Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Annuities, a possible +Ve. (In Florida at least) - Please Control Your Excitement
Old 03-05-2018, 07:48 AM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Historic Florida
Posts: 3,903
Annuities, a possible +Ve. (In Florida at least) - Please Control Your Excitement

I know we at mostly adverse to Annuities because of Fees and a multitude of other reasons. However, I think I "may" have found a possible positive to Annuities in Florida and maybe other states.

I was reading that in case of litigation in Florida certain assets are protected, IRAs, Roths, Main Residence, Insurance Policies, Retirement SS Income and maybe a few others.

Does this make Annuities, assuming the protections offered to combat todays litigious society, attractive for some.

Here is an example:

Say one has a $5m portfolio of which $1m is cash in the bank, CDs etc. and $4m is in retirement accounts invested wherever. Would putting $1m into an Annuity of some kind protect ALL of one assets from a Law Suit?
__________________

__________________
"Arguing with an Engineer is like rolling in the mud with a pig. Just remember that the pig likes it."
ShokWaveRider is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-05-2018, 07:53 AM   #2
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lumpen slums of cyberspace
Posts: 30,590
Seems to me that keeping my assets invested in low cost equities & fixed income and taking out umbrella liability insurance is more practical and a lot less expensive.
__________________

MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 07:59 AM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Historic Florida
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Seems to me that keeping my assets invested in low cost equities & fixed income and taking out umbrella liability insurance is more practical and a lot less expensive.
This maybe true, but what if say one's total unprotected assets are say $1m and you have $1m Umbrella policy, then the judgement is say $2m, would your $1m moneys be at forfeit in this case? All of this is purely hypothetical of course as if you have a judgement against you then buy an annuity, it would be void.
__________________
"Arguing with an Engineer is like rolling in the mud with a pig. Just remember that the pig likes it."
ShokWaveRider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:03 AM   #4
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
Not the way I'd go, but:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ho...ors-2013-10-08

Are you concerned with an imminent lawsuit? Or are you looking for a reason to justify a purchase of an annuity you would like? Or something else?

If you are trying to make yourself judgement-proof, you need to work with an attorney and a CPA.
joeea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:04 AM   #5
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lumpen slums of cyberspace
Posts: 30,590
First, even in this "litigious society", a lawsuit is still a low probability event. In addition, the amount of liability coverage needed is not based on the amount of assets one has, but instead to the typical lawsuit / settlement amount.
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:09 AM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 5,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Seems to me that keeping my assets invested in low cost equities & fixed income and taking out umbrella liability insurance is more practical and a lot less expensive.
^^^
This is what I do and do live in Florida, but will research further.
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:12 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Historic Florida
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea View Post
NAre you concerned with an imminent lawsuit? Or are you looking for a reason to justify a purchase of an annuity you would like? Or something else?
No not at all, I was just reading about it this weekend. I actually have an umbrella policy myself.
__________________
"Arguing with an Engineer is like rolling in the mud with a pig. Just remember that the pig likes it."
ShokWaveRider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 01:11 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
teejayevans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Seems to me that keeping my assets invested in low cost equities & fixed income and taking out umbrella liability insurance is more practical and a lot less expensive.
Depends, umbrella policies usually have exceptions to coverage.
teejayevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 01:38 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
This maybe true, but what if say one's total unprotected assets are say $1m and you have $1m Umbrella policy, then the judgement is say $2m, would your $1m moneys be at forfeit in this case? All of this is purely hypothetical of course as if you have a judgement against you then buy an annuity, it would be void.
Even $5 million in umbrella coverage is not as much as you might think.

Also, people seem awfully flippant about the time and effort involved to actually win a court judgment.

The last one in which I was involved (personal injury claim against a business) took over 5 years after the plaintiff rejected a $2 million (IIRC) offer from the insurer.

Granted, they had significant, permanent injuries but the end result was that the plaintiff (and more importantly their family, since the plaintiff was the sole breadwinner) got bupkis at trial.
ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 02:00 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 24,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
I know we at mostly adverse to Annuities because of Fees and a multitude of other reasons. However, I think I "may" have found a possible positive to Annuities in Florida and maybe other states.

I was reading that in case of litigation in Florida certain assets are protected, IRAs, Roths, Main Residence, Insurance Policies, Retirement SS Income and maybe a few others.

Does this make Annuities, assuming the protections offered to combat todays litigious society, attractive for some.

Here is an example:

Say one has a $5m portfolio of which $1m is cash in the bank, CDs etc. and $4m is in retirement accounts invested wherever. Would putting $1m into an Annuity of some kind protect ALL of one assets from a Law Suit?
From what you wrote, it would depend on what sort of account the annuity is in. If you directly owned the annuity it is probably the same exposure as a taxable account other than the plaintiff can only commandeer the annuity stream of payments and not a lump sum. If the annuity was owned in an IRA then it would be protected just like stocks in an IRA.

IOW, it is the form of account that is important, not the type of investment.

I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't sleep at Holiday Inn Express last night..... so YMMV.

P.S. For a relatively modest cost, my insurer has millions of reasons to provide me with a vigorous defense should I be sued.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56...target 65/35/0 AA
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 02:29 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lakewood90712's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,056
It is my understanding that whenever a longtime member starts an Annuity thread, the member is put on ER-ORG Double Secret Probation

PS Umbrella coverage is fairly cheap, but exclusions have crept in over the years.
__________________
" A person is smart, but People are dumb, dangerous, panicky animals, and you know it " Agent "K", Men in Black
Lakewood90712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 03:01 PM   #12
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
It can’t be “Double *Secret* Probation” if it’s posted
FI_RElater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 12:22 PM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
PS Umbrella coverage is fairly cheap, but exclusions have crept in over the years.
such as?

IIRC most of the excess risk to the umbrella is due to auto, so is DUI now excluded?

All umbrella policies I've seen have a household exclusion, but I don't believe that's anything new, so the advice I've read is to crank uninsured/underinsured to the (typically $1 million) maximum under your auto policy.
__________________

ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rural excitement Martha Other topics 24 10-15-2008 02:56 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:15 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×