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Any way around the Vanguard trading time limit?
Old 12-27-2013, 02:52 PM   #1
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Any way around the Vanguard trading time limit?

Have some extra cash that I was going to spread across a couple of funds. Can't stick any into the Total Stock fund since I had moved some money from there to Dividend Growth a month or so ago. Can't do anything until 24 Jan. Am I just stuck? The site says to forget about it.....
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:09 PM   #2
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You could buy the etf (VTI). See also Frequent trading policy - Bogleheads for ways around the trading restrictions.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:16 PM   #3
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A person could buy the S&P 500 since it is not the same. But the two funds are close in performance.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:19 PM   #4
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You could buy the etf (VTI). See also Frequent trading policy - Bogleheads for ways around the trading restrictions.
Yeah....I kind of thought about that. At some time in the next few years I need to figure out where to move our funds to when we move back to the UK. Right now I am just in Dividend Growth, Total International and Total Stock. Although I do think it is strange that it won't let me move money into the Total Stock.....but will let me move money into the Dividend Growth, which is where I moved some money from the Total Stock a month ago. But what I would like to end up with is some fund like Wellington (which they don't seem to do the etf version/UK of.....but do do Wellesley for some reason).....or maybe a balanced etf. Need to look into that to see if it is on the UK list for being ok.
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VTI
Old 12-27-2013, 03:21 PM   #5
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VTI

Yes, I believe the VTI ETF fund is the exact same fund - only it does not have any trading restrictions. It has more flexibility as it trades like a stock (e.g., you can trade in the middle of the day, set stop limits, etc.).
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:24 PM   #6
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I will use Total Stock index and 500 index mutual funds and their ETFs. That gives me four options.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:45 PM   #7
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If I type VTI into the Vanguard buy box, all I get are the International etf's.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:56 PM   #8
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Nope....still can't seem to do it. If you type VTI into the main Vanguard site it will come up with the VTI etf.....but if I do it while trying to actually exchange Money Market money to VTI it doesn't even show up.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:06 PM   #9
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You need to have a brokerage account to buy ETFs. You could call VG and have then set up a brokerage account attached to the account you want to use. The brokerage account will have access to the MM fund in the related fund account.

IIRC proportions of 64% 500 index, 28% midcap index and 8% small cap index are equal to Total Stock so you could buy those now and then flip them back to Total Stock after Jan 24 (watch for tax impacts of the switch back).

Alternatively you could set up a one-shot automatic exchange and then cancel it. From bogleheads:
Quote:
Set up a "one-shot" automatic purchase or exchange. "this rule does not apply to: ... Transactions made through Vanguard’s Automatic Investment Plan, Automatic Exchange Service ... Automatic Withdrawal Plan." Accounts held at Vanguard have a number of automatic options: automatic investment, automatic withdrawal, and automatic exchange. You set them up under "account profile." These account features are normally used for automatically recurring transactions, e.g. "exchange $500 from VTSMX (Total Stock Market Index Fund) into VBMFX (Total Bond Market Index Fund) on the 4th of every month," but you can set up starting and ending dates that result in only a single transaction occurring. The system does not let you schedule an automatic transaction for the next day, so this introduces a day or two delay before the transaction completes.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:12 PM   #10
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this is the vanguard link to the ETF:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0970&FundIntExt=INT

It has a link on the page that says "buy".

Note it says to buy Vanguard ETFs, you'll need a Vanguard Brokerage Services account. That is probably your issue.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:22 PM   #11
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Guess I will have to set up the brokerage account. If/when we head back to the UK I would be needing all of our funds into just a few etf's that the UK tax people consider ok. Preferably something simple (1 or 2 etf's) that my wife could handle if I am no longer breathing.
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:25 PM   #12
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Vanguard tells me that the fund and brokerage account functions/statements, etc will be merged "soon".
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Old 12-27-2013, 04:36 PM   #13
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I haven't done it, but I am told there are easy ways around the restrictions. Were they not listed in that link to Bogleheads?

Two that I remember are

1. Send in a letter, don't do it online.

2. Set up an automatic buy (say every month), then cancel that automatic buy after the first purchase.

With the above possibilities, I would not bother with VTI nor with opening a VBS account.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:21 PM   #14
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I haven't done it, but I am told there are easy ways around the restrictions. Were they not listed in that link to Bogleheads?

Two that I remember are

1. Send in a letter, don't do it online.

2. Set up an automatic buy (say every month), then cancel that automatic buy after the first purchase.

With the above possibilities, I would not bother with VTI nor with opening a VBS account.
With what I understand about US/UK taxes (scary what I DON'T know)....having a regular Total Stock market etc has some issues while living (for me it will be permanent) in the UK and having a lot of US funds. Some report their costs etc in a way that makes the UK happy. The VTI is a possibility for this. What I would like is a Wellington equivalent.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:25 PM   #15
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My bad, I meant just buy the Total Stock fund with one or both of those methods. Don't buy a different fund that you don't want. Buy the fund you want.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:37 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by F4mandolin View Post
With what I understand about US/UK taxes (scary what I DON'T know)....having a regular Total Stock market etc has some issues while living (for me it will be permanent) in the UK and having a lot of US funds. Some report their costs etc in a way that makes the UK happy. The VTI is a possibility for this. What I would like is a Wellington equivalent.
What I plan to do is have Wellington and Wellesley in my IRA's and a couch potato collection of VG ETF's in my brokerage account. The UK IRS definitely recognizes VG ETF's and will allow ~$17k of CG's free of tax followed by 18% on the rest of gains. It doesn't matter what funds you keep in tIRA's as all distributions are taxed as regular income, just like the US IRS.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:37 PM   #17
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Why not the S&P fund mentioned above with a little Extended market fund to match the Total stock market?
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:48 PM   #18
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Why not the S&P fund mentioned above with a little Extended market fund to match the Total stock market?
I think some form of this is what I will eventually end up with. Or an equivalent of Wellington + International combo.
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:36 PM   #19
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Why not the S&P fund mentioned above with a little Extended market fund to match the Total stock market?
This, and given the temporary nature of this issue I wouldn't even bother with the "extended" part of it.

Seems like the best option for ratio of pain-in-the-ass to similar asset allocation.
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