American Express: Backstabbers

[JPatrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want2retire What amazes me is that despite my lack of credit usage, my credit scores (the ones you get for free once a year), are all in the mid 800's. So much for the theories on what affects credit scores.

I was under the impression that FICO scores could not be obtained through the free credit report process:confused:
How do you do that??

[Sarah in SC]

Want2, I agree. I would hate to spend all that time jockeying for percentage points on the credit cards. I just pay cash. We do have a credit card, but there is never a balance on it and I'd never use it except for when we travel out of the country, as it offers a few additional protections that my debit doesn't.
To each his own, but to heck with my credit score--I don't want to ever be in debt again, and I consider being debt free to be a crucial part of my FIRE plans. Interesting that yours is still high despite the lack of credit useage.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah in SC ..............To each his own, but to heck with my credit score--I don't want to ever be in debt again, and I consider being debt free to be a crucial part of my FIRE plans. Interesting that yours is still high despite the lack of credit useage.

If I understand correctly, home and car insurance rates are partially set by FICO scores. I don't chase mine, but I think it is useful to keep my FICO as high as possible.

[Sarah in SC]

But once you lock in competitive rates, that generally stays, so says my broker when I asked about later effects of my FICO score being reduced by my lack of credit.

Progressive uses the FICO for your initial application, but after that, they don't go back to it. Likewise, if anyone can find me some cheaper insurance here along the coast--I'll get a #$%^ mortgage again!

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah in SC But once you lock in competitive rates, that generally stays, so says my broker when I asked about later effects of my FICO score being reduced by my lack of credit..............

I reshop my home and auto policies, together, annually.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah in SC Want2, I agree. I would hate to spend all that time jockeying for percentage points on the credit cards. I just pay cash. We do have a credit card, but there is never a balance on it and I'd never use it except for when we travel out of the country, as it offers a few additional protections that my debit doesn't. To each his own, but to heck with my credit score--I don't want to ever be in debt again, and I consider being debt free to be a crucial part of my FIRE plans. Interesting that yours is still high despite the lack of credit useage.

I do have an unused $50K HELOC, which I have been meaning to cancel. But that's all, so I find it amusing that my credit scores (not technically FICO) available for free when I check my three credit reports annually are so high. Maybe it is due to the fact that I paid off my house in four years, though conventional wisdom would have it that one must be in hock up to one's eyeballs to get a high credit score.

I agree!! I don't ever want to owe money again.

[Sarah in SC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover I reshop my home and auto policies, together, annually.

I shop mine, too, but no one is ever cheaper than Progressive. And homeowner's, well, there just isn't any good news in hurricane prone areas.
I can't ever beat State Farm on the HO, not by hundreds of dollars a year.

But my FICO probably will not drop for a while, since I kept the HEL open once we paid it off, like Want2, and we just paid off the house in 2007. Plus I do have the zeroed credit card, so I'm not in fear of dropping off the grid yet!

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by liveitup Capital One jacked my rate from 8.9% to 15.9%.I've been dealing with them for years,carry a low balance(that could be the reason) and have a fico score of 813. They offer low rates to new customers,but screw the people that have kept them in business. Welcome to Capital One!

If you have any other cards that have higher balances, they could raise your rates based on utilization ratios. They also can raise rates anytime they see fit......

I gave up credit cards, got sick of playing the 0 percent game and taking forever to get airline points..........

[education]

Let me just add my 2 cents to this. I absolutely abhor American Express. Most of the businesses with which I deal won't even honor the card. That should tell us something right there. Most say AMEX is too costly and too difficult to deal with--hence they will not honor the cards. I have been embarassed one too many times by having the card simply refused. Luckily for me I had another card or cash.

When I called to cancel the card, I was treated like a leper by them. I've had offers to reconnect with the best ...but I say their best is the worst!!!!

Professor

[mickeyd]

I hate credit card roulette as the CC company always has the edge. Even if you have figured out a way to job the system and make a small miscalculation, they will immediately dump on you because of that clause #79 on page 4 of the agreement that is written in extremely small type. You know, the one that you were going to read later on.

[FinanceDude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyd I hate credit card roulette as the CC company always has the edge. Even if you have figured out a way to job the system and make a small miscalculation, they will immediately dump on you because of that clause #79 on page 4 of the agreement that is written in extremely small type. You know, the one that you were going to read later on.

I like the clause: "we have the right to stomp all over you, raise your interest rate higher then Louie the Loan Shark, fee you to death, and then raise your rates some more. Also, if someone wrongly uses your card, we will help the thief buy as much as they can, even offering them a higher line of credit when they bump up against yours"........

[tryan]

I tink AMEX is the Nigerian Prince I recieved an EMAIL from ....

[tibbar]

Achiever51,
AE did you a favor. Any purchase you put on the card after you do a balance transfer will be charged the "purchases" interest rate. All money paid to the account comes off the lowest % interest until that is paid in full. Anything you purchase after doing a balance transfer stays on the card, racking up interest, and is only paid off after the whole balance transfer is paid off.

[retiringby50]

Wow, American Express has certainly come a long way! Amex was my first credit card. I still remember how impressed I was because they were willing to issue me a credit card. They even sent me the credit application by Fedex for me to sign - weird but impressive, especially to a 18 year old! I was working in retail then at $4.50/hour in an upscale part of town, so "everyone" used their Amex card. The person I worked with talked a lot about the gold and platinum card and would always treat the platinum cardholders just a little more special. Anyway, I got my gold card and experienced their excellent service for many years. One year I decide that $75 for a card I rarely used was not a prudent thing to do, so I cancelled. No "we'll waive the annual fee" or "why are you canceling." I guess that was a sign.

