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Another Out of the Ordinary Blog by The Finance Buff
Old 09-06-2016, 08:53 AM   #1
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Another Out of the Ordinary Blog by The Finance Buff

Encouraged By Others To Take Risks

The Finance Buff gives some down to earth information about bias in "should I retire advice" from sources with no stake in your success or risk from your failure. He also mentions the even more glaring bias from salespersons. who may include those selling advice or information.

I know more than one younger person who made appealing but IMO financially and career damaging moves. Invariably they were given happy going away parties and oh this will be so great sendoffs. If as a friend you go against the flow here, you will likely lose the friend. In fact, if he goes and crashes, he won't say, oh I wish I had listened to so and so. He is much more likely to think that those nay-sayers damaged his chances by poisoning his confidence.

The advice giver has nothing to lose by saying, yeah, go for it gal!

Ha
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:00 AM   #2
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Conversely, we usually see forum posts complaining about friends and family who are trying to deter someone from early retirement out of concern that it will end badly. Once the die is cast, though, all that your friends & family can really do is say "Best wishes, have fun, hope all goes well."

People who have something to sell are another matter. If they are selling clothes, they will tell you you look terrific in that outfit, even if you don't. OTOH, if they are selling financial advice, I'm not sure what their incentive is to push someone into early retirement when it might be a bad idea. Are some of them like fortune-tellers, who sense what you really want to hear and then tailor their predictions to make you seem correct?
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:11 AM   #3
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I am reading the book Decisive by Heath and Heath. It has lots of advice about the process of making good decisions and has several great ideas pertinent to tfb's piece and haha's comments.

I recommend that folks who are making decisions spend some time with the book. They will certainly make better decisions after reading the book ... not always, but I think they will up their ratio of good to not-good decisions.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:38 AM   #4
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When I made the decision to retire at 58 with a pension we had a few friends that tried to talk us out of it and also tried to talk us out of downsizing to a smaller, cheaper home. It turns out that they were jealous being 8 years older then us and still having to work. Then they inherited some $ and instead of paying off their home etc so they could work only p.t. they rented their home that they could not sell and bought a 3k sq ft huge new home. Our friendship didn't survive it. I have heard from others now that they are struggling financially and still working at 70 and having health issues. Ugh! I never gave them advice but they sure felt free to give it to us.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:51 AM   #5
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I am still left handed and test INTJ and I generally don't hear/take advice well.

So when I was canned/layed off at age 49 1/2 almost 50 I followed my nose and cut expenses - sold and ate my rental RE, did a little temp work. I did have a job offer in Kansas. Who in the world would want to live in KANSAS for heaven sake!



12 years later along came Katrina.

heh heh heh - so who is making decisions? Me or the vicissitudes of life.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:11 AM   #6
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I don't know about everyone else but I don't talk in detail about my investments, my spending habits, etc with my coworkers.
How practical can someone's specific advice be if they do not know what your financial profile and goals are like? At best, it could be general conversation around a checklist of "have you considered X?" or "How would you handle Y?"
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:35 AM   #7
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I don't know about everyone else but I don't talk in detail about my investments, my spending habits, etc with my coworkers.
How practical can someone's specific advice be if they do not know what your financial profile and goals are like? At best, it could be general conversation around a checklist of "have you considered X?" or "How would you handle Y?"
I also don't talk specifics with anyone, thus when I have discussed potential for complete ER in a few years, the response I get from close friends is "You can't live here on just your pension!" I just usually respond with, "Yeah, I know."

Thus, their advice cannot be practical at all since I don't afford them enough detail, as you suggested.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:52 PM   #8
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I also don't talk specifics with anyone, thus when I have discussed potential for complete ER in a few years, the response I get from close friends is "You can't live here on just your pension!" I just usually respond with, "Yeah, I know."

Thus, their advice cannot be practical at all since I don't afford them enough detail, as you suggested.
Don't worry, even 2 years after you start getting your "wake up pay" from DFAS, people will STILL tell you that there is NO WAY you can live on only your pension!
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Old 09-06-2016, 02:30 PM   #9
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Conversely, we usually see forum posts complaining about friends and family who are trying to deter someone from early retirement out of concern that it will end badly. Once the die is cast, though, all that your friends & family can really do is say "Best wishes, have fun, hope all goes well."

People who have something to sell are another matter. If they are selling clothes, they will tell you you look terrific in that outfit, even if you don't. OTOH, if they are selling financial advice, I'm not sure what their incentive is to push someone into early retirement when it might be a bad idea. Are some of them like fortune-tellers, who sense what you really want to hear and then tailor their predictions to make you seem correct?
How about Mr Money Mustache? Why is he a star and some much more informative bloggers like Dirk Cotton et. al plodding along?

I think because MMM sells an important fantasy for many people. Even a relatively tame forum like ER.org, I wonder if most of us are really well served by putting so many things on hold while we keep our heads down and squirrel away nuts? Fantasy sellers are much more dangerous than even high end clothing store salespeople. Did you ever notice how many of the viewers on here at almost any time are visitors, not members?

