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Old 05-24-2014, 03:29 PM   #21
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It takes two to have a conversation. If you don't talk, they can't sell.
When I was young I remember my parents and friends going to one of those either timeshares or land sales pitches for the free tickets to Disney or something. My father said I'll tell them I can't hear ( he couldn't) and you can't see. Laughing let em try to sell us something.
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Old 05-24-2014, 03:31 PM   #22
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They were both refugees and could also pretend that couldn't speak much English either.

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It takes two to have a conversation. If you don't talk, they can't sell.
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Old 05-24-2014, 05:49 PM   #23
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Not only does the salesperson make a fat commission, the CEOs of these companies make a very large salary. Plus, these annuity companies are usually in the penthouse of the tallest building in your city. All this money comes straight out of your pocket in the way of high fees. Vanguard charges around 0.20 for their annuity and they're making money. The others are charging 2-3% so just think how much they make from your hard earned money. The downside is what you get in return is a poor product for retirement.
I don't quite follow you. Does Vanguard have an insurance subsidiary that underwrites annuities, or are you referring to annuities brokered by Vanguard but underwritten by other insurance companies?

Ha
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:11 PM   #24
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I never understand why the dislike for GOOD, I said good annuities. I bought 3 from Vanguard (I don't work there) @ 100,000 each and would never get rid of them. I did it for the optional rider and had the money put in the Wellington fund. All my expenses combined (death option, mutual fund management, rider) is 0.95%.

If you did change your mind after purchasing you can sell all your shares just like any mutual fund and there are no fees, just like when you buy in, no fees.

They are one leg of my retirement income "stool".

I just don't understand the "hate" for good (no salesman) annuities.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:33 PM   #25
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I don't quite follow you. Does Vanguard have an insurance subsidiary that underwrites annuities, or are you referring to annuities brokered by Vanguard but underwritten by other insurance companies?

Ha
I transferred an annuity to Vanguard. I'm pretty sure it is underwritten by Vanguard and not a third party.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:43 PM   #26
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Go to the Vanguard site and look at their annuities. They don't really advertise them, you will do a little digging but like I said, I would never give mine up, great peace of mind. As much as I like them, I also would never put all my eggs in one basket so these represent one of my income streams.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:48 PM   #27
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haha, take a look: https://investor.vanguard.com/annuity/
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:32 PM   #28
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The Vanguard annuities are offered through Hunter Investment Services if you work your way into trying to get a quote.
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:22 PM   #29
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The Vanguard annuities are offered through Hunter Investment Services if you work your way into trying to get a quote.
No, it is Monumental Life Insurance Company as I look at the front page of the ones I own.....maybe they changed companies since I bought mine but it definitely wasn't Hunter.
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:31 PM   #30
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Copied and pasted from the Vanguard website:

What guarantee do I have for my annuity contract?
The guarantee is subject to the claims-paying ability of the issuer, Monumental Life Insurance Company and, in New York State only, Transamerica Financial Life Insurance Company, both of which are highly rated for financial strength.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:05 PM   #31
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No, it is Monumental Life Insurance Company as I look at the front page of the ones I own.....maybe they changed companies since I bought mine but it definitely wasn't Hunter.
Hunter is the broker, it seems. I would guess they broker for a lot of insurance companies.
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Old 05-25-2014, 05:04 AM   #32
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I am sorry but I challenge the efficiency of a charitable annuity as well...as long as there is a middleman (salesman) a portion of your principle will be syphoned off...
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:33 AM   #33
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I've considered buying a deferred annuity. They may put fancy names on it like "longevity protection insurance", but what I'd want to do is buy something at age 65 that starts at age 80 if I'm still around. Last time I looked, you could buy $20K starting at age 80 for a flat $50K up front at age 65. When I'm 80 (in 2033!) that may pay for groceries, so I'd probably need to commit more up front to get anything meaningful, and then it gets scary to part with that much money. The good side is that you might be able to invest your remaining funds more aggressively knowing you have steady income from the annuity.
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:57 AM   #34
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I've considered buying a deferred annuity.
Check the Vanguard link in post #27. You can get a deferred annuity quote and "no salesman (or saleswoman) will call."
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:19 AM   #35
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Copied and pasted from the Vanguard website:

What guarantee do I have for my annuity contract?
The guarantee is subject to the claims-paying ability of the issuer, Monumental Life Insurance Company and, in New York State only, Transamerica Financial Life Insurance Company, both of which are highly rated for financial strength.
Operating companies that are part of the AEGON group, a large Dutch-American life insurance group. They had their troubles during the crisis, but unlike their countrymen at ING they did not have to be bailed out so thoroughly that the company had to be dismantled after the crash was over.
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Old 05-25-2014, 11:08 AM   #36
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They were both refugees and could also pretend that couldn't speak much English either.
This would be so hilarious to see--i'd go to a presentation just for that
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Old 05-26-2014, 04:28 PM   #37
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I am amazed to see the number of people suggesting and hawking annuities. Sure annuities pay a guaranteed fixed return but they also expose the owner to inflation. The results of which could be disastrous for a retiree.

The people who love annuities most are those who sell them as they pay handsome commissions. Ask yourself who is really funding those commissions? Answer: the buyer and at what cost? If that much money is going to the salesperson how can they be efficient. answer: They can't and are not! I don't pay up front fees for mutual funds and I don't fund annuity salespeople's retirements.

I buy low admin fees diversified mutual funds and efts ( emphasis on dividend paying ) and have done exceptionally well. I never sweat the dips corrections because the market always comes matching back. Google transparent investing.

Years ago (too many to count) I bought my first dividend paying stock and I received that first dividend. The sky immediately turned blue and I swear I heard harp music - it was an awakening! The dividends continue to come in and even in the last credit disaster the dividends kept getting posted to the brokerage account. It is hands off investing.

http://www.transparentinvesting.com/...wholestory.pdf

If you buy with the intention of holding forever the price really isn't important - the stream of income is.
Never let anyone sell you anything... Do your homework and cut out the middleman.
only thing i disagree with is the share price is very important if living off dividends directly.

cut or suspended dividends come at the worst of possible times which is during downturns.

having to sell shares off at steep losses to make up for shorfalls in income is certainly a big concern.
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:00 PM   #38
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only thing i disagree with is the share price is very important if living off dividends directly.

cut or suspended dividends come at the worst of possible times which is during downturns.

having to sell shares off at steep losses to make up for shorfalls in income is certainly a big concern.
That is the purpose of the bond portion of the mix. Very few would want to have a 100% stock portfolio during retirement.
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:10 PM   #39
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but if you are already drawing the bond income as part of your income anyway and combining it with the dividends how does the short fall get met?

you could sell additional bonds but then that would decrease the following years income.

the answer is you really do need to care where that share price goes.

i can see reinvesting dividends and letting them grow over time and eventually when markets are up sell shares and refill a spending bucket but i can't see planning on trying to live off dividends directly anymore then i would want to live off stocks directly.. they both are joined at the hip and fall in unison.
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:34 PM   #40
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This is one of the reasons I like the ones I bought......the Monthly income can only go up, it can never go down....and it is Wellington which has been around since the late 20's or early 30's....I am not losing sleep!
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