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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-04-2006, 12:45 PM   #41
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Retire Soon,

Your thoughts are exactly what is driving me. There are no guarantees in life and while I feel fine today, who knows about tomorrow? There a lot of things out there that I want to do yet. True, I don't particularly care for my job at this point; it is a means to an end. However, more importantly, I just want to be in charge of my time from here on out. I will never have the FI part, but I am oh so ready for the RE. Now all I need is the courage to move on.

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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-04-2006, 12:48 PM   #42
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retire Soon
setab,

Your question implies that people who quit their job in order to retire should only do so because they hate their career. This is far from the truth. I turn 55 this year and plan to retire in June. *I happen to love my job. *

I realize, however, that I only have so many good healthy years left in my life. *My good health can end in just one heartbeat. There is no way to predict how long we'll be able to enjoy quality in our lives, let alone be alive period.

Although, I find work very rewarding and enjoyable, I also have numerous other interests and activites that I enjoy, such as traveling, reading, camping, hiking, jogging, finance, gardening, and do-it-yourself projects, to name a few.

Unfortunately, having a job precludes my participation in these interests and activites on a full time basis. *If I continue working, there'll be many unfulfilled passions and missed opportunities. *Time can never be replaced. My remaining years are very precious and will not be exchanged for money because society says we should work well into old age.

Retire Soon
Wow, I agree with a lot of this, and other things that were said. *I've been in my current job for almost 6 years. *As jobs go, it's a pretty good one, though it's less fun as time goes on. *More stress, more responsibility all the time. *Add a 1+hour commute each way every day, and the week is pretty much shot without ever getting to the things that are really important to me. * I've had one encounter with cancer already. *I need time to get on with the rest of my life!

The nice thing about getting ready to FIRE from a job I like is that I don't feel like I'm FIRE-ing for the wrong reasons.

JMHO
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-04-2006, 02:45 PM   #43
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by setab
I'm just wondering if anybody here actually liked their job when they were working. If so, why retire? I can see leaving a job you hate, but why not find something you like to do and stay with it? Just curious.
I liked all of my jobs. I ERed because I didn't have enough free time to do things I liked even more.
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-04-2006, 07:38 PM   #44
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by setab
Exactly! I'm just trying to decide whether I fit the "retire now" profile even if I don't want to spend a lot of time looking at portfolios, withdrawal percentages, etc. I know myself too well. I just wouldn't do it.
Out of the nearly 2000 registered posters of this board, only a few of us talk investing & portfolio management. It's our obsession hobby and it helps us deal with our insecurity in the decisions we've made verify that we're the only ones doing it right.

Vanguard gives you plenty of tools to set & forget your portfolio and its withdrawals. Vanguard Diehards gives you plenty of support for doing so.

You fit the "ER now" profile if you'd rather do anything other than get up and go to the office...

Quote:
Originally Posted by davew894
I got to thinking more about your question and on my way in this morning, I thought of a list of why I want to FIRE. Some of these are funny, I suppose, most are serious and all are annoying.
Impressive list, Dave. I have a similar one from the submarine force that I'm going to have to dig up. It inspired me to do something about having to work for a living, and it sounds like your list is keeping your eye on the prize too!
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-04-2006, 08:24 PM   #45
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Re: Anybody like their job?

I loved my last career for the first 7 years or so, but then the company got sold, and then sold again and then sold again.* I got tired of training new owners, and finally decided I needed to focus on ER.* I put all my efforts into learning investing.* Luckly I suceeded, and was able to retire at 56.* The current owners of the company were pretty much un-trainable too, so after 18 years it was time to leave.* The downside of this whole FI thing (for me) is that I do focus too much on investments.* I'm working on reducing that focus, but I think it may be quite an effort (job), before I can comfortably (safely) do that.
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-05-2006, 08:49 AM   #46
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Re: Anybody like their job?

You fit the "ER now" profile if you'd rather do anything other than get up and go to the office...Why didn't somebody say so? I am definitely one of you! I feel better already.

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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-05-2006, 11:25 AM   #47
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Count me in also! I am seriously considering taking an early retirement if one is offered later this year. I will have over 33 years in at that time and I feel that it is time to move on to other things!

I had last week and this week off and I am dreading going back to work next week. I will have to start thinking about how many people would love to have my job and how it would feel to be unemployed and needing work and how grateful I should be to have my job. This is the type of talk that I have with myself when I need an attitude adjustment!

