Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Any way around the Vanguard trading time limit?
Old 12-27-2013, 01:52 PM   #1
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
Any way around the Vanguard trading time limit?

Have some extra cash that I was going to spread across a couple of funds. Can't stick any into the Total Stock fund since I had moved some money from there to Dividend Growth a month or so ago. Can't do anything until 24 Jan. Am I just stuck? The site says to forget about it.....
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-27-2013, 02:09 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
photoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,301
You could buy the etf (VTI). See also Frequent trading policy - Bogleheads for ways around the trading restrictions.
photoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:16 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,563
A person could buy the S&P 500 since it is not the same. But the two funds are close in performance.
FANOFJESUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:19 PM   #4
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoguy View Post
You could buy the etf (VTI). See also Frequent trading policy - Bogleheads for ways around the trading restrictions.
Yeah....I kind of thought about that. At some time in the next few years I need to figure out where to move our funds to when we move back to the UK. Right now I am just in Dividend Growth, Total International and Total Stock. Although I do think it is strange that it won't let me move money into the Total Stock.....but will let me move money into the Dividend Growth, which is where I moved some money from the Total Stock a month ago. But what I would like to end up with is some fund like Wellington (which they don't seem to do the etf version/UK of.....but do do Wellesley for some reason).....or maybe a balanced etf. Need to look into that to see if it is on the UK list for being ok.
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
VTI
Old 12-27-2013, 02:21 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
Earl E Retyre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 539
VTI

Yes, I believe the VTI ETF fund is the exact same fund - only it does not have any trading restrictions. It has more flexibility as it trades like a stock (e.g., you can trade in the middle of the day, set stop limits, etc.).
Earl E Retyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:24 PM   #6
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marco island
Posts: 815
I will use Total Stock index and 500 index mutual funds and their ETFs. That gives me four options.
Gatordoc50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:45 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
If I type VTI into the Vanguard buy box, all I get are the International etf's.
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:56 PM   #8
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
Nope....still can't seem to do it. If you type VTI into the main Vanguard site it will come up with the VTI etf.....but if I do it while trying to actually exchange Money Market money to VTI it doesn't even show up.
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 03:06 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,264
You need to have a brokerage account to buy ETFs. You could call VG and have then set up a brokerage account attached to the account you want to use. The brokerage account will have access to the MM fund in the related fund account.

IIRC proportions of 64% 500 index, 28% midcap index and 8% small cap index are equal to Total Stock so you could buy those now and then flip them back to Total Stock after Jan 24 (watch for tax impacts of the switch back).

Alternatively you could set up a one-shot automatic exchange and then cancel it. From bogleheads:
Quote:
Set up a "one-shot" automatic purchase or exchange. "this rule does not apply to: ... Transactions made through Vanguard’s Automatic Investment Plan, Automatic Exchange Service ... Automatic Withdrawal Plan." Accounts held at Vanguard have a number of automatic options: automatic investment, automatic withdrawal, and automatic exchange. You set them up under "account profile." These account features are normally used for automatically recurring transactions, e.g. "exchange $500 from VTSMX (Total Stock Market Index Fund) into VBMFX (Total Bond Market Index Fund) on the 4th of every month," but you can set up starting and ending dates that result in only a single transaction occurring. The system does not let you schedule an automatic transaction for the next day, so this introduces a day or two delay before the transaction completes.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 03:12 PM   #10
Full time employment: Posting here.
Earl E Retyre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 539
this is the vanguard link to the ETF:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0970&FundIntExt=INT

It has a link on the page that says "buy".

Note it says to buy Vanguard ETFs, you'll need a Vanguard Brokerage Services account. That is probably your issue.
Earl E Retyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 03:22 PM   #11
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
Guess I will have to set up the brokerage account. If/when we head back to the UK I would be needing all of our funds into just a few etf's that the UK tax people consider ok. Preferably something simple (1 or 2 etf's) that my wife could handle if I am no longer breathing.
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 03:25 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,264
Vanguard tells me that the fund and brokerage account functions/statements, etc will be merged "soon".
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 03:36 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
I haven't done it, but I am told there are easy ways around the restrictions. Were they not listed in that link to Bogleheads?

Two that I remember are

1. Send in a letter, don't do it online.

2. Set up an automatic buy (say every month), then cancel that automatic buy after the first purchase.

With the above possibilities, I would not bother with VTI nor with opening a VBS account.
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 04:21 PM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
I haven't done it, but I am told there are easy ways around the restrictions. Were they not listed in that link to Bogleheads?

Two that I remember are

1. Send in a letter, don't do it online.

2. Set up an automatic buy (say every month), then cancel that automatic buy after the first purchase.

With the above possibilities, I would not bother with VTI nor with opening a VBS account.
With what I understand about US/UK taxes (scary what I DON'T know)....having a regular Total Stock market etc has some issues while living (for me it will be permanent) in the UK and having a lot of US funds. Some report their costs etc in a way that makes the UK happy. The VTI is a possibility for this. What I would like is a Wellington equivalent.
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 04:25 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,252
My bad, I meant just buy the Total Stock fund with one or both of those methods. Don't buy a different fund that you don't want. Buy the fund you want.
LOL! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 07:37 PM   #16
Administrator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire
Posts: 34,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by F4mandolin View Post
With what I understand about US/UK taxes (scary what I DON'T know)....having a regular Total Stock market etc has some issues while living (for me it will be permanent) in the UK and having a lot of US funds. Some report their costs etc in a way that makes the UK happy. The VTI is a possibility for this. What I would like is a Wellington equivalent.
What I plan to do is have Wellington and Wellesley in my IRA's and a couch potato collection of VG ETF's in my brokerage account. The UK IRS definitely recognizes VG ETF's and will allow ~$17k of CG's free of tax followed by 18% on the rest of gains. It doesn't matter what funds you keep in tIRA's as all distributions are taxed as regular income, just like the US IRS.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Enough private pension and SS income to cover all needs
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,983
Why not the S&P fund mentioned above with a little Extended market fund to match the Total stock market?
__________________
Took SS at 62 and hope I live long enough to regret the decision.
foxfirev5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 03:48 PM   #18
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfirev5 View Post
Why not the S&P fund mentioned above with a little Extended market fund to match the Total stock market?
I think some form of this is what I will eventually end up with. Or an equivalent of Wellington + International combo.
F4mandolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 08:36 PM   #19
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfirev5 View Post
Why not the S&P fund mentioned above with a little Extended market fund to match the Total stock market?
This, and given the temporary nature of this issue I wouldn't even bother with the "extended" part of it.

Seems like the best option for ratio of pain-in-the-ass to similar asset allocation.
tuixiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:57 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.