Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-22-2008, 01:15 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude View Post
It's the only way they can mitigate the risk, they need flexibility. How else can they "guarantee" 6 or 7% withdrawals when the market is down 10%??
Hey, no argument from me. I was just surprised that sponsoring an actively managed fund with wide manager discretion was on their agenda.

BTW, you are making a serious mistake in your interpretation of their literature. They DO NOT guarantee the withdrawals as you stated.

Now, important stuff. Did you get a boat or are you still screwing around with that? If you have one, when we going fishing?
__________________

__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-22-2008, 01:28 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
FinanceDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Now, important stuff. Did you get a boat or are you still screwing around with that? If you have one, when we going fishing?
Well, since I chipped a bone in the top of my foot, and possibly some cartilage damage, I have been distracted. DW has moved on from boats to landscaping, and since I can't do the work..........

I am still hunting, but I don't think the PAIN the economy is inflicting has gotten the boat owners yet....they have to sell their gas-guzzling SUV first, then realize now they can't pull their boat, and THEN I can strike........probably a few months away........

When I get one, we can go fishing. I don't remember where you are at but I think it's Illinois or somewhere? Maybe a walleye sojurn on the Wolf River or Wisconsin River is necessary..........
__________________

__________________
Consult with your own advisor or representative. My thoughts should not be construed as investment advice. Past performance is no guarantee of future results (love that one).......:)


This Thread is USELESS without pics.........:)
FinanceDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 03:31 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Wonder where you got that from? The payout calculator provided by Vanguard at the site still shows 3/5/7.
The growth fund says on the main fund page "The fund's per-share payout for 2008 is $0.0500." on a share price of $20.

The middle one says "The fund's per-share payout for 2008 is $0.0833." on a $20 share price

The high payout one says "The fund's per-share payout for 2008 is $0.1167." on a share price of $20.

Perhaps this is prorated for the thing not starting until may of this year?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 03:38 PM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
I stuck $60k into the middle fund that I had laying around in a money market not making enough for me to want to leave it in cash anymore.

Very exciting. Lets see what happens!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 03:44 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
FIRE'd@51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
The growth fund says on the main fund page "The fund's per-share payout for 2008 is $0.0500." on a share price of $20.

The middle one says "The fund's per-share payout for 2008 is $0.0833." on a $20 share price

The high payout one says "The fund's per-share payout for 2008 is $0.1167." on a share price of $20.

Perhaps this is prorated for the thing not starting until may of this year?
Those are monthly payouts, so the annualized payouts would be 3%, 5%, and 7%, respectively.

BTW, the expense ratio is shown as 0.58%.
__________________
FIRE'd@51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 04:02 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Thats what happens when I try to do math in my head while drinking my first cup of coffee.

The distribution focus funds ER is .57.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 05:11 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,032
I have about half my assests in taxable accounts . Are these investments taboo for them ?
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 05:19 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Its sort of hard to say. I think by saying things like "<asset class> 0-50%" they're creating an impression that they may wildly change the holdings very quickly and the contents of the fund one day might be different from the next.

Perhaps they're overdoing the ass covering on wanting to give themselves leeway to invest as they see fit. I cant see them making rapid massive changes to the holdings. I would anticipate them to moderate change over a period of years, but if they thrash trade I think they'll lose customers. Many people wanting these funds (primarily people near or in retirement) wont be able to use them in a tax advantaged account.

Plus they oughta be able to balance some of the selling gains with losses. Some pieces of this are going to be extremely volatile. They get the ying and the yang right and trim off the ends, it might end up being reasonable.

I wouldnt expect it to be as miserly in capital gains as the Tax Managed Balanced Fund, but I dont expect it'll look like a commodity fund either.

My 60k is in a taxable fund. We'll see how it goes.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 06:51 PM   #29
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
I have about half my assests in taxable accounts . Are these investments taboo for them ?
Credible hearsay, if there is such a thing, over on the Diehards board indicates that these will be very actively managed, meaning they will not be great for taxable accounts. Too much taxes on gains, dividends, etc. Do your homework beforehand.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 10:00 PM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Frankly, at this point I'd love to pay a lot of taxes on gains and dividends. Every year!

What Rich said is important though. Fully understand any fund before putting money into it, especially taxable funds.

That having been said, the diehards folks are a bunch of worry warts who think anything that isnt some sort of straight index thats been around for 40 year is suspicious, and I have spent a lot of time looking at these funds. Bogleheads think that a chunk of US equities, a slice of US bonds...and maybe...just maybe...a sliver of foreign equities...are all you need. Maybe that how its gone before. Maybe thats how it'll go another 40 years.

But having said that, $60k to me is like blowing a little extra money on a really nice batch of ice cream. My life doesnt depend on it. Shoot, Amazon just had a sale on chocolate and I think I bought about 40lbs worth. Oh well, Mothers Day is right around the corner.