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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-05-2006, 11:36 AM   #48
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Sure, I have a great job as an Engineer. I get to solve problems for others, design better equipment and invent things. Even at that, there are so many things I enjoy doing and would like to have the freedom to pursue these activities while I am still young enough and healthy enough to enjoy it. What's the line? "So much time, so little to do......uh, reverse that"......
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-05-2006, 12:34 PM   #49
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:
I loved my last career for the first 7 years or so, but then the company got sold, and then sold again and then sold again. I got tired of training new owners, and finally decided I needed to focus on ER. I put all my efforts into learning investing. Luckly I suceeded, and was able to retire at 56. The current owners of the company were pretty much un-trainable too, so after 18 years it was time to leave. The downside of this whole FI thing (for me) is that I do focus too much on investments. I'm working on reducing that focus, but I think it may be quite an effort (job), before I can comfortably (safely) do that.
Seems that is a common thread by folks (liking their job for many years and some change ruins it). I dont know how folks can make it 30 years in the same place. Must be very flexible.
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-05-2006, 12:43 PM   #50
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by N2FIRE
"So much time, so little to do......uh, reverse that"......
That hasn't been our ER experience...
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-05-2006, 06:49 PM   #51
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by setab
I'm just wondering if anybody here actually liked their job when they were working.* If so, why retire?* I can see leaving a job you hate, but why not find something you like to do and stay with it?* Just curious.

Setab
Yes, I like my job. I generally like the people I work with, my work is challenging and dynamic, I have amazing autonomy to schedule my day/week/year, and it pays well. I'm very fortunate.

If I could afford to I would quit tomorrow! As much as I "like" my job there are many, many other things I would rather spend my time doing. Sleeping past 5:30AM comes immediately to mind.
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-06-2006, 06:49 AM   #52
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Re: Anybody like their job?

In general, most of my jobs (the tasks) are fine. The 'pain' is dealing with people.
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-06-2006, 08:11 AM   #53
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Re: Anybody like their job?

YRS to Go,

I don't know if I dare eat a peach, but I do not wear my pants rolled up.

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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-12-2006, 08:56 PM   #54
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davew894
Nords, if you do dig up your list, please let me know.
OK, I found it. It's a five-page two-column WordPerfect 4.x document on 9-pin dot-matrix tractor feed from mid-1991...

After I have the Smithsonian stabilize & preserve it I'm gonna have to retype it.
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-12-2006, 09:48 PM   #55
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Re: Anybody like their job?

After 26 years, the last 3 or so drinking cawfee and watching the puter screen, its time to go and find out what I wanna be when I grow up.

The job was good, but it is not something my body and mind yearns to do.* I will miss watching the young thangs in summer and spring strut their stuff on the corner of beaver and broad downtown manhattan, man, it makes me cry not seeing that anymore.

But the upside is getting a job as a UPS man or something, and making deliveries to de chicken ranch out in vegas, finding another S. bucks to drink cawfee at where there is those young thangs strutting by.* Yummmmmy. :

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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-12-2006, 11:25 PM   #56
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Re: Anybody like their job?

This has been an interesting (and overdue!) exercise in occupational therapy. I'm also hoping that it helps someone else to reach their own decision, or to at least start the discussion.

First, let me frame the context when I started this list on 18 June 1991. Our submarine & crew had just survived our 7-17 June portcall in Subic Bay, RP, where we had contended with two eruptions from Mt. Pinatubo (~20 miles away) as well as Tropical Storm Yunya & several volcanic earthquakes. Shore leave had gone from libertine hedonism to living hell overnight. Surprisingly none of our crew was killed. One of my shipmates had 50 stitches in his arm and another had been trapped in a collapsed building for 24 hours listening to people scream until they died.

I'd been up for 36 hours as the Duty Officer, beginning with an emergency reactor startup ("latch 'em & snatch 'em") and frantic repairs to the ship's diesel. (Shore power was not coming back.) The reactor was looking shaky because our seawater intakes were fouled with volcanic ash (a bad thing for reactor cooling). We feared sinking pierside because the topside was under a foot of volcanic ash. "Luckily" most of the crew returned aboard when the earthquake crumbled their six-story barracks, so we had plenty of guys topside shoveling ash in hardhats & gas masks with flashlights while the black steaming sky was split by red lightning-- at noon. Even if the weather lifted in the next 24 hours (it didn't) we had to remove the sail scaffolding and patch up the repairs. Somehow we held it all together, despite the XO & us department heads having to constantly fight with a traumatized CO who couldn't lead or make decisions but who could certainly second-guess us.

