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Old 04-07-2014, 04:26 PM   #21
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I'm just feeling proud of myself today because I just submitted my lightly complicated taxes, done with TurboTax and a Lasser's book ALL BY MYSELF.

Now, for a beer........ (I'm going to pay DW 0.3% to open it for me. I don't wanna bother learning how.)
I plan to join you in that beer.... Next Year
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:13 PM   #22
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I'm not sure much money is being made by this product. I think it gives Vanguard a better shot at capturing and keeping newer investors. They are perceived as providing inexpensive and useful services by these folks. They aren't losing new business to Wealthfront and Betterment. Over time, the assets grow and some folks "graduate" to Voyager Select and Flagship level accounts.
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:59 PM   #23
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I did let them give me a free analysis when I first moved funds to Vanguard. I was totally UNIMPRESSED!!! I think they let the rookies do the work. Anyone could have done what they did. Perhaps, as someone here said, if a spouse or mentally infirm person needs help .. perhaps ?
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:24 PM   #24
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0.3% to essentially invest in Vanguard Target Retirement 20XX?

I think it is great that they are offering the service, and at a reasonable enough price. It doesn't seem too hard to do it yourself, but I've been researching the problem for 20 years. Most good retirement investment studies are younger than that. I would hope those taking advantage of the Vanguard program would start to do it themselves when they see how easy it is.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:15 PM   #25
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Looks like it is new, so probably nobody has experience with it yet.

Vanguard Personal Advisor Services Manages Your Accounts At An Affordable Price | Bogleheads® Blog

0.3% fee, $100K minimum in combined VG accounts, and you can stop anytime, so it might be a reasonable thing for someone who needs some hand holding to start with but wants to get to managing on their own.

Thanks for the link to that. This might be a really good alternative for DW after I'm deceased or incompetent. (Some call me a cynic. I prefer to think of it as being realistic.)

It looks like I or she could send them my investment plan (which spells out asset allocations, by category and by specific Vanguard funds, along with rebalancing criteria), and tell the advisor to make it so.
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:08 PM   #26
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Rather interesting, in regards I understand that John Bogle and the new administration at Vanguard have been at odds about the way things are being handled since he retired. Wonder if this is one of those items of contention...
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Old 05-20-2016, 10:17 AM   #27
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If you meet the Voyager Select or Flagship criteria and are comfortable with doing everything yourself, a fee based service is unnecessary. This product seems to be targeted to the newer investors in the $100-$500k range that would do better with some hand holding. A lot of folks aren't comfortable rebalancing or aren't focused enough to handle this or other aspects of investing efficiently. For those folks, most of whom would not want to pay a financial planner to draw up a plan, this is relatively inexpensive guidance and education.
I just heard about this service yesterday, even though it's apparently been around for a few years now. I went to this article which introduces the service.

Apparently now, you have to only have at least $50K, and the 0.3% annual fee is charged regardless of the size of your portfolio ... regardless of whether you meet Voyager or Flagship status or not.

Still, I agree with other earlier posts. This seems to be a good service for some situations, but not generally for those people who frequent this forum.
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Old 05-20-2016, 08:58 PM   #28
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The person "Assigned" to my portfolio called ( (not initiated by me) me today . I did not answer and just let my voice mail pick up.
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Old 05-20-2016, 09:06 PM   #29
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I wouldn't pay Vanguard a dime more. They are cheap for a reason. I have account with them but getting advice from them. They can't even process my paperwork correctly.
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:02 AM   #30
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I wouldn't pay for an ongoing service, but I think most people can get the one-time free service. I was very happy with that. I was transferring in to Vanguard a bunch of 401K's at different brokerages.

Yes the mutual fund picks and allocations pretty much matched the ones in the target funds, but the advisor created a detailed plan with my amounts coming in and where they should go. Also there were some tax-advantage details that I did not know, and things I did not think about like having an equity and bond bucket set up in IRA and taxable accounts so you have something to put the money in when rebalancing.

Also he ran whatever the Vanguard correlate is to FireCalc and confirmed that my assets have a 99% chance of getting me to I think 95. It was reassuring to have another pair of eyes looking at it.
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Old 05-21-2016, 05:41 AM   #31
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I recently got a letter from Vanguard offering their Personal Advisor Services. It appears this is a new service (but not sure). And am also not sure if there is a fee for this. I'm tempted to contact them. Does anyone have any experience with this service?
My friend works for Ameriprise and has been doing that for about 15 years. He is a person of high integrity and wouldn't work for them if he didn't believe in what they do. His work is a financial planner as well as investment counselor.

I had not thought I would need one and in fact I pretty much had our retirement thought out but DW wasn't convinced. So I called my friend who came to my home and now DW and I are beginning to talk the same song. We both have different things we would like to do but those things are beginning to be more alike than it was when we got to my retirement date. If someone wants the number to Ameriprise or if they live in the New England area and want my friends number just PM me.

