Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-28-2010, 04:29 PM   #21
Full time employment: Posting here.
Urchina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post

I guess today's generation of youngins (born in the last 30 years) has not had to live with a difficult economy, the Draft or deadly wars (a la WW 1/2, Korea, Vietnam). We are coming off a multi-decade period of general prosperity and technological progress. The sky appears to be the limit.

I do think the current young generation has no clue about certain things. Like the concept of working hard for something and saving for it..

Like none of this generation grew up in Detroit, or anywhere in the Rust Belt, or in timber country after the industry crashed? Many of us grew up in areas deeply affected by difficult economies.

And if the "current young generation has no clue about certain things," perhaps we should be taking a close look at the attitude of the ones who taught them. The current national debt, private debt, and subprime mortgage mess are largely the work of folks over 35. This is partly because of opportunity (few nineteen-year-olds are buying houses) but still worth noting.

There are plenty of us who work hard, save our money, and are respectful, contributing members of society. Several of the folks we know our age provide substantial financial support to family, often parents or grandparents. I can think of a few dissolute spendthrifts, but just a handful, and I'm living in swinging' Cali where spending money on frivolous things isn't considered gauche.

And all of this is just to point out that generational labeling isn't terribly helpful, nor terribly accurate.
__________________

__________________
"You'd be surprised at how much it costs to look this cheap." -- Dolly Parton
Urchina is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-28-2010, 04:49 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,356
No doubt.

The idea that this younger generation is any worse that the ridiculous Boomer generation is, well, ridiculous.

If there has ever been a more priviledged, self-centered, self-righteous, whiny generation than the Boomers I'd be hard pressed to name it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Urchina View Post
Like none of this generation grew up in Detroit, or anywhere in the Rust Belt, or in timber country after the industry crashed? A little more credit, please.

And if the "current young generation has no clue about certain things," perhaps we should be taking a close look at the attitude of the ones who taught them that they can have what they want without working for it.

There are plenty of us who work hard, save our money, and are respectful, contributing members of society. In fact, the vast number of people my age or younger that I've met are like this. I can think of a few dissolute spendthrifts, but just a handful, and I'm living in swinging' Cali where spending money on frivolous things isn't considered gauche.

Kids these days... sheesh.
__________________

__________________
Hamlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 04:52 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
If there has ever been a more priviledged, self-centered, self-righteous, whiny generation than the Boomers I'd be hard pressed to name it.
All about me? College kids lack empathy - Behavior- msnbc.com

__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 04:56 PM   #24
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urchina View Post
Like none of this generation grew up in Detroit, or anywhere in the Rust Belt, or in timber country after the industry crashed? Many of us grew up in areas deeply affected by difficult economies.
True, but there are two big differences:

1. These were regional economic depressions, not national or global ones. Yes, they tended to coincide with a weak domestic economy but the real devastation from the decline of certain industries in the past 30-40 years was more of a local devastation.

2. These days there seem to be few (if any) occupational "safe havens." For a while, government, education and health care seemed to be the "job security" fields, but with so many government bodies facing the need for austerity and with health care in flux (though nursing might still be almost immune in terms of overall job opportunities though there could be short-term displacements) it's really looking like this is affecting all industries on a nationwide (and global) level.

Taken together I think it's snapped a lot more people into a reality check, even if they have never been unemployed. Few people can say "it's not in my industry" or "it's not in my local economy" so they don't have to be extra cautious. This recent mild depression/deep recession (take your pick) and the sluggish attempts to climb out of it have served almost everyone on notices who works for a paycheck. And that notice says: hoard cash -- save, don't spend, because you may be next.

