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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:31 PM   #181
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Re: Annuities

I believe this is the "wont answer a direct question" portion of the program...

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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:33 PM   #182
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Re: Annuities

He claims 'scores and scores' of appreciative followers where there are none, excepting people who dont know his drill.

If anyone puts up forward a request to see a link to a post in which I collected the comments of about 15 or 20 community members who expressed great enthusiasm for learning about the Data-Based SWR Tool, I will put up the link.
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:39 PM   #183
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Re: Annuities

You said nothing of substance in the entire post. *What is the data-based SWR tool?

I developed the Data-Based SWR Tool and I came up with the name I use to refer to it. I get to say what the Data-Based Tool is, Arrete. I answered your question.

A shorter way of saying it is that the Data-Based SWR Tool is the approach to SWR analysis used by aspiring early retirees with a sincere interest in knowing what the historical data says in the time-period after my posting of my May 13, 2002, post to the Motley Fool board and after JWR1945's research proving that the claims that I put on the table in that post are in fact supported by the historical stock-return data.
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:41 PM   #184
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Re: Annuities

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I believe this is the "wont answer a direct question" portion of the program...

Are you sure that none of these animals are being harmed? Are they doing this in response to your threats to read h@cus's posts to them?
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:41 PM   #185
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Re: Annuities

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I get to say what the Data-Based Tool is
So say it. You still haven't said anything of substance about it. What is the data-based SWR tool?

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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:49 PM   #186
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Re: Annuities

: As I keep saying, what I did works great for me.

I believe it could work great for someone else on this board.

Since, you don't believe the annuity amounts that I bought back in May 2004, I have a challenge for 1 person who is about to retire.

Give me the dollar amount that you want to spend each month in retirement along with your birthdate, sex and the state in the USA you live in.

I will do the research and tell you the exact amount you need to buy the immediate annuity that will pay you this income life.

This will take me a couple of days to do as I need to contact the person I dealt with and ask him to get me the amounts.

Please only do this if you are about to retire or already retired thinking about another way to get income.

Post your information and I will select the post I understand.

Is anybody up to this challenge

Tony
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:49 PM   #187
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Re: Annuities

If you want to take a look at the practical results that follow from making use of the Data-Based SWR Tool, please follow this link:

http://www.nofeeboards.com/boards/vi...31e04d477ccf7d
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:55 PM   #188
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Re: Annuities

Quote:
If you want to take a look at the practical results that follow from making use of the Data-Based SWR Tool, please follow this link:

http://www.nofeeboards.com/boards/vi...31e04d477ccf7d
Translation: I typed a lot of stuff yesterday and I'm a little too tired to do it again right now, so go read this pile of hogwash I already typed, in hopes that we can get you over to the board where we've paid the administrator to un-ban us, so we can get our moneys worth.
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 01:55 PM   #189
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Re: Annuities

Quote:
If you want to take a look at the practical results that follow from making use of the Data-Based SWR Tool, please follow this link:
I would like to know what the data-based SWR tool is before looking at results. If I don't know what the tool is, the results will mean nothing.

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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:11 PM   #190
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Re: Annuities

Quote:
I believe it could work great for someone else on this board.

Since, you don't believe the annuity amounts that I bought back in May 2004, I have a challenge for 1 person who is about to retire.

Give me the dollar amount that you want to spend each month in retirement along with your birthdate, sex and the state in the USA you live in.
Let's do it then for a reasonably typical person here who is planning for early retirement. *Let's put the person as born Jan 1, 1960 (just turned 45), male, CA. *Now of course they have a spouse that they don't want to shaft so this needs to be a joint annuity. *Let's set her birthdate as Jan 1, 1962 (isn't the wife on average 2 years younger?). *The desired retirement income is $40,000 / annum or $3,333.33 / month. *Of course, with such a long retirement that amount needs to be inflation adjusted too.
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Re: Annuitie
Old 03-15-2005, 02:13 PM   #191
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Re: Annuitie

Quote:
I'm shocked at your acceptance of Tony2002. I'd say at best he's just a consumer who bought the products he says and is so happy with the results he wants to share.