Ha
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Old 09-06-2016, 03:36 PM   #10
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I think there should be a balance in your life. If you deny yourself pleasures that cost $ until you retire that day may never come. You can save $ and also have fun and experiences.
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Old 09-06-2016, 07:05 PM   #11
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It helps that MMM is an entertaining read. Peter Adeney admits that he's a little more brash with his MMM alter ego.

MMM isn't just selling a FIRE extreme idea. Many of his concepts revolve around analyzing what we spend our money on and whether it really makes us more happy or more efficient in utilizing our dollars or in life. Even if one does not go full tilt MMM style living, I think everyone can take a little bit away from his concepts. In the end, it's still up to everyone individually to make their choices and figure out for themselves what their goals are and what makes them happy.
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Old 09-06-2016, 07:11 PM   #12
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Yes, that's what I did. Read MMM once and that was enough for me.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:09 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
I am reading the book Decisive by Heath and Heath. It has lots of advice about the process of making good decisions and has several great ideas pertinent to tfb's piece and haha's comments.

I recommend that folks who are making decisions spend some time with the book. They will certainly make better decisions after reading the book ... not always, but I think they will up their ratio of good to not-good decisions.

Thanks- I just requested a copy from the library. Sounds interesting- thanks!
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:33 AM   #14
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I guess I'm getting negative responses because people are trying to talk me out of retiring- maybe when I actually turn in my resignation people will act supportive. For now, I have pretty much quit telling anyone anything, and to avoid the "But what will you DOOOOO?" I will tell them I am going to be a housewife and mom. No one will want to touch that I'm sure! Ugh.
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:53 AM   #15
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I guess I'm getting negative responses because people are trying to talk me out of retiring- maybe when I actually turn in my resignation people will act supportive. For now, I have pretty much quit telling anyone anything, and to avoid the "But what will you DOOOOO?" I will tell them I am going to be a housewife and mom. No one will want to touch that I'm sure! Ugh.
Ah...ignore them. Soon enough you will never hear from the again.
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:16 AM   #16
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I rarely ask other people's opinion when making a decision. I do my own research, get information from multiple sources, and reflect on it with as little external interference as possible. My decision to retire early was the fruit of years of reading and studying. I did not ask friends, family, or internet strangers to weigh in, either before or after making the decision (except DW of course).
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:39 AM   #17
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I rarely ask other people's opinion when making a decision. I do my own research, get information from multiple sources, and reflect on it with as little external interference as possible. My decision to retire early was the fruit of years of reading and studying. I did not ask friends, family, or internet strangers to weigh in, either before or after making the decision (except DW of course).
+1

Same here. Ultimately I based my own retirement decision and timing on my own thoughts, including years of reading, studying, and computations.

PEOPLE AT WORK: Once I announced my plans to retire, 100% of people at my workplace said I was retiring too early, couldn't afford it, and would be bored to tears and missing my work. WRONG!

FAMILY: My family said they had confidence in my mathematical capabilities (great family!) and so if I would really study the problem hard and work at it, then I could figure out how to retire and they would be confident in my retirement decision and timing. So, I did that.

OTHER FRIENDS: None of my other friends knew about my planning, other than F and he was interested and of course accepted my decisions as I made them.

INTERNET: Yes, I posted a lot and thought about what was said, but when it comes to making decisions I did that on my own.

They say that when we die, we are ultimately alone. I think the same is true for those who take that momentous leap from a full time career into full time retirement. If it flops, it's all on us. But hopefully it won't.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:47 AM   #18
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They say that when we die, we are ultimately alone. I think the same is true for those who take that momentous leap from a full time career into full time retirement. If it flops, it's all on us. But hopefully it won't.
This. I try to live my life in a way that when I am on my death bed, I will have few regrets and when it comes to what others thought of MY decisions; well, I won't give a damn.


Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.
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Old 09-08-2016, 04:36 AM   #19
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Whenever I read these posts, I wonder if there's something strange about where I worked. The only thing anybody says, when you announce your retirement, is some version of "Wow!/Congratulations!/I'm envious!/Are you going to stay in this area, or move?/Can I have your desk?"

I have never heard anyone tell anyone else that they will be bored, won't have enough to live on, or any of the other not-very-cheery remarks other people have encountered.

(I surmise that half the people I worked with are on this forum).

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+1


PEOPLE AT WORK: Once I announced my plans to retire, 100% of people at my workplace said I was retiring too early, couldn't afford it, and would be bored to tears and missing my work. WRONG!

FAMILY: My family said they had confidence in my mathematical capabilities (great family!) and so if I would really study the problem hard and work at it, then I could figure out how to retire and they would be confident in my retirement decision and timing. So, I did that.

OTHER FRIENDS: None of my other friends knew about my planning, other than F and he was interested and of course accepted my decisions as I made them.

INTERNET: Yes, I posted a lot and thought about what was said, but when it comes to making decisions I did that on my own.

They say that when we die, we are ultimately alone. I think the same is true for those who take that momentous leap from a full time career into full time retirement. If it flops, it's all on us. But hopefully it won't.
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:07 PM   #20
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I didn't ask my friends opinions either but some felt free to give it over and over.
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