AMCAP versus VG Total Stock Market Index

[2B]

Does that include me?

You don't have the legs.

 

[2B]

Now that Martha's got her boots and whip avatar back, scary love is HER department!!

I can live with that.

 

[2B]

As a general comment over the many post and treads, there are people I have been blunt with and frequently crossed the line with my comments. Good natured responses and acceptance of different opinions carries forward far farther than agreement or acceptance. If everyone here simply agreed with me, I'd soon stop coming and posting.

There is a level of repeated rudeness that isn't tolerated by me. Since I'm not a moderator, I can have my elite few of "ignores" and live with less garbage.

 

[rayvt]

What the heck
Perhaps bunny is dyslexic. The chart you posted clearly showed that AMCAP (one of AF's worst performers) outperformed in the 10 year + area, which is what I thought Mutual fund people wanted, long term results??

Nope. Want good statistics: average return (CAGR), low standard deviation, high risk-adjusted return, low maximum drawdown. That's what I asked about on another thread.

Period returns like 3-year, 5-year, 10-year are just boob-bait. What matters is the above stats. What the funds have done in the past X years is only mildly interesting.

 

[Art G]

Well first off, I hadn't heard nor seen anything from a mod stating they were being proactive on the matter. Also, I was responding to a different thread with further claims being made by you. If you can stick to the facts vs. furthering your personal vendetta, then I can do the same.
Now, as to the facts, you can't have it both ways, you can't tout long term results, then when the moment suits you, claim short term results are what matter. Would we love to see American Funds outperform in good times and bad, sure, however, this isn't always the case. AF owned a decent amount of FNM and AIG (both were supposed to be very conservative), and both went sour.
So, bottom line, they've gotten beat vs the index very recently, however, they do hold cash, so hopefully, when the time comes, they'll be able to buy near the bottom vs. having to hold certain stocks while they continue to tank. Consider the index fund that was forced to sell AIG at the bottom vs. at the very least being able to make an objective opinion as to their future.
Is there anything else in the world that you'd prefer to have a computer running without human interaction, besides your investments?

Anyone seeing an advantage yet to a mutual fund currently holding cash? Just wondering.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Just like one of those blow up punching bags with a weight in the bottom.

To answer the question: no. If I want to hold cash, I'll hold cash. I see no reason to give 5.75% of my cash to an adviser followed by 1% a year so they can hold it in cash and underperform everything else over almost any measure.

All I can think of is Donald Sutherland in Animal House trying to give an assignment to the class when they're all leaving, and muttering "Listen, I'm not joking. This is my job!"

We all understand that you have to drink your own koolaid to feel good about it.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Oh my dear lord. I should check the quotes before hitting the bag.

AMCPX down 3.92% today. S&P 500 down 3.85%

That cash and expensive active management is really working out!!!

 

[FinanceDude]

Oh my dear lord. I should check the quotes before hitting the bag.

AMCPX down 3.92% today. S&P 500 down 3.85%

That cash and expensive active management is really working out!!!

Vanguard Total Stock Market fund -3.98% today..........

 

[FinanceDude]

Vanguard Total Stock Market fund -3.98% today..........

AMCPX down 3.77% today, according to Yahoo Finance.........

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Sorry, the s&p500 and apcpx quotes were sitting next to each other in my "recent quotes" bucket and the punching bag wasnt worth looking up the tsm quote.

So whats that .13% advantage after taking out the 5.75% front end load and the 1% expense ratio vs the TSMs .15%?

 

[harley]

I know you guys have to p^ss all over each other, but does anybody really care what anything does for one day? Too much time, get a life, take a pill, etc.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey, I'm just enjoying the performance of my civic duty.

Every time one of these guys crows about how great their funds are...well...how great they think they are in the absence of data...and I mention the big front end loads, big expense ratios, and dismal performance vs expectations, Andy's fine SEO algorithms makes sure its in the top 5 google results for "american funds" or "amcpx", so millions of potential buyers can realize their mistake hopefully before making it.

So keep up the good work guys! Keep bringing it up!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

One year performance to date, total stock market vs AMCAP.

Holding all that cash and actively making brilliant investing decisions is really paying off in this down market...

 

[ats5g]

CFB,

Quit confusing people with actual facts, would you?

 

[Art G]

Oh my dear lord. I should check the quotes before hitting the bag.