So the what the Boomers faced as young adults and what young adults face today are, in many ways, considerably different. Young boomer displacements and unemployment were more sporadic and non-persistent. This one feels otherwise. The Class of 2010 is coming on the scene when a huge number of the Class of 2009 is trying to find a job or move up from waiting tables and delivering pizzas -- almost regardless of their educational background. I think today's young adults are getting the message much quicker than the Boomers did. The Boomers figured they just needed to change locations, or change careers or wait a couple of years and the economy will boom again. I don't feel like 20-somethings today expect that by and large.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 05:23 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Hamlet, Urchina, et al, I think your point is very well made. I have never harbored complaints about today's younger people. What I was really focused on and mislabeled was niece's ridiculous expectations about weddings, marital support, and making one's way in the world. Part of the issue I think is that she is very pretty, and has been able to do a lot of riding on her looks, though obviously she is also quite bright.

I am sure that there are many young folks who get married at the beach or at their parents' or in their own backyards, just like we did, but I do have some experience with lavish weddings in far off places that are expensive, and/or tiresome to travel to. One DIL's mother wanted them to be married in Rome. So I just said, “Where should I send your gift"? They wound up having a lovely but inexpensive wedding in a local church, and had a great reception in the garden and the church basement. It was all paid for by the bride and groom, with the groom's brother hiring the DJ and buying a huge amount of quality booze.

I'll see if the mods can re-title the piece.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 05:45 PM   #26
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
I'll see if the mods can re-title the piece.
At your service.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 05:49 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
At your service.
Thanks very much Gumby. I really had not thought through the ageism in my original title, which is something that I emphatically do not believe. I think my sons for example are more hard working and sober than I was at their ages, and the same is true of most of their friends. They may spend more freely though, but that may be because they have more to spend than I did. I had little savings until well into my thirties. And, this is a small example of high earning to very very high earning young men and women, and in no way gives an accurate picture of a generation, or even of a generation in their industry and in this locale.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 06:05 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 7,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARS View Post
She did!
I'm glad you told us, never would I have thought that.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Full time wuss.......
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 06:05 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,571
As pessimistic and depressed as I usually am about too many people and too many countries living beyond their means, the conversation I had with a group of people from my firm on Thursday was quite uplifting:

all were in their mid 20s to late 30s (I think I was the only person over 40)

they comprised a mix of positions: secretaries, junior and mid ranking professionals and senior middle/back office

as happens in Hong Kong, the property market was discussed and this led to a discussion about investments

both of the secretaries owned their own apartments. One was saying she wanted to wait for the market to drop before she traded up to a larger home. The other was saving for the deposit on a second apartment to rent out as an investment and was complaining that she would have to wait another couple of years before she could afford the deposit

one of younger professionals said she wasn't going to buy her own place because she was saving her money to go to university to do post-grad and didn't want to have to make mortgage payments while she wasn't working

etc etc etc

Every single one of them was saving and investing - including two who came from very wealthy families.

While there are differences between generations, the anecdotal evidence makes it doubtful whether a propensity to save is one of those differences.
__________________
Budgeting is a skill practised by people who are bad at politics.
traineeinvestor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 07:39 PM   #30
Full time employment: Posting here.
ESRwannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 626
I don't know of anyone else in "real life" that saves/invests money like I do. The only one I have ever tried to influence is my brother. I hope that one day he will start saving for retirement. I don't want him to suffer in his old age, because he couldn't delay gratification.

For everyone else I would never discourage them from what they are doing. For one it isn't worth the effort. People are going to do what they want to do, especially when it comes to money. Second they are the engine that keeps the ball rolling. We can't all retire. Someone has to work. Someone has to do the crap jobs. I am estatic that they are volunteering to do it and I will be able to jump off the hamster wheel a decade from now when I am 45 or so.
__________________
ESRwannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 10:22 PM   #31
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Yeah my adult kids are so much more financially savvy than DH and I are. We threw a lovely overpriced wedding when our daughter was married (and she was most grateful and surprised that we could and would) but guess what? No one put a gun to our head to do it. It was something we wanted to do and we loved every minute of it.

