Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-07-2008, 10:10 PM   #81
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Here's a couple other websites on hypermiling and modifying your car for greater mileage:

Home - MetroMPG.com - Geo Metro, Chevrolet Metro / Swift, Pontiac Firefly, Suzuki Swift info and general fuel economy info

Hypermiling, Fuel Economy, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com

And if you really want to get crazy, you can copy this 95-mpg Civic:



http://forum.ecomodder.com/showthrea...290.html?t=290
__________________

__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-07-2008, 10:16 PM   #82
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead View Post
watch the video, he is pulsing the plates with high voltage at their resonant frequency and the water molecules fall apart. his experiments have been duplicated.
I'm not really interested enough to look at it, but off the cuff I'm going to guess that the high voltage with the resonant frequency also involves a flux capacitor, and that the total of that high voltage part exceeds the energy value of the hydrogen.

But if you get it to work, let me know. I have an old rav4 I might try to convert to hydrogen. Worst thing that happens if I screw it up is the dogs dont get a ride around the neighborhood three times a week.

Any pointers to people who have duplicated his results? According to the little bit I read, his work has never been independently reproduced, he was found guilty of fraud when he tried to sell his invention, and the whole idea violates the first law of thermodynamics.

So unless theres some plutonium in there, I think thats a 'no'.
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:17 PM   #83
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead View Post
watch the video, he is pulsing the plates with high voltage at their resonant frequency and the water molecules fall apart. his experiments have been duplicated.
I'm using a regular laptop, so the screen isn't very big. On a bigger monitor can you see the little water molecules jiggling apart?

The folks who have duplicated this are going to be rich, Rich, RICH! All those dumb physicists and engineers. Too blind, arrogant, and stupid to simply write this up in a peer reviewed journal and garner the fame that would come with it. Idiots!

I really DO wonder, though, if he got real patents, and how.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:19 PM   #84
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Homestead, no one is questioning if electrolysis works, that's been around for a long time. But the point is you need to read up on the first law of thermodynamics. Read the wiki link. The guy may have created hydrogen, but he used more energy to do it than he'll gain turning it back into water. This little scam gets trotted out every time gas prices get high, since the 70's at least.

Nukes involve nuclear ( or nucular if you prefer) fission, now you are playing in Einstein's world, you know, E=mc^2? A piece of matter ( a very small piece, the "m" in the equation) was actually destroyed to release a large amount of energy - equal to the matter destroyed x the speed of light (c) squared. Chemical reactions involve breaking and/or making covalent bonds, much less energy. Your ICE engine is breaking down complex molecules into simpler ones through a chemical reaction - burning.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:27 PM   #85
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 309
Its not conventional electrolysis its nuclear.

Stanley Meyer's water fuel cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Meyer demonstrated his vehicle for his city's local station Action 6 News and estimated that only 22 US gallons (83 liters) of water was required to travel from Los Angeles to New York."
__________________
homestead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:31 PM   #86
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Uh Dude, the link you posted says this:

"Thus, if the device operated as claimed, the combustion cycle would start and end in the same state while extracting usable energy, thereby violating the first law of thermodynamics and allowing operation as a perpetual motion machine. Meyer's claims about the Water Fuel Cell and the car that it powered were found to be fraudulent by an Ohio court in 1996.[1]
Similar devices have been promoted by others (see Water-fuelled car): there is no evidence that any of these devices operate as claimed."


When you are trying to promote something, don't post a link that cites proof you are wrong.....
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:32 PM   #87
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
To piggyback on laurencewill's post: The only way the "HHO" thing could even conceivably work is for matter to be converted into energy. This normally takes place at very high temperatures (nuclear reactors for a fission reaction, the inside of stars, and fission/fusion bombs). Now, there has been speculation about "cold fusion", and an experiment at the Univ of Utah which seemed to indicate that some type of nuclear reaction might be occurring at room temperature caused quite a stir about a decade ago. Still, this involved the use of heavy water, exotic materials (paladium, etc), etc. And, even after a very robust effort to detect what is going on, their experimental findings were not reproduced and only a few indications--probably produced by regular chemical reactions--of a hint of extra heat were documented.

Sorry, while it would be great to believe in this, it is not true.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:36 PM   #88
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
(Edit: Dang you two guys are fast, thats what I get for comprehensively quoting information...)

From the same article, previously linked by Sam:

"if the device operated as claimed, the combustion cycle would start and end in the same state while extracting usable energy, thereby violating the first law of thermodynamics and allowing operation as a perpetual motion machine."

"Similar devices have been promoted by others (see Water-fuelled car): there is no evidence that any of these devices operate as claimed."

"None of Meyer's claims about the car have been independently verified."

"His car was due to be examined by the expert witness Michael Laughton, Professor of Electrical Engineering at Queen Mary, University of London and Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering. However, Meyer made what Professor Laughton considered a "lame excuse" on the days of examination and did not allow the test to proceed. The Water Fuel Cell, on the other hand, was examined by three expert witnesses in court who found that there "was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and that it was simply using conventional electrolysis".

