pickup with a Golden Retriever in the back - than I ever did in my twenties with my red Jaguar sports car.

Little tongue in cheek - and a little truth.

BTY - when I got into my late twenties and later 'frugal mode.':

I always took - "You cheap bastard." - as a complement and a badge of honor. "you can't take it with you" and "tight SOB" were always cool too.

heh heh heh heh

For 29 years me and the SO didn't leave any experiences/travel/items not tryed on the table - so the cache wasn't totally true but I did keep up appearances.

She did threaten to bang me with a cast iron frying pan in my sleep if I ever tryed to repeat my all time personal(never to be repeated) 12k/yr ER budget. But that was in the 90's.

I don't like money. I tend to view my investments as production pieces engineered to produce a div/interest product. It's a background thing. Cap gains, slice and dice, etc - are just replacing means of production.

Miser is ok. But I favor cheap SOB.

Used dryer sheet anyone??

heh heh heh heh heh

Football tomorrow - ??Seattle/Denver?? - no bets - I can never pick markets or football. Cheap was fun though.

 

[REWahoo]

Miser is ok. But I favor cheap SOB.

OK, you cheap , you gonna get that Norwegian widow to spring for that cruise you were talking about a while back? Or does that statement above still apply?

 

[unclemick]

Yep

Gonna cruise - trying to turn over a new leaf.

But the 'keeping up appearances' part is tempted to wear my bought on sale Bib overalls - to fire for effect so to speak.

Of course - I still have a few Jimmy Buffett Aloha type shirts and shorts/cutoff's( saved from New Orleans) - if the coveralls lay an egg.

May be trying to lighten up on cheap - but still a lefthanded INTJ after all these years.

heh heh heh

 

[REWahoo]

Yep

Gonna cruise - trying to turn over a new leaf.

But the 'keeping up appearances' part is tempted to wear my bought on sale Bib overalls - to fire for effect so to speak.

Good on ya. But if you do decide to wear those Oshkosh b'Gosh overhauls, the only thing you're gonna be shooting is yourself...in the foot.

Dress for a trip to Margaritaville...

 

[Jarhead*]

Football tomorrow - ??Seattle/Denver?? - no bets - I can never pick markets or football. Cheap was fun though.

Stay away from ReWahoo.

 

[free4now]

I don't think most women with self-respect would consider a marriage with a prenup; women who would consider the prenup who have an ounce of brains will figure out some way to undo it.

This thread spurred me to do some websurfing on prenups. Most articles seem to echo the theme that as men and women are becoming more and more equal in society, prenups are becoming more and more socially acceptable.

Prenups shouldn't be one sided; they are typically done with both sides having lawyers. In the absence of a prenup it ends up being the state that decides what your marital contract is. It makes sense to me to come up with our marital contract ourselves rather than letting the state do it. The more I read the more it sounds like a good process. If nothing else it forces a discussion of financial issues that should be discussed before entering into marriage. And should give both parties the security of knowing what they are getting themselves into rather than waiting for a legal battle upon divorce to know.

But even in the absence of a prenup, I think it's generally the case that assets I own before marriage remain mine after the marriage. The devil is in the details though... for instance is interest earned considered community property b/c it came in during the marriage, or pre-existing property since it was from the assets I owned before the marriage.

 

[Eagle43]

Stay away from ReWahoo.

I agree.
Eagle43 who agrees with Jarhead who agrees with REWahoo, etc.

 

[maddythebeagle]

I just have to plunk money into our Roth IRAs or our 457(b) for the next 4.11 years and then retire. It's almost not fun anymore

457 plan means you will be getting a gov't pension, also, right? By all means, no need to hoard then! Your downside and backside are covered.

 

[Nords]

Most articles seem to echo the theme that as men and women are becoming more and more equal in society, prenups are becoming more and more socially acceptable.

"This article has been brought to you by the Lawyer's Prenup Association."

Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary.  I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one.  When you meet the right person to spend the rest of your life with, there won't be any doubts.  You'll be accused of insanity, incompetence, and excess hormones-- but there won't be any personal doubts.

We've had quite a few spirited reciprocated diatribes on the prenup topic.  (Search the threads for that keyword.)  My personal opinion is that a prenup is a great tool for protecting family-- like kids from a first marriage or a family business.  However if asset protection is more important to you than the person you're about to marry... then you probably need to continue the search.

 

[SteveR]

"This article has been brought to you by the Lawyer's Prenup Association."

Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary.  I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one.  When you meet the right person to spend the rest of your life with, there won't be any doubts.  You'll be accused of insanity, incompetence, and excess hormones-- but there won't be any personal doubts.

We've had quite a few spirited reciprocated diatribes on the prenup topic.  (Search the threads for that keyword.)  My personal opinion is that a prenup is a great tool for protecting family-- like kids from a first marriage or a family business.  However if asset protection is more important to you than the person you're about to marry... then you probably need to continue the search.

I could not agree more!

I remarried a year and a half ago at age 52 with a sizeable stash to my name. My intended asked me about a prenup and I told her that if I felt I needed one then we should not get married. I did not do one and I am glad of it. However, we both have grown kids from previous marriages and we both want some assets of ours individually to go to them so we set up separate trusts to take care of that. The trust amount go to the surviving spouse first for their use and then to the respective kids. We want to take care of US first and then the kids after we are gone.