That's possible, isn't it?
For infinitessimal values of "possible", perhaps. For the type of common sense I use daily definitely not.

Quote:
If that's the case, then we all should want him to be able to say what he wants to say.
He did. It's still there. 3 or 4 times. I said what I wanted to say, too.

Selected snippets:
Quote:
If your mind is made up on annuities, you are wasting your time listening to either the pro or con case.

[...]

If you don't like annuities, you don't like annuities. I think you need to give up the desire to control what everyone else likes, though.[...] Give people here credit for being smart enough to see through any arguments that are as phony as you are saying you believe Tony2002's to be. If he is not able to back up what he says, he is not going to end up having much influence.
I don't recall stating an opinion on annuities. I will now: from reading _Die Broke_ and the fact that my DB pension will be delivered as an annuity I am interested in the implications and strategies of annuities as a part of my retirement a couple of decades from now; however it's clear to me that the underwriters make terms to put the odds in their favor ergo in most cases an investor is better off investing the money themselves. Annuities, like whole/universal life insurance, have beneficial uses for some people in some situations but overall are overpriced, underdelivering investment vehicles that insurance companies love to sell. I do give people here credit, and my interpretation of most of their comments is that Tony2002's annuity terms are unrealistic as represented, fail to adequately account for inflation and the same money would have produced better results invested directly. They also strongly intuit he is shilling. Tony2002 has had plenty of opportunity to argue his side. Have any of his posts been deleted?

Quote:
The problem is that a few people here are poisoning the waters so that the rest of us never get a chance to see whether he can back up what he says or not. When people attack like hornets, all sorts of negative stuff is let loose and you lose the ability to get a true picture of what the claims are and what the arguments for the claims are.
Tony2002 has had plenty of opportunity to argue his side. Have any of his posts been deleted? (Yeah, I cut and pasted that.)

Quote:
When you say that he is a salesman, you are assuming the worst. How about assuming the best until you have solid evidence otherwise?
Like giving investment advice that unnecessarily lines insurance companies' and investment advisors' pockets? Or touting unsupported, unrealistic annuity returns? I've done a little sales, and his post smacked strongly of directed marketspeak.

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What's the downside?
The downside occasional readers wouldn't see board regulars lambasting his ideas and think maybe they should check into that investment advisor and buy some deferred annuities with guarantees. Maybe it's silly for me to worry about that, but I've seen retirees send money off to scammers and been forewarned not to discourage them. (Worked for a delivery company that picked up from these people.) That really bugs me. I wish somebody could tell them they're about to get ripped off. That's a big reason why I jump on sales pitches. I also don't want the board to become a shill clearinghouse so I'm rather extra harsh to discourage anyone from thinking it might work here.


Quote:
I don't have money in annuities. I have no personal stake in the substantive question here. But annuities exist for a reason. They serve a purpose. How about letting those with an interest in learning more do so? There's plenty of room on this forum for those who like annuities and for those who don't like annuities to co-exist in peace. Isn't there?
I'm all for learning about annuities. As long as it's not sponsored by www.linemypocketsinvestmentadvisor.com and/or gives unsupported overachieving returns. We've had discussions about various rated bonds, real estate, REITs, commodities and derivatives. I learned enough to decide to put 10% of my port into a REIT. We're open here, but we can smell a sales pitch a mile away.

By the way, I'm glad I found this thread otherwise I'd still be wondering why TH's avatar was a gerbil with an orange turtle shell on its head.
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Re: AnnuitiesNo
Old 03-15-2005, 02:18 PM   #192
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Re: AnnuitiesNo

Quote:
He claims 'scores and scores' of appreciative followers where there are none, excepting people who dont know his drill.

