Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: How much $ do you have NOW: Holdings + Home Equity + (Annual Non-SS Pension*25)
0-250K 16 5.30%
250-500K 21 6.95%
500-750K 14 4.64%
750k - 1mm 33 10.93%
1mm - 1.25mm 29 9.60%
1.25mm - 1.5mm 34 11.26%
1.5mm - 1.75mm 20 6.62%
1.75mm - 2mm 28 9.27%
2mm - 2.5mm 36 11.92%
> 2.5mm 71 23.51%
Voters: 302. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 12:43 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,012
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
I've never included the future value of my small, non-cola private sector pension when calculating my present net worth, but that's just me.

For others who do want to include the future value of pensions, be sure you use the value based on what you've already earned and vested. Don't assume you'll be with your employer for X more years or that the plan won't change for future years you continue to work there. What would your pension payments be at some age X if you walked off the job today?
To be accurate you will also need to discount the value of that future income stream for the number of years you have to wait before receiving it.
__________________

__________________
jdw_fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 12:54 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
It is implicit in the word "net."
If only the OP had used the word "net" anywhere in his original post or in his poll question, I would have known with certainty that we are talking about net worth.

However, I think Rich was trying to skirt definitions of "What is Net Worth" by avoiding use of the phrase. Rich's formula to calculate "Watcha Worth" doesn't explicitly include "debt" anywhere except under "home equity".

__________________

__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 01:23 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bikerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,901
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwsinron
WoW look at all the 2.5> :
I would assume some of the 2.5 + includes some CA real estate. Am I wrong?
__________________
“I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said” Alan Greenspan
Bikerdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 01:50 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdude
I would assume some of the 2.5 + includes some CA real estate. Am I wrong?
Yes. It is mostly day traders.

ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 02:02 PM   #45
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 678
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

The poll is not complete....it doesn't account for those with a negative net worth. (I was in that position not too many years ago)
__________________
JustCurious is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 02:40 PM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
martyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bossier City
Posts: 2,182
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

As if anymore confusion is needed, what about.........survivor's benefits of a COLA'd pension I have one of those types pensions starting up in a little over 5 yrs, then ANOTHER one that begins 5 years after the first one! Both COLA & both with survivor bennies that I have yet to select as to percentages for my wife. Maybe I better not mention it, this poll is cornfused enough already!
__________________
“Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.”
-John F. Kennedy

“Hard work never killed anybody, but why take a chance?” - Edgar Bergen
martyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 03:54 PM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Yes. It is mostly day traders.

ha
And Silicone Valley realestate.

With the inclusion of pensions "worth" of an individual will be higher than usually measured against the more accepted (well, not here) formula for net worth.

Counting the equity in RE and the future value of a pension in the value of one's worth is misleading. Equity only has value when liquidated and the pension requires you live to receive it. Unless you pension plan is one that also provides 100% payment to the surviving spouse, it will most likely be reduced by 50% or even go to zero; depending on how it is to be taken at retirement. Once chosen, it cannot be changed. So counting your eggs before they hatch might be entertaining but don't plan on doing a SWR from them without further consideration of how long you might live and how the pension will be passed to a surviving spouse. Remember, that most pensions stop distributions at the death of the second to die. Children may not be allowed to receive the pension so it will stop when the option taken on the distribution is met.

Likewise, the equity in your home might be a nice addition to your "worth" but you have to live somewhere and once you liquidate your current home only what is left over after the sale and purchase of an other abode will really be "cash" to spend or invest.