Oh just for an addendum Ameriprise charges a whopping $800 per year with no on going obligation. If you don't like the advisor you can just say thanks. Taking the plan they gave you and keeping it. So it is entirely up to you if you want to continue.

Last point I want to say is you do not have to have a financial planner as you grow older and save for your retirement. That is fairly easy. It is at the point when you begin to make the transition from accumulation to spending that a plan is advisable. If you are single then it is pretty simple. If you are married it might be a different story. It gets both spouses thinking about what they want out of their retirement.
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Anyone used Vanguard's Personal Advisor Services?
Old 05-21-2016, 06:58 AM   #32
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Anyone used Vanguard's Personal Advisor Services?

Vanguard's service is our option in event of my early death for DW as well. As long as I'm vertical, I plan to manage the investments but DW doesn't have the interest or experience and would prefer some help at a reasonable cost.

As for Ameriprise, I was an advisor/ planner with them many years ago for about a year. At least then, the financial planning was the hook to get the asset management business. Variable annuities baby. Great commissions for the planner. I was young, naive and thought I was doing the right thing for my clients.


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Old 05-21-2016, 07:19 AM   #33
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My friend works for Ameriprise and has been doing that for about 15 years. He is a person of high integrity and wouldn't work for them if he didn't believe in what they do. His work is a financial planner as well as investment counselor.

I had not thought I would need one and in fact I pretty much had our retirement thought out but DW wasn't convinced. So I called my friend who came to my home and now DW and I are beginning to talk the same song. We both have different things we would like to do but those things are beginning to be more alike than it was when we got to my retirement date. If someone wants the number to Ameriprise or if they live in the New England area and want my friends number just PM me.

Oh just for an addendum Ameriprise charges a whopping $800 per year with no on going obligation. If you don't like the advisor you can just say thanks. Taking the plan they gave you and keeping it. So it is entirely up to you if you want to continue.

Last point I want to say is you do not have to have a financial planner as you grow older and save for your retirement. That is fairly easy. It is at the point when you begin to make the transition from accumulation to spending that a plan is advisable. If you are single then it is pretty simple. If you are married it might be a different story. It gets both spouses thinking about what they want out of their retirement.
And be sure to add in the funds' expenses. Were there trading costs?
That all has to be taken into account. That would be a fantastic deal if the advisor fee were held to just $800 per year.

For a Vanguard PAS, you would calculate a weighted expense ratio of all funds and ETFs invested in. Then add the PAS fee of .30.

On a 1M portfolio invested with Vanguard, and average weighted expense ratio across all funds of .15 (for example), you would end up with .45 expense ratio when adding the PAS. This would amount to $4500 in actual fees, both to PAS and to internal funds (and ETFs) for one year.

We are prepared to work things out on our own. We use the lowest cost index funds across all investment accounts. The weighted e/r is just under .16. So the expenses on a 1M portfolio would be about $1600 per year.

Honestly, we don't need to pay anyone additional fees. However, when one of us goes to the great forum in the sky, it is understood that some advice may be required to consolidate.
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:28 AM   #34
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Vanguard's service is our option in event of my early death for DW as well. As long as I'm vertical, I plan to manage the investments but DW doesn't have the interest or experience and would prefer some help at a reasonable cost.

As for Ameriprise, I was an advisor/ planner with them many years ago for about a year. At least then, the financial planning was the hook to get the asset management business. Variable annuities baby. Great commissions for the planner. I was young, naive and thought I was doing the right thing for my clients.


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You might have been. It is a matter of perception. My friend looked at it this way. He worked for another financial company. I don't remember which he told me but after going through the interview process and he is at his desk at the office the supervisors came to him with a blank piece of paper and asked him to list all family and friends and they were going to visit them. He sat at his desk and thought long and hard about this. At the end of the day he went to the boss and handed them a blank piece of paper said goodbye and never looked back. He found Ameriprise right after that and he had already had license in investing and insurance so his qualifications were good. Ameriprise did not ask him for those in fact they were pretty adamant that he would be wise not to do that especially initially because it might affect the relationship.

Take this ahead 15 years or so and he still works for Ameriprise. He came to my house with one objective in mind. He and I talked about stuff and I wasn't sure if my wife would buy into what he would say either so I told him that. We are pretty savvy at stuff and can smell a rat and a trap. We have fallen into a few of them. When it was said and done my wife hired him. We have had him at our home 3 times as we work through our financial plan.

Our next step is to complete our short and long term plans. We have made adjustments to our investments and no before you ask we didn't transfer any funds to him. What the plan will do is give my wife a road map to follow in my demise. It provides me the same as we will have all the forms lined up and our safe has the stuff that needs to be protected.