If anyone puts up forward a request to see a link to a post in which I collected the comments of about 15 or 20 community members who expressed great enthusiasm for learning about the Data-Based SWR Tool, I will put up the link.

Translation: at one time or another over the last 150 years, a few people who didnt know better made some quote I can steal out of context and consolidate.

*****'s "quotes" have frequently generated requests from those quoted to have their name removed from his "lists". He generally does not comply with this, persistently asking the person "Why do you want me to remove you...I'm complimenting you!".

No animals were harmed in the making of these photographs. They are simply make as much sense and have as much relevance as *****'s posts.
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:21 PM   #193
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Re: Annuities

Tony is overly verbose, or maybe he is a head case.
I don't care. I post my share of crap, but at least I can keep it brief and not take myself too seriously. I prefer
outright hostility to repetitous effulent.

JG
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:25 PM   #194
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Re: Annuities

Quote:
You said nothing of substance in the entire post. What is the data-based SWR tool?
"Unfortunately, no one can be told what the data-based SWR tool is. You have to see it for yourself." Take the blue pill. Or the red. I forget.

I'll take a crack at it, but I'm sure the details are disputed: It's a method of using technical analysis to evaluate which asset class will provide the best returns for given period of time. I haven't quite figured out how that translates into SWR, but it sounds like either a lot of work or a lot of trust in ***** and JWR.

TH, okay, the bacon and pancakes were people food. I'm too scared to guess what was in the foil cup. That last thing--is that a dog treat or a filled pastry? Do you happen to have an orange turtle shell?
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:40 PM   #195
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Re: Annuities

Quote:

TH, okay, the bacon and pancakes were people food. I'm too scared to guess what was in the foil cup. That last thing--is that a dog treat or a filled pastry? Do you happen to have an orange turtle shell?
I think the thing in the foil cup is some kind of donut. That other thing was some sort of home-made twinky.

Orange turtle? With a pizza on its head? (Its a hungry turtle, after all this heavy reading on SWR's, tools and annuities for sale)

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Re: Annuitie
Old 03-15-2005, 02:46 PM   #196
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Re: Annuitie

TH, I think we crossposted and you missed my earlier interpretation of your avatar:

Quote:
By the way, I'm glad I found this thread otherwise I'd still be wondering why TH's avatar was a gerbil with an orange turtle shell on its head.
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:47 PM   #197
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Re: Annuities

BigMoneyJim - I love your new tag line.

TH - I found these, but I can't keep up with you. Are we using up all of dory's storage space?






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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:47 PM   #198
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Re: Annuities

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TH, I think we crossposted and you missed my earlier interpretation of your avatar:
Does that make it any less funny?

Hey! Those other photos are great!

I also have an entire collection of photos of animals with their heads inside of food bags (think cat in a potato chip bag).

Plenty of complementary ***** material. After the animals with their heads in bags, I'm thinking animals in compromising positions with politicians? Animals with guns?

These photos are stored on other web servers, not Dory's.

Hopefully he's enjoying them as much as we are!

My photobucket account must be getting full though...
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:53 PM   #199
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Re: Annuities

Since I use it all the time - here is my two cents:

It's not a tool in my mind but series of constructed data sets/analyses using long term data strings(thus limiting choices). I key off the long strings down through history to formulate benchmarks for selecting offense/defense strategy, benchmarks for evaluating asset classes, and where history landed you in the past had you retired at selected points in time.

Long boring strings of numbers is an acquired taste. It will not tell you what asset classes to invest in (at least in my mind) - but it can provide insight - and there in lies it's usefullness - to me.

For instance - it didn't say go buy Wellesley and 4% will be just ducky. But my take on the data - came to that conclusion. Like wise a dividend strategy. Likewise balanced index - perhaps throttling back the stock portion in times of high valuation and so on.

However - not annuities for certain mechanical reasons in the way the calculators are run (at least not yet). Links to Gummy's past calc.'s are provided.
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Re: Annuities
Old 03-15-2005, 02:57 PM   #200
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Re: Annuities

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