The next morning we rescued the rest of the crew & escaped to Guam, but the damage was in the million$. The engineroom cooling systems were a leaky disaster and Naval Reactors was whining concerned about several reactor-safety decisions that we'd freelanced in the heat of the moment. Our torpedo tube's valves & seals were clogged & ruined by ash, as were all of our antennas & periscopes. We spent four days in shift-work cleaning just to dispose of all the ash that had crept into computers, electronics, and ventilation & cooling systems. Even circuit breakers were tripping on clogged ash.

So during one watch as we chatted about our experiences (discussion-group therapy), I wrote the first draft of this list. Note that I was blissfully ignorant of the advantages or even the existence of the Navy Reserve.

What I like about the Navy, in no particular order:
- Human beings. Great officers like (insert mentor's names here).
- Battle stations & tactics in the simulators.
- Giving training talks.
- At-sea tactics & exercises.
- Great fellow officers like (insert shipmate names here).
- Great former officers like (another list of old shipmates).
- The benefits-- commissaries & exchanges, free gyms & pools.
- The chance to try out a different submarine wardroom (& CO).
- SSNs.
- The adventure, wherever it went to.
- Watching the movie every night (not that you've done that lately).
- Decaf coffee.
- Smart young sailors who answer the questions right the first time and don't bluff.
- Smart Chief Petty Officers & Leading Petty Officers who (see previous entry).
- Shore duty.
- Hawaii duty.
- Promotions-- the VIP treatment & deference can really go to your head.
- Engineering & ship's drills.
- Engineering watches, especially if we get to put the plant through its paces.
- Quiet engineering watches where we can chat.
- The knowledge that headhunters & HECO are dying to hire nuclear submariners.
- Hoping that the burnout of 1991-2 was temporary (it wasn't).

What I DON'T like about the Navy, in no particular order:
- Subhuman beings like (insert bad names here). "Leaders" that I can't respect or admire.
- Running into the same subhumans at subsequent duty stations.
- The feeling of apathy, helplessness, & frustration 11-16 June 1991 during Mt. Pinatubo.
- Spouse separation. Six-month WESTPACs, six-week EASTPACs, or weekly local ops are all equally bad.
- Being in a wardroom without friends. That won't improve when you're XO.
- The constant grind of pushing the squadron & maintenance shops for upkeep support, cleaning the boat, prepping for the next inspection, and getting ready for deployment. This may be end-of-tour burnout. (It wasn't.)
- Trident SSBNs, which incorporate all the bad of SSNs at a higher level of politics. The boomer good ol' days are gone forever.
- High-stress socializing when the wardroom is full of subhumans and their spouses.
- Incompetent department heads.
- Admin bozos (see previous entry).
- Bangor, Washington.
- Chinhae, ROK.
- Training clueless Junior OODs like (insert names here) who don't listen and aren't trying.
- Mission reports, especially when the Russians don't go to sea anymore.
- Counterdrug ops.
- Four-section import duty.
- Freezing submarine air conditioning.
- No air conditioning.
- The amount of administrivia an XO has to track.
- Lack of workouts, even ashore.
- Wardroom attitude-- very cut-throat & back-stabbing for minimal returns.
- West Loch's weapons loads.
- Drydock.
- Shipyard.
- Endless wardroom homages to "Wild Bill" alcoholics officers on other notoriously unsafe legendary submarines.
- Cutting slack to adulterous admirals while hammering JO indiscretions (insert long list here) and then complaining about the behavior of the younger generation.
- Eating lukewarm, mushy, fat-filled food provided by sullen cooks.
- Getting the time to do laundry.
- Having to institute punitive leadership for those who don't respond to anything else. "Holding accountable" vice training.
- CDO as XO. If there's anything worse than four-section import duty it's staying up all night in red goggles training OODs in the dark.
- Getting underway on a Friday for a Tuesday exercise because your CO isn't senior enough to pull a Monday underway timeslot.

Four years later I updated the list. We'd won the Cold War but the "peace dividend" was ensuring that the submarine force would be considerably smaller and not everyone in the game would get playing time. I wasn't selected for an XO tour and, although I didn't realize it for two more years, I'd already seen my last promotion. I had just escaped a horrible HQ staff duty and slowly recovering at a training command, but we were still encountering our share of drawdown problems. So the possibility of an early retirement seemed pretty attractive despite the massive pay cut.