On the basis of the evidence the court found Meyer guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered to repay the investors their $25,000."

"To date, no one has used them [his readily available plans] to produce a working prototype."

So in short, it cant possibly work without violating basic principals of science, nobody has verified it works, it became unavailable to be looked at by court experts when the outcome would cost him a lot of money, and nobody has reproduced his works.

It seems that the quote you gave on the inventors claim is the only favorable thing in the entire wikipedia article.

What am I missing?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:40 PM   #89
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
I think at this point someone is supposed to chime in about the board's goon squad repressing opinions that fall outside of the established, strict dogma.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:44 PM   #90
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by laurencewill View Post
Uh Dude, the link you posted says this:

"Thus, if the device operated as claimed, the combustion cycle would start and end in the same state while extracting usable energy, thereby violating the first law of thermodynamics and allowing operation as a perpetual motion machine. Meyer's claims about the Water Fuel Cell and the car that it powered were found to be fraudulent by an Ohio court in 1996.[1]
Similar devices have been promoted by others (see Water-fuelled car): there is no evidence that any of these devices operate as claimed."


When you are trying to promote something, don't post a link that cites proof you are wrong.....
I think that article is out of date, I have seen and read others that have duplicated it.
__________________
homestead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:49 PM   #91
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead View Post
I think that article is out of date, I have seen and read others that have duplicated it.
If the laws of physics changed, we would all have heard about it, I promise.
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:51 PM   #92
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead View Post
I think that article is out of date, I have seen and read others that have duplicated it.
Show me.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:00 PM   #93
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead View Post
watch the video, he is pulsing the plates with high voltage at their resonant frequency and the water molecules fall apart. his experiments have been duplicated.
homestead - I hope you are not serious.

As the experts below indicate, you can use high voltage and 'resonant frequencies', but it is still hydrolysis. And that takes as much energy in as you get out.

But the plans are on the web. Go build one. Prove me wrong.

The link samclem had didn't work for me, but I found this:

Stanley Meyer's water fuel cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Lawsuit

In 1996, inventor Stanley Meyer was sued by investors to whom he had sold dealerships, offering the right to do business in Water Fuel Cell technology. According to The Times, Meyer claimed in court that his invention "opened the way for a car which would 'run on water', powered simply by a car battery."[1] The car would even run perpetually without fuel since the energy needed to continue the "fracturing" was low enough for the engine's dynamo to recharge the car's battery.[1] His car was due to be examined by the expert witness Michael Laughton, Professor of Electrical Engineering at Queen Mary, University of London and Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering. However, Meyer made what Professor Laughton considered a "lame excuse" on the days of examination and did not allow the test to proceed.[1] The Water Fuel Cell, on the other hand, was examined by three expert witnesses in court who found that there "was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and that it was simply using conventional electrolysis".[1]
On the basis of the evidence the court found Meyer guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered to repay the investors their $25,000.[1]
-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:05 PM   #94
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,269
woops - sorry for all the duplicate info, didn't see the flurry of posts in the past few minutes - ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:07 PM   #95
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
this involved the use of heavy water, exotic materials (paladium, etc), etc.
Now theres some stuff you'd like to have in a big bucket right behind your head when Suzy on the cell phone driving the Excursion plows into you.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:07 PM   #96
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
Show me.

I don't want to distract this thread any more if you want more info
go to youtube and search for Stan Meyer.

Cheers
__________________
homestead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:07 PM   #97
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead View Post
watch the video, he is pulsing the plates with high voltage at their resonant frequency and the water molecules fall apart. his experiments have been duplicated.
Hrmph. In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics.
__________________
M Paquette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:11 PM   #98
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,269
OK, time for a different approach...

homestead, I can do better. I have plans for a car that can get from Los Angeles to New York using only 1 gallon (~ 4 liters) of water. That's 22x better than that Stanley Meyer's car! That slacker!

I will sell the plans to you. This offer is only valid for a limited time - don't delay! Not available in stores!

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:32 PM   #99
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 309
read this for more info

http://www.aero2012.com/en/documents..._Full_Data.pdf
__________________
homestead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:54 PM   #100
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Homestead, come on man, are you for real? Are you not even reading the links you are posting? It's a sham. You have half a dozen people trying to point out the obvious, the basics. If you are really dead set on this, then build it yourself. You'll see the wheels come off quickly.

EDIT: Oh wow, I opened the pdf just for fun, and the crux of his argument is that he is the hand of God here to change the rules of physics with his holy power. Gotcha - have fun with that.
__________________

__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High Gas Prices godoftrading Other topics 6 05-03-2008 05:09 AM
Correlation between elections and gas prices? bright eyed Other topics 34 03-20-2007 07:11 PM
Will gas prices jump after the election? Zoocat Other topics 7 11-20-2006 02:31 PM
Gas prices.................................... Dawg52 FIRE and Money 65 09-23-2006 07:15 AM
What's Up with Gas Prices? Gonzo Other topics 48 08-30-2006 03:40 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:25 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.