AMCPX down 3.92% today. S&P 500 down 3.85%

That cash and expensive active management is really working out!!!

Sure, if you pick both funds to compare. AMCPX is not one of the funds holding cash. Thanks for your help.

 

[Art G]

Just like one of those blow up punching bags with a weight in the bottom.

To answer the question: no. If I want to hold cash, I'll hold cash. I see no reason to give 5.75% of my cash to an adviser followed by 1% a year so they can hold it in cash and underperform everything else over almost any measure.

All I can think of is Donald Sutherland in Animal House trying to give an assignment to the class when they're all leaving, and muttering "Listen, I'm not joking. This is my job!"

We all understand that you have to drink your own koolaid to feel good about it.

Great! so you're going to tell us all the right day to jump back in the market! I can't wait! I'll bet you $100 you miss it.

 

[Art G]

CFB,

Quit confusing people with actual facts, would you?

You guys are so insistent are arguing that you can totally miss the question. Nice job! I'm sure you're doing great right now.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Up comes the bag again. Maybe someone might want to pull out that little 1/4" air plug on it. At least I think its the air plug.

Heres a chart of all american funds that invest primarily in US equities losing vs the total stock market index over the past year, without even including the 5.75% front end load.

Go cash and active management!!!

By the way, I'll be sure to pop back in again in a couple of months when the markets take off and the american fund managers are still sitting there holding their cash and they begin to REALLY underperform...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Great! so you're going to tell us all the right day to jump back in the market! I can't wait! I'll bet you $100 you miss it.

Thats easy Art. You put the asset allocation in that fits with your risk tolerance and return requirements and you dont take it out, so theres no need to jump back in.

I'll PM you an address to send the $100 to.

Which by the way is way cheaper than 5.75% front end loads and 1%+ expense ratios for an American Funds manager to tell you, since it looks like they arent very good at it.

 

[Art G]

You just don't get it, or you insist on not getting it. The point is moving forward. Would you really rather be holding a fund with no cash to invest, or one that can seek out bargains?
Of course, since you've got all the answers, I'm sure you're going to tell us all when to jump in. I'll be following your posts just for that moment.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, we're the ones that just 'dont get it'.

So what you're saying is "We havent gotten it right so far over the last 1, 3, 5, or 10 years, but we're going to get it right after this?".

 

[Art G]

Thats easy Art. You put the asset allocation in that fits with your risk tolerance and return requirements and you dont take it out, so theres no need to jump back in.

I'll PM you an address to send the $100 to.

Which by the way is way cheaper than 5.75% front end loads and 1%+ expense ratios for an American Funds manager to tell you, since it looks like they arent very good at it.

Oh, so you're suggesting we shoot for further losses in funds with no cash to invest. Got it. What else ya' got in the way of advice? That wasn't quite worth $100.
Funny, we should sit through losses, that's ok. But heaven forbid we protect that risk with insurance. That wouldn't make any sense.

 

[ziggy29]

You just don't get it, or you insist on not getting it. The point is moving forward. Would you really rather be holding a fund with no cash to invest, or one that can seek out bargains?

In a properly constructed portfolio with asset allocation and rebalancing, the rebalancing does just that -- it will take some of the money that was allocated to cash and/or bonds and buy stocks at distressed prices.

Note also that rebalancing led to a somewhat reduced concentration of stocks just before everything started blowing up.

 

[Art G]

Yep, we're the ones that just 'dont get it'.

So what you're saying is "We havent gotten it right so far over the last 1, 3, 5, or 10 years, but we're going to get it right after this?".

I've already posted numerous times how American Funds outperformed +5 years, but you insist it doesn't count because you like adding fees in several times to your figures.
Anyway, I'm looking for ways to make money in the future right now. You keep living in the past. BTW, how you doing this year? Got a nice profit, do you?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

What else ya' got in the way of advice?

Yes. Dont waste your money on underperforming American Funds.

That wasn't quite worth $100.

Neither are American Funds, and they charge a lot more than that!

Funny, we should sit through losses, that's ok. But heaven forbid we protect that risk with insurance. That wouldn't make any sense.

But it makes more sense to put money in funds that on average lose even more money? I guess once its gone you no longer have to worry about it anymore.

And with those actively managed funds, you've got a fund manager ready, willing and able to lock in the losses rather than just be able to wait for a rebound.

Do you even think about this stuff for a couple of minutes or do the fingers type it out all by themselves?