Now I'm hearing all this other stuff about their bad service. So sad. It used to be one of the companies we researched in business school.

[retire@40]

Update: I called AMEX today to resolve the situation.

Since I did not give them full access to my tax return transcript, they are now requesting not only my personal income tax return, but also copies of my personal bank statements. My words to them were "ARE YOU NUTS"

The cancellation letter I got from them states "we are canceling your account effective immediately and we request that you pay your total due upon receipt of this letter."

After speaking to one of the "customer satisfaction representatives" I told them that this wreaks of "bait and switch." There is no place on the original application that states I would be subject to this and there was no request of this information BEFORE I was given the balance transfer. I told them in the normal business world you are supposed to get all the information you need BEFORE you complete the transaction. As far as I am concerned, I completed their application which apparently was all the information they needed since it was enough to send me the balance transfer. Once they agreed to send me the balance transfer the deal was done. Since then I even made my first minimum payment on a timely basis before receiving the tax return request.

Bottom line is that they will not reinstate my credit card, but they are allowing me to finish making my minimum monthly payments at zero percent for the rest of the 11 months AS THEY ORIGINALLY AGREED even though I am not sending them my tax return or any other sensitive financial document.

So, instead of gaining a happy customer, they lost me as a customer forever, got some negative publicity on this forum and with my friends, relatives, and clients for the rest of my life, and they will still be loaning me their money at zero percent for 12 months. It appears their marketing campaign may have backfired in this case.

Next time I get an AMEX credit card application in the mail (which is almost once a week), I am mailing it back to them blank with only the words "I have already been subject to attempted financial rape by AMEX. Go prey on someone else."

[copyright1997reloaded]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want2retire In ten years, I have never needed anything more than my debit card for anything or any reason, and I have never suffered any inconvenience due to not having a credit card. I don't plan to ever apply for one, for any reason. They just don't float my boat.

While I understand and agree with some of the feelings in this thread, I can't understand why anyone would see a debit card as superior to a credit card. My rationale:
1. Credit cards offer you "free float" on your funds, while debit cards immediately debit your account. For instance, why not keep your money earning interest at 4 or 5% for the 25-30 days of float?
2. Credit cards offer superior protection in fraud - legal limit of $50 exposure, ability to dispute fraudulent charges (and charge removed while the dispute is pending), and ability to stop a payment. For Debit cards, federal law now limits your exposure to $50, but only if you notify within 2 days of discovering the fraud, and there a limits to the time you have to catch the error.
3. You can't get a NSF or other costly overdraft using a credit card (but I guess you could consider over-limit somewhat equivalent).
4. The rewards programs (e.g. cash back, mileage programs) seem to still be better with credit cards.

My rationale (and the one I've used since getting my first credit card eons ago) is that a) never buy on credit if you don't have cash/funds to back the purchase (just like a debit card would required), and b) ALWAYS pay the entire balance in full (i.e. no payment plan).

But, I will say that your method is gaining more and more acceptance in the marketplace, as debit card transactions as a percentage of overall "payments" is growing...

[cute fuzzy bunny]

They got me good once about 14 years ago, and I decided to stop doing business with them.

Someone at my old company charged some office supplies to my company amex card after I left the company, but they decide that it was easier to try to get the money from me than my company. Three times I spent over an hour faxing copies of my termination paperwork that showed I was an ex-employee 3 weeks before the charges were made, and three times they said they'd take care of it. Then I'd get the same bill the following month.

They've got a long memory though, and it transgresses the 7 year limit. A couple of years ago I was approached at Costco to get a costco/amex membership card and figured what the heck. The instant credit check with amex turned me down. The costco droid said she'd never, ever had one turned down and it was a code she didnt have in her book...

[rayvt]

I always use a credit card, never a debit card. Lots of legal protection in a CC, very little in a DC. When you rent a car or check into a motel, they reserve a high amount on your card--either credit or debit. That is taken out immediately, but when you return the car or leave the motel, the release of the excess can take quite some time. This can be a real problem with a debit card, since you could be getting NSF's that you don't expect.

FWIW, I don't care how low or high my CC interest rate is. I pay it off every month. And with a cash-back card like Discover or PenFed, I get a 1% rebate on everything I buy.

Never do balance transfers, either. They are just a hook, just baited with money instead of a worm.

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayvt I always use a credit card, never a debit card.

Me too. Twice I've done deep dives researching debit cards since they've become so popular and I was wondering if I was missing something. Twice I came up empty with zero advantage to the debit card over the credit card.

Am I missing something?

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny Someone at my old company charged some office supplies to my company amex card after I left the company, but they decide that it was easier to try to get the money from me than my company. Three times I spent over an hour faxing copies of my termination paperwork that showed I was an ex-employee 3 weeks before the charges were made, and three times they said they'd take care of it. Then I'd get the same bill the following month.

I called Amex and cancelled my corporate card a couple of weeks before I retired. Our HR dept had some scatter brain tendencies and I couldn't imagine just handing my card over to one of them still live and kicking. Based on your post, I'm glad I did.