Were I choosing between wellesley and this with safety in mind, I'd take mostly wellesley or target retirement or lifestrategy income and maybe some of this.

If I had a bunch of money and was looking at annuities and gold and commodities and market neutral funds and precious metals and thought "What the hell? Cant I get a little of all of this and not sweat the details?".

In that case I'd buy some. Whoo! Just did!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:29 AM   #31
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
I have about half my assests in taxable accounts . Are these investments taboo for them ?
From the prospectus:
"The Fundsí twelve scheduled distributions in each year are made monthly, at mid-month. An
additional distribution may be made in December, and other additional distributions may be
made with respect to a particular fiscal year in order to comply with applicable law. The Funds
are designed with the expectation that the twelve scheduled monthly distributions will be
paid in cash but that each additional distribution for a particular fiscal year will be automatically
reinvested in additional Fund shares. Accordingly, to allow the Funds to achieve their design
objectives, the Funds will generally automatically reinvest any additional distribution for a
particular fiscal year in additional Fund shares. These additional shares can be redeemed
under the same terms and conditions as any other shares of the Funds."

Don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain! Indeed it appears that there may be taxable returns you either get in cash or that are re-invested beyond the percent that is paid out monthly. It will be very interesting to track these guys once they are operational.
__________________
WilliamG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 06:38 PM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Hey everyone, I didn't scour the prospectus so I might have missed something but these funds simply look like a modified fixed % withdrawal strategy. Am I wrong in thinking they just payout 3%/5%/7% of the trailing 3 year average NAV?
__________________
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:06 PM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 332
All the nervous nellies will probably crap their drawers on this one, but I am putting half my retirement account, which is in an IRA, in the 3% and 5% (50-50). I know somebody will post that they hope I don' t end up crapping my drawers in a few years.
__________________
cashflo2u2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:09 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashflo2u2 View Post
I know somebody will post that they hope I don' t end up crapping my drawers in a few years.
No. But I hope you still have some drawers to...uh...

Actually, I suspect you'll be fine. Let us know how it works out.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:19 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
I decided I like surprises and put 60k into the 3% version and 60k into the 7% version to go along with the 60k of the 5% fund I bought yesterday. I'll watch them for a while and see what the allocations turn out to be and what the short term performance looks like and maybe stuff some more money into the one I like the most.

The ER is expected to drop as assets grow. I'm doing my part!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:26 PM   #36
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,860
Wow, you sure ARE doing your part! I am a teeny bit jealous since getting in on the ground floor like this sounds like such fun (but it's not in my plan). Enjoy! And let us know what you think once things shake out.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:38 PM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Just like a box of chocolates!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:42 PM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
My god folks its Vanguard, not a late night infomercial selling secrets of the wealthy.

Vanguard is "promising" growing returns starting at 3%, 5%, and ooh wait for it 7% for you Vegas gambling action junkies.


Me I'll probably put in $50K into the 5% after a muni bond matures later this year. This assumes that I still have money after my writing puts and naked calls...
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:47 PM   #39
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Well, they're suggesting growth in the 3%, inflation pacing with the 5% and 'we're gonna try to keep up with inflation but probably wont make it' with the 7%.

I think the juicy one will be the 3% if you've got enough other income sources to fill in while it picks up some capital appreciation. But I want to see what they do with it, how they move with the markets and what the tax situation looks like at the end of the year before I throw a couple more boat anchors in.

Do also remember that we're pretty low profile income wise. My wife only works part time and since we have no debt to service every month our income needs are pretty modest. So some capital gains arent going to make me cry at tax time.

The first 60k came out of cash. The $120k for the two other purchases came out of wellesley.

This is really some nice diversification for the price. The only part I'm not thrilled with is the market neutral piece. If they get the ER down under .45 I'll be thrilled.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 07:47 PM   #40
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,032
I cheated on Early Retirement and went to Boglehead 's to get their take on the funds . They seem like great funds if you are in the distribution phase but the funds they are investing with I already have so I'm not sure I see the value in changing especially since they are in my IRA which I will not be touching until required . If I did not have a cola pension I would seriously consider them because I like the security of a monthly pay out .
__________________

__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wellesley Comparables ferco FIRE and Money 5 01-20-2008 03:07 PM
Wellesley vs Annuity WilliamG FIRE and Money 63 12-09-2007 02:03 PM
100% in Wellesley? 2035? Breitling FIRE and Money 15 09-04-2007 04:32 PM
Psst! Wanna Buy a Slightly Used Colonoscope? jdmorton Other topics 18 05-05-2007 03:35 AM
50% VG Wellesley 50% VG Star & Get on with ER Hydroman FIRE and Money 14 09-09-2006 05:57 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.