 

[free4now]

Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary.  I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one.

I can understand that attitude from a marriage veteran, but I'm also sure that if I ask the 50% whose marriage ends in divorce they will disagree with the premise that "finding the right person" ensures a happy lifelong marriage.

 

[LRS]

You're right. Marriage is a perilous venture. However, a prenup is sort of like betting that a marriage will fail. Not an auspicious way to begin.

 

[dex]

You're right. Marriage is a perilous venture. However, a prenup is sort of like betting that a marriage will fail. Not an auspicious way to begin.

Well it may not be auspicious but with a 50% divovce rate for the first marriage and increaseing with each succeding marriage, it may be prudent.

"Marriage is very much like a violin; after the sweet music is over, the strings are attached."

"A second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience." -
-- Samuel Johnson

 

[Jarhead*]

Spouse & I have known each other since 1979 and are approaching the big 2-0 anniversary.  I think I speak for the marriage veterans when I say that if you have to ask the prenup question of yourself... then they ain't the one.  When you meet the right person to spend the rest of your life with, there won't be any doubts.  

Nords: "My wife and I never go to bed mad.
We stay up all night and fight it out."

"Shecky Green", circa l965.

Pretty good advice.

 

[Martha]

Prenups shouldn't be one sided; they are typically done with both sides having lawyers.

It would still be one sided if one person had all the money.

This reminds me of the Seinfeild episode where George is trying to get out of marrying his girlfriend and to do so, he suggests a prenup. She laughes and says sure--she had all the money and George had nothing.

I'm glad we got married when we were young and poor.

 

[Jarhead*]

Well it may not be auspicious but with a 50% divovce rate for the first marriage and increaseing with each succeding marriage, it may be prudent.

"Marriage is very much like a violin; after the sweet music is over, the strings are attached."

"A second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience." -
  --  Samuel Johnson

"A faint heart never won fair lady."

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'm going with pittsburgh/carolina superbowl. Remember you saw it here first on roller derby.

The 50% divorce rate is because people choose to be with the wrong people. But that doesnt extend to money. I've seen a lot of people willing to marry someone, but not willing to blend finances...or one devoutly wants to control the money.

Easy to divorce. Hard to make that money back. I think thats a sign. If you're willing to pour all your assets into the same bucket you trust and respect each other. If you want a prenup or want to keep your money to yourself, you're missing some part of trust or respect...IMO. In that case, you should definitely get a prenup because you've got a great shot at a divorce because you got married to someone you dont trust or that you think would screw you in a divorce.

All that having been said, even in a nearly perfect situation a little rain might fall.

Wife and I combined assets the week after we were married, joint all the way. I trust and respect her. If I ever do anything that makes her want to dig into me with a sharp kitchen utensil then I deserve to lose half my money.

Funny, my wife and I had that conversation last week regarding that football player who was stabbed by his wife, supposedly by accident. I said to my wife "Sorry, but if you ever stab me i'm not going along with the 'it was an accident' story."...her reply "If I ever stab you, you wont be around to tell any stories and you'll have deserved it". Probably about right.

 

[Outtahere]

() that sounds like the conversations dh and I have. We didn't do a prenup because we both came into the marriage with the same amount of assets. He has since retired and I have gone on to make a crap load of money (as he puts it). He is having a hard time with calling it our money because I make it and not him, funny he doesn't have a problem spending "our" money though.

The other day he told me I've converted him. To what I asked. He said to a cheapskate. I thought to myself, gee all this hard work has finally paid off LOL.

 

[greg]

Gonna cruise - trying to turn over a new leaf.

But the 'keeping up appearances' part is tempted to wear my bought on sale Bib overalls - to fire for effect so to speak.

Of course - I still have a few Jimmy Buffett Aloha type shirts and shorts/cutoff's( saved from New Orleans) - if the coveralls lay an egg.

Unclemick: I have a take off on an old "play for the girls"-- that I used in my younger days with a glow plug as bait--when you're on your cruise. First, I suggest you go to Goodwill and buy yourself a used suit, preferrably light in color or white or cream. Then sew the top to the bottom so you end up with coversuitalls. When you're on the promenade deck and you see an attractive young thing that is alone and, perhaps, looking for adventure, walk up to her and say "I have a portfolio this big." While doing this, raise your hands up, holding your elbows to your sides and wiggle them (your hands) just slightly port to starboard. If she smiles, your in like Flint. You immediately screen out the too serious, less confident ones who will be apalled by your behavior. But a 'good' woman will see your ploy for what it is--a seriously fun adventure with someone filled with dash and wit. If you get some wisegirl remark like "Just keep your pants on buddy," just smile and show her the newly sewed seam between your pants and coat and say "Not to worry, Ma'am." This might work on the really tough ones.

This technique is like a stock screener but not aimed at money or making it. But don't forget Graham & Dodd. Work out the Debt to Fun ratio yourself. Ignore the Norwegian widow if you strike gold. heh heh