The good things about a Navy early retirement, in no particular order:
- No more burnout stress. No more midwatch wakeups with my brain overspeeding.
- Not feeling trapped by the job, the family obligations, or the bosses.
- No fear of being deployed while spouse is deployed, forcing us to find other family to care for the kid.
- No before/after school childcare problems-- I'll be in the kitchen baking cookies.
- A fresh start. I won't be killing my mental & physical health for a few more years of pay.
- Investments are way ahead of schedule-- but confirm with retirement planning software. (We were right.)
- No more bozo leaders like (insert list here).
- I won't have to talk to bozo shipmates like (insert list here) any more.
- If I'm up at night I can still nap during the day. (Our kid did not sleep well.)
- I only have to drink coffee for the taste.
- I can save at least $200/month by taking over housecleaning & yardwork.
- I can spend more time on investing.
- I can handle rental-property repairs whenever there's a problem.
- Regular workouts & bike rides.
- I can explore other careers (or not).
- No more stand downs for "good order & discipline" or sexual harassment.
- I won't be worried about my next military duty station.
- Honey-dos from hell!

The not-so-good things about a Navy early retirement, in no particular order:
- No more steady paychecks (for the steady mortgage payments).
- Only a ~$17K annual pension instead of $25K (in 1997).
- Greatly reduced retirement portfolio.
- No earned income for IRA contributions.
- Might have to get a real job.
- "Daddy track" sacrifices for an uncaring kid?
- The extra 2-5 years of salary could pay for a lot of psychiatric treatment.
- Putting the pressure on spouse. We'll be transferred overseas or she'll be unaccompanied to Diego Garcia.
- What if I could stick around for 20 years or even promote (yeah, sure)?
- Honey-dos from hell!

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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-13-2006, 03:09 AM   #57
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Quote:

Exactly! I'm just trying to decide whether I fit the "retire now" profile even if I don't want to spend a lot of time looking at portfolios, withdrawal percentages, etc. I know myself too well. I just wouldn't do it.

setab
It is amazing the reluctance (in general not pointing to setab in particular) people have to allocate time to take care of their money and define and steer a FIRE strategy as opposed to the willingness they demonstrate to work for 60+ hours to care of someone else's problems !

The art of management is to convince someone else that your problems are his / her !!!

The art of FIRE is to convince yourself that what is good for you comes first. The time I spent taking care of my investments / trading / whatever was 10 times worth the time I spent for any company / organisation and more than 100 times the reward (as 100 * 0 is still zero). The weekly standard deviation of my net worth is more than my previous annual salary (I wasn't paid much ) and it's not the volat that has increased ! And it's the driver's seat, nobody tells you what is good for you any longer.

Spend time to take your OWN wheel and drive !
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-13-2006, 04:57 AM   #58
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Hmmm

I will repeat - one more time(ad infinitum). After investing since 1966 and being retired since 1993:

Hindsight being 20/20 and all that:

1. Don't waste time reading books, managing your investments or any of that crap.

2. LBYM - save your money early and often(auto deduct and DCA) and when YOU 'know' it's time to retire - RETIRE!

3. One lifecycle fund is all it takes - DUH! - like Vanguard Target Retirement Series. If you have amassed a big enough stash - live off dividends and interest - otherwise 4% is a good ballpark figure nowadays.

Looking back - all my 'investment management/er ah reading/education' was determental to my retirement.

Of course - that stuff I say not to do - is male, hormonal, biologically driven and incurable. Besides it's great fun - although costly for most of us.

heh heh heh - coffee pot's on - a couple cups and I'll mellow out.

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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-13-2006, 05:26 AM   #59
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Nords

Good list - two in, two out. The nephews plan to go till retirement. The two females dropped out - contractor/mommy track(wife of oldest nephew and youngest niece).

DUH! The little niece is the smartest one - BUT she married a MARINE (lifer).

Who says brains and common sense go together.

At least I got them to read some Bogle early on - although one has slipped over to 'the dark side' - Bernstein's Four Pillars - had a little chat with him about that but don't think it took.

Sigh! - More coffee.
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Re: Anybody like their job?
Old 01-13-2006, 07:28 AM   #60
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Re: Anybody like their job?

Nords, a dumb question for you: what's a wardroom and why is it so hazardous to one's health?
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