I am not saying you didn't feel that way. I am just saying that my experience with Ameriprise has been positive. They are regulated by a number of laws and rules. It is important that you understand those rules and understand any advice you are given. I say ask the questions that will give you the answers. If they can't explain then they need to try again or send someone that can explain. You do have to listen though because the concepts are strange to some. Maybe not so much here with the smart folks on ER but some people even in a very low income and savings situation that could use a road map.

In answer to your question target2019 is that is just the financial planning. No money or investments were made. There are fee and they do that. They explain that and since I am not investing with them I am not paying that. My daughter will get a new Roth paid for by us beginning today and I will learn the fees but as I remember them they seemed reasonable as he explained them. I believe that they amounted to less than 2% annually. I will post them tonight or tomorrow when I get a chance. I told him to find us a few funds that would allow us a 70/30 mix of funds with more or less a target date of 2050. We might be investing in one of those but I have not seen the options yet. My daughter works for Dept of Children and Families (a social worker) and will have a nice pension from the state if she stays in for 30 years. We are just supplementing her retirement by gifting 5k per year to be put in her Roth. As long as she leaves it in there we will continue to invest for her. She is our only child so we can do that without much of a problem.
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Anyone used Vanguard's Personal Advisor Services?
Old 05-21-2016, 07:33 AM   #35
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Anyone used Vanguard's Personal Advisor Services?

I've worked for a large financial institution for many years and I would never trust any of them. I am often gravely disappointed with some of their choices/behaviors...

Let's say you choose a large financial institution to manage your money.. They've got new product and it isn't selling very well.. Ask yourself what kind of pressure will your financial manager get to put some his clients funds into that loser? When was the last time you've heard of an advisor being prosecuted for choosing inappropriate investments for his client.

I'll stick with low cost highly diversified mutual funds thank you...
Study after study says no one beats the market over time so why pay to lose?


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Old 05-21-2016, 07:47 AM   #36
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I am just saying that my experience with Ameriprise has been positive.
In the 14 years I've been reading this forum this is the only time I can recall seeing a positive statement regarding Ameriprise.
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Old 05-21-2016, 08:04 AM   #37
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In answer to your question target2019 is that is just the financial planning. No money or investments were made. There are fee and they do that. They explain that and since I am not investing with them I am not paying that. My daughter will get a new Roth paid for by us beginning today and I will learn the fees but as I remember them they seemed reasonable as he explained them. I believe that they amounted to less than 2% annually. I will post them tonight or tomorrow when I get a chance. I told him to find us a few funds that would allow us a 70/30 mix of funds with more or less a target date of 2050. We might be investing in one of those but I have not seen the options yet. My daughter works for Dept of Children and Families (a social worker) and will have a nice pension from the state if she stays in for 30 years. We are just supplementing her retirement by gifting 5k per year to be put in her Roth. As long as she leaves it in there we will continue to invest for her. She is our only child so we can do that without much of a problem.
Sounds like a reasonable amount for a plan. If it fits your needs, even better.
BTW, most in this forum believe that 2% in fees for a fund or etf are not reasonable.
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Old 05-21-2016, 08:13 AM   #38
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BTW, most in this forum believe that 2% in fees for a fund or etf are not reasonable.
You win the prize for Understatement of the Day.
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Old 05-21-2016, 08:21 AM   #39
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You win the prize for Understatement of the Day.
Still plenty of time to go in this day! Other winners may be in play as we speak.

Where marriage is a factor, the amount paid to an FA could be less than the price of years of unhappiness when "you didn't listen."

This reminds me of paying a consultant to come in and take the fall.

Some of use learn by different methods. I was very comfortable reading a Bogle book, and declaring that was the way. Some want to pay more for financial education. It all works out, I suppose.
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Old 05-21-2016, 08:50 AM   #40
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My friend works for Ameriprise and has been doing that for about 15 years. He is a person of high integrity and wouldn't work for them if he didn't believe in what they do. His work is a financial planner as well as investment counselor.

I had not thought I would need one and in fact I pretty much had our retirement thought out but DW wasn't convinced. So I called my friend who came to my home and now DW and I are beginning to talk the same song. We both have different things we would like to do but those things are beginning to be more alike than it was when we got to my retirement date. If someone wants the number to Ameriprise or if they live in the New England area and want my friends number just PM me.
All well and good. OTH, the Amerprise office near me (Chicagoland) are complete crooks. They take advantage of clients, and belittle them behind their backs. Meetings were all about generating fees, advisors who didn't were fired. How do I know? DW was executive assistant to the branch GM for almost 2 years, and saw the abuse daily. Needless to say, we didn't invest there. DW quit in disgust in under 2 years.

Caveat emptor as always...
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