Due to the inclusion of home equity and pension future value, the ranges in the poll are too restrained at the high end. The high end (>$2.5M) will have several statifications within that range up to maybe $10M for at least one member of this board (not me for sure!). I would venture a guess that at least 50% of the top range in the current poll would be in the $3-5M range with the others falling into a somewhat normal distribution above and below it. At least this is what previous polls seemed to indicate but without home equity or future value of pensions.
__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 04:03 PM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,012
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyb
As if anymore confusion is needed, what about.........survivor's benefits of a COLA'd pension I have one of those types pensions starting up in a little over 5 yrs, then ANOTHER one that begins 5 years after the first one! Both COLA & both with survivor bennies that I have yet to select as to percentages for my wife. Maybe I better not mention it, this poll is cornfused enough already!
On the off chance that you are seriously looking for an answer here are the steps.
1) go to the Vanguard annuity site & plug in the numbers and info for how your first pension will look when you actually start to receive it including the correct survivor's benefit. For the quote pick the closest start date that you can and adjust all the other numbers relative to that number. Remember that you will have to change data so that it looks like the future data. eg. if your pension starts on 1 Apr 2012 and for your quote you picked a start date of 1 Jun 2007 and you were born on 27 Mar 1952, then you will need to input your birthday as 27 May 1947; this makes your age correct in the quote.
2) the cost of the annuity is the value of your pension if you were starting it on the date you selected for the quote. Now you need to dicount that number for the amount of time between that date and the date it will actually start. To do this you need to select a discount rate which is the average ROR you expect on your investments between the two dates.
3) next you need to plug the numbers into the discounting equation
PV = FV/(1+R)^n where
PV is the current value of your pension,
FV is the number you got in step 1),
R is the discount rate you determined in step 2) and
n is the number of years between now and the start of your pension

Now repeat steps 1)-3) for your second pension
__________________
jdw_fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 04:05 PM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Pretty impressive group of respondents so far. 3/4's are millionaires. Over 1/3 are multi-millionaires.
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 04:07 PM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
free4now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,225
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

A suggestion to all poll-makers: When the choices are numerical ranges, make the ranges smaller at the bottom and bigger at the top. One simple way to do this is to double the value each time.

E.g. a poll could have had the following choices:

0-125k
125k-250k
250k-500k
500k-1m
1m-2m
2m-4m
4m-8m
8m-16m
16m+

and that way you wouldn't have so many answering "more than the survey range".


__________________
free4now is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 04:22 PM   #51
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,012
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR

Counting the equity in RE and the future value of a pension in the value of one's worth is misleading. Equity only has value when liquidated and the pension requires you live to receive it.
I disagree with these statements. If you are using net worth in the classic sense then both RE and a pension (or an SPIA for that matter) have value which needs to be accounted for. If you are using the argument
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
So counting your eggs before they hatch might be entertaining but don't plan on doing a SWR from them ...
You absolutely should use them when doing SWR calculations. It should be obvious that the pension should be input into FIRECalc to help determine a SWR, but the house equity also plays a role as housing is a lifestyle decision. All assets can be used to support the generation of income to support you in retirement. If you choose a lifestyle that requires a house that consumes the income from half of your assets does it matter (from the stand point of being able to retire) if you own the house or are renting it?
__________________
jdw_fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 04:32 PM   #52
Full time employment: Posting here.
Calgary_Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 775
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Net worth just crossed $1.25 million the beginning of March (whoo hoo!).

Unfortunately, no company pensions here
__________________
I can only be nice to one person today! Today is not your day...tomorrow doesn't look good either.
Calgary_Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 07:59 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw_fire
I disagree with these statements. If you are using net worth in the classic sense then both RE and a pension (or an SPIA for that matter) have value which needs to be accounted for. If you are using the argument You absolutely should use them when doing SWR calculations. It should be obvious that the pension should be input into FIRECalc to help determine a SWR, but the house equity also plays a role as housing is a lifestyle decision. All assets can be used to support the generation of income to support you in retirement. If you choose a lifestyle that requires a house that consumes the income from half of your assets does it matter (from the stand point of being able to retire) if you own the house or are renting it?
One of the great things about public forums is the ability to share your own opinion. You are welcome to disagree with any opinions I express on this board. If you want to calculate your NW including your house equity and your pension's future value go right ahead. I don't choose to do so since I can't count on living forever and my pension will stop when I die. My house equity is not like a savings account. I don't plan on doing a reverse mortgage or a home equity loan. When we downsize part of the equity will be reinvested in another house or a condo; what ever is left will be invested. At this point I will count the increase in investment or cash reservers this generates in my NW but not the equity in my new house. It is a personal choice and one I choose to use in my NW tracking.