I imagine Ha's cousin derived some pleasure out of his expenditure, or else he needs to develop a backbone.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2010, 11:41 PM   #32
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by LARS View Post
Have a neice who was given the option of cash for a down payment on a house or spend $100,000 on a wedding. Guess which she chose...
Wow, I just posted a new thread in which part of it was a rant against the Marital Industrial Complex.

The best thing the father (OK, I realize I'm being patriarchal here) of the bride can do is loan (i.e., an official loan recorded by the clerk of court) his newly married child a sizable amount for the starter house as a 2nd, and then simply not take the payments (i.e., make a gift of the payments.) This does a few important things:

- makes it so that the gift would not be considered as community property in case his in-law becomes an ex-law

- allows the couple to be more bankruptable, so that if that should occur, the unsecured creditors would take the hit, not the gift

- allows for a better use of any means tested benefit or programs, as the loan would show up as an expense
__________________
swampwiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 12:07 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,356
Yes, the path to true adulthood and independence can be a difficult one, and there is a fairly large group of every generation that never really seems to make it.

I think parents need to be clear with their children from a fairly young age about their expectations for school, employment, etc. I think any sense of entitlement to things without effort needs to be squashed pretty quickly.

My friend's son is finishing his first year of college, and he seems to be having a hard time accepting the fact that he is going to need to work a lot of hours doing pretty tedious things to pay for it. I think my friend will be successful in prodding him into getting off his butt and finding a job, but if he isn't, at some point he will need to cut off the gravy train. I don't think children benefit from being allowed to freeload into their twenties.

My dad is experiencing this with my much younger brother (I'm 37, he's 21). He flunked out of college, and is now taking a single summer class at community college and working a part-time (under 20 hrs per week). At some point I think my dad will need to give him the boot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Hamlet, Urchina, et al, I think your point is very well made. I have never harbored complaints about today's younger people. What I was really focused on and mislabeled was niece's ridiculous expectations about weddings, marital support, and making one's way in the world. Part of the issue I think is that she is very pretty, and has been able to do a lot of riding on her looks, though obviously she is also quite bright.

I am sure that there are many young folks who get married at the beach or at their parents' or in their own backyards, just like we did, but I do have some experience with lavish weddings in far off places that are expensive, and/or tiresome to travel to. One DIL's mother wanted them to be married in Rome. So I just said, “Where should I send your gift"? They wound up having a lovely but inexpensive wedding in a local church, and had a great reception in the garden and the church basement. It was all paid for by the bride and groom, with the groom's brother hiring the DJ and buying a huge amount of quality booze.

I'll see if the mods can re-title the piece.

Ha
__________________
Hamlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 02:57 AM   #34
Recycles dryer sheets
ikubak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
I think today if I went up to a random friend or associate and said "I don't own a cell phone because they are too darn expensive and we just can't afford it anymore", most people would not blink an eye. If I would have tried that 3 years ago, the response probably would have been "what you can't afford $100 a month? I thought you were doing well."
So can I assume from this that you don't actually have a cell phone? I don't have one either, and I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who doesn't have one other than myself. I love the looks I get when people ask me for my cell number and I tell them I don't have one. What? Isn't a home number and a work number enough? I don't understand how people like our student workers and entry level employees have cell phones at 50 to 100 per month and consider it a necessity rather than a convenience. I know there are people who "need" a cell phone. My wife has one for her work and it truly is a necessity, but at least Megacorp is paying for it. She says when she quits working, the cell phone is history.
__________________
Retire date Jan. 5, 2018
ikubak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 07:05 AM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Purron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever View Post
Yeah my adult kids are so much more financially savvy than DH and I are. We threw a lovely overpriced wedding when our daughter was married (and she was most grateful and surprised that we could and would) but guess what? No one put a gun to our head to do it. It was something we wanted to do and we loved every minute of it.