As for SWR calculations, I choose to use only the assets that I plan on liquidating in my SWR calculation. While my meager pension is use in FIRE calc. it is not included in my list of assets for SWR withdraw purposes; just like my home equity is not in this figure. If you choose to use your home equity and pension in your asset column then that is your choice but I doubt many others here would agree with doing that. Life is about choices. You pick yours...I will pick mine.
__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 08:12 PM   #54
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 585
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR
One of the great things about public forums is the ability to share your own opinion. You are welcome to disagree with any opinions I express on this board. If you want to calculate your NW including your house equity and your pension's future value go right ahead. I don't choose to do so since I can't count on living forever and my pension will stop when I die. My house equity is not like a savings account. I don't plan on doing a reverse mortgage or a home equity loan. When we downsize part of the equity will be reinvested in another house or a condo; what ever is left will be invested. At this point I will count the increase in investment or cash reservers this generates in my NW but not the equity in my new house. It is a personal choice and one I choose to use in my NW tracking.

As for SWR calculations, I choose to use only the assets that I plan on liquidating in my SWR calculation. While my meager pension is use in FIRE calc. it is not included in my list of assets for SWR withdraw purposes; just like my home equity is not in this figure. If you choose to use your home equity and pension in your asset column then that is your choice but I doubt many others here would agree with doing that. Life is about choices. You pick yours...I will pick mine.
Well, the poll included Home Equity, as I think it should. It is part of Net Worth. You might not use a reverse mortgage or downsize but someone else might.

I think to compare Apples to Apples to have to include Home Equity or Pensions
__________________
Cut-Throat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 08:20 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

You're both right! :P

Strictly speaking, your "net worth" is assets minus liabilities. Thus, home equity is an asset, the mortgage balance is a liability.

On the other hand, like SteveR, I don't count is it as part of my "retirement kitty".
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 08:29 PM   #56
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 585
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR
On the other hand, like SteveR, I don't count is it as part of my "retirement kitty".
I don't count it as part of the kitty either - I was just pointing out that the Poll of this thread did!
__________________
Cut-Throat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 08:45 PM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by free4now
A suggestion to all poll-makers: When the choices are numerical ranges, make the ranges smaller at the bottom and bigger at the top. One simple way to do this is to double the value each time.

E.g. a poll could have had the following choices:

0-125k
125k-250k
250k-500k
500k-1m
1m-2m
2m-4m
4m-8m
8m-16m
16m+

and that way you wouldn't have so many answering "more than the survey range".


The last three ranges may not be that useful. It might be more relevant for sites that focus on benchmarks on success, money ......... fortune or another other egotistic forums.
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 08:48 PM   #58
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Calculation of pension can be tricky since it is based inflation rate, cost of capital, and the numbers of period one can live to collect it.
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 08:58 PM   #59
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 443
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

how could any count or measure their networth while the housing and stock market continue to change at a very fast pace? i guess i am 3-4% poorer than last month.


enuff
__________________
Enuff2Eat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll
Old 03-27-2007, 09:54 PM   #60
Full time employment: Posting here.
mountaintosea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 553
Re: Annual "Watcha Worth" Poll

Wow everybody is so serious here! Personally I like the poll as I feel richer than I normally do. Yes I live in California but not all real estate is sky high. My little cabin just isn't worth that much. Most of my NW is from the pension and what I have saved and put in stocks etc. However if someone asked me outside this forum what is my NW, I would not include my real estate nor my pension. But since that was Rich's question I answer the way he asks. I think there will always be controversy. The ones who have saved and invested, well, will not want to be included with the ones with pensions and god forbid California real estate! They feel they deserve a higher rating! Plus let's face it pensions give us government employees and some rare corporate employees leverage. OTOH I know a lot of retirees who have sold their homes in California and bought elsewhere with money left over to pour into whatever fund or savings account. So maybe it should count. Then what's the concern about what the heirs get? What about the people who plan to spend it all? Does that mean that their funds don't count because it will not be left to anyone (if they can help it)? Ok I'll stop rambling. Good poll. By the number of posts I can tell everybody loves it. 8)
__________________

__________________
mountaintosea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Personality Poll Martha Other topics 85 06-26-2010 06:33 AM
Poll: What were you in school? SonnyJim Life after FIRE 49 05-07-2007 11:39 PM
Poll #1 Early retirees and your Marriage ESRBob Life after FIRE 2 05-25-2005 07:50 PM
Credit Qs on PBHG's annual report (31 Mar 04) Nords FIRE and Money 1 07-28-2004 06:02 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:27 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.