I imagine Ha's cousin derived some pleasure out of his expenditure, or else he needs to develop a backbone.
How lovely you gave your daughter a beautiful wedding. What makes it even more lovely is her attitude - one of gratitude instead of entitlement. That's the key difference between her lavish wedding and the one Ha described.
__________________
I purr therefore I am.
Purron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 07:24 AM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Posts: 1,004
DH and I had made all the arrangements acc. to our own budget. After the event my parents told us that they would take over the cost of the event, being the parents of the bride. I had no idea they would.
We just wanted a reasonable, nice location and party. Everybody liked it and had a lot of fun.

My rule (after 25 happy years of marriage and being a lawyer): never pay more for a wedding than for a divorce.
__________________
chris2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 09:19 AM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,446
I think weddings is one of those things that rather obviously separate the LYBMers from the spendthrifts.

Some folks (spendthrifts) get all caught up in the excesses that are strongly encouraged by the wedding industry, and perhaps to some extent social one-up-manship. These people act as if it is the most important thing they could ever spend money on and are willing to go into ridiculous debt or drain their parents savings. All in the name of some glorified ?

Others (LYBMers) look that the ridiculous spending that goes on in many weddings, and quickly figure out that it's a poor investment. They figure out ways to celebrate the occasion that do not break the bank and focus on getting the most bang for the buck.

I think the wedding very much shows how the couple are going to handle finances for the rest of their lives (unless one set of parents has taken over and is calling all the shots along with the bankroll).

Audrey
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 09:42 AM   #38
Full time employment: Posting here.
Cattusbabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
I remarried into a family that has a few parasites and it has given me an eye opening perspective on giving. In order for this relationship to go on you need a willing host and a willing parasite. The parasite part is easy, but the revelation for me is that a lot of the hosts really get a lot of enjoyment from their side of the deal. They can control the lives of the parasite(s) somewhat, they get to be the big shot who has the extra money to spare and the status that goes with that, and they feel good about themselves because they have "helped" someone out.

Me - I'm the cheap b@st@rd that "has all his money invested", unavailable for "loans".
You hit the nail squarely on the head. A big thumbs up.
__________________
A todos los amantes del mundo. No importa el color de su piel, la pasion es universal.
_______________

La tavola e il letto non hanno restrizioni.
_____________
Any day your on this side of the grass is a good day.
Cattusbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 09:44 AM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,356
I think most of the younger generation has made the leap to having just a cell phone. They've decided that it is the home phone that is unneccessary.

I'm with them. I haven't had anything but a cell phone for about 6 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ikubak View Post
So can I assume from this that you don't actually have a cell phone? I don't have one either, and I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who doesn't have one other than myself. I love the looks I get when people ask me for my cell number and I tell them I don't have one. What? Isn't a home number and a work number enough? I don't understand how people like our student workers and entry level employees have cell phones at 50 to 100 per month and consider it a necessity rather than a convenience. I know there are people who "need" a cell phone. My wife has one for her work and it truly is a necessity, but at least Megacorp is paying for it. She says when she quits working, the cell phone is history.
__________________
Hamlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2010, 09:57 AM   #40
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,031
Our wedding, in 2001, ended up costing upward of $25,000. That was quite a lot of money for us. DW and I are simple people and we wanted a simple wedding but the in-laws pushed for a fancy wedding in a prime location. They are the one who pushed up the costs at all levels (wedding dress, food, location, flowers, photographers, guest lists, etc...). They invited many of their friends and business acquaintances whom we had never met and kinda turned the whole thing into a PR operation for their own benefit if you ask me. Of course, they gave us some money to help defray part of the costs of the added extravagance and bloated guest list, but DW and I still ended up paying more than we would have liked out of pocket.
__________________

__________________
FIREd is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much for daughter's wedding crispus Young Dreamers 189 05-20-2009 07:00 PM
Wedding gift Moemg Other topics 15 04-23-2009 04:21 PM
extra expenses? lowered expenses? 72t? retiringat50 FIRE and Money 6 01-08-2008 09:30 PM
Wedding Staples TromboneAl Other topics 12 08-01-2006 12:15 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:41 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.