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03-13-2019, 12:45 PM
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#81
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYEXPAT
I transferred my assets overseas before leaving NYS. I filed one last tax return with IRS and NYS for the six months I was still there. Never heard from NYS again. IRS asked me where my return was the following year, but I ignored the letter and have never heard from them again!
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Well, be that as it may you still owe tax. I suspect they will find you.
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03-13-2019, 12:51 PM
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#82
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truenorth418
I relocated to Florida from New York City last year. After almost 20 years in NYC, I sold my apartment and left for good.
Since I have been early retired for several years, most of my income now is dividends and interest, so I was no longer paying a ton of state and city income taxes as a resident of NYC. But, in my experience, the public services were declining significantly along with the quality of life. A homeless camp had been created around the corner from my apartment building, The subways, roads, and other services that I relied on had been declining for years.
And frankly there was a political element. I will avoid going into details about that, out of respect for the forum rules, but both the mayor of NYC and the governor have made it clear that they don’t value people like me. In fact, several years ago the governor of NY actually stated that people with political opinions like mine were not welcome in the state.
Why should I continue to give my money to people who hate me?
There is an expression I like: “Go where you’re treated best.”
So that’s what I did.
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I always find it interesting when a state decides it can solve a fiscal problem by "taxing the rich", as if this is a brilliant idea that will work. I mean, it might work once.
If you are walking home from work and get accosted by bandits for a shakedown, it is sensible to take a different way home next time.
Most "rich" people are sensible that way.
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03-13-2019, 12:55 PM
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#83
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montecfo
I always find it interesting when a state decides it can solve a fiscal problem by "taxing the rich", as if this is a brilliant idea that will work. I mean, it might work once.
If you are walking home from work and get accosted by bandits for a shakedown, it is sensible to take a different way home next time.
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Well, higher taxes are not necessarily a "shakedown", but when one perceives that what they are paying for is less and less than what they are getting, yes, it may be time to shop elsewhere. But if one finds that higher taxes are the price to pay for a locale which is more suited to their own ideals for what their society should be, then they may want to stick around.
The problem comes when there is a growing disconnect between taxes paid and the perceived value of what comes from those taxes.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-13-2019, 12:58 PM
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#84
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Miraflores,Peru
Posts: 1,992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montecfo
Well, be that as it may you still owe tax. I suspect they will find you.
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Well, if I do, I am sure they will send me a bill as they have my correct address!
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03-13-2019, 02:00 PM
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#85
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gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montecfo
I always find it interesting when a state decides it can solve a fiscal problem by "taxing the rich", as if this is a brilliant idea that will work. I mean, it might work once.
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One person's "taxing the rich" is another person's "paying their fair share".
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03-13-2019, 02:39 PM
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#86
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea
So a state is being aggressive about collecting taxes that are owed.
I'm okay with that.
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Yep. We moved from CA to TX last fall after selling our house. Large capital gains after the $500k exemption. We are filing what we hope is the last tax return for CA since we own no other property in CA. The capital gains from the house sale, and subsequent tax bill, are there. If we had moved within the state, we would have had the same tax considerations.
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03-13-2019, 02:43 PM
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#87
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upstate
Posts: 2,951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea
One person's "taxing the rich" is another person's "paying their fair share".
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Yes, as defined by "the people". I used to play a little game with my college classes. I would state in class that in order to make things more fair, we could institute a vote in class where the majority could decide that grade points be redistributed. I further explained that there were some members of the class that were far into the A category, and even more so since I gave bonus points there might even be people with > 100%. Wouldn't it be more fair, I suggested, that democracy rule where grade points could be taken from those who had too many to those who were struggling to pass? Nor should it matter that some of those who were struggling to pass didn't even bother coming to class or to do the assignments - but we should still have them participate in the vote.
Another variation of this is I sometimes ask if they would consider it better if I simply gave everyone an A in the class, regardless of how well they did or whether they even did the assignments.
To stretch the analogy even further, what do you think the students working hard to get good grades would do if points were taken away? Would they think that system is "fair"? What do you think they would do if they had the option to transfer to another class where their points are left to them (and not taken) or would they stay in my class where their points were given to other students?
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03-13-2019, 02:47 PM
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#88
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded
To stretch the analogy even further, what do you think the students working hard to get good grades would do if points were taken away? Would they think that system is "fair"? What do you think they would do if they had the option to transfer to another class where their points are left to them (and not taken) or would they stay in my class where their points were given to other students?
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The problem here (apart from the fact that we are starting to stray into the politics of taxation) is that these are not analogous situations.
In your example, the person giving up more of their "points" gets nothing of benefit in return (except, perhaps, if they feel good about preventing someone from flunking out). In the taxation example, people *might* get some benefit to giving up more of their income -- they may get better schools, parks, libraries, more filled potholes, more responsive public services (with less understaffing), and so on.
Of course each individual has to decide if higher taxes are worth it to them, considering what they are getting for it. That's what "moving with your feet" is about, and what the OP was referring to -- not the politics of tax rates.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-13-2019, 03:34 PM
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#89
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeea
One person's "taxing the rich" is another person's "paying their fair share".
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Sure. But continuing my analogy, it does not really matter what you call it.
After a shakedown, the wise take a different route home.
This is why these fiscal strategies do not raise the money expected. So says Gov. Cuomo.
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03-13-2019, 03:46 PM
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#90
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montecfo
This is why these fiscal strategies do not raise the money expected. So says Gov. Cuomo.
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Let's please keep clear of straying into politics and politicians. Thanks.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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03-13-2019, 05:30 PM
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#91
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gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copyright1997reloaded
I used to play a little game with my college classes.
Wouldn't it be more fair, I suggested, that democracy rule where grade points could be taken from those who had too many to those who were struggling to pass? Nor should it matter that some of those who were struggling to pass didn't even bother coming to class or to do the assignments - but we should still have them participate in the vote.
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How cute. That must have been a laugh riot.
Quote:
Another variation of this is I sometimes ask if they would consider it better if I simply gave everyone an A in the class, regardless of how well they did or whether they even did the assignments.
To stretch the analogy even further, what do you think the students working hard to get good grades would do if points were taken away? Would they think that system is "fair"? What do you think they would do if they had the option to transfer to another class where their points are left to them (and not taken) or would they stay in my class where their points were given to other students?
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Your class must have been a lot of fun. What was the subject? Did you have tenure? Was it a private or a public school?
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03-13-2019, 05:36 PM
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#92
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gone traveling
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montecfo
Sure. But continuing my analogy, it does not really matter what you call it.
After a shakedown, the wise take a different route home.
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Got it.
So progressive taxes are out. Because the wise take a different route home.
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03-13-2019, 06:16 PM
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#93
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,413
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My parents were raised in California but my father took a job in Westchester County NY around late 1952 or early 53. He lasted about two years before deciding to take the southerly route back to California in the winter. For years after that, or rather decades, my mother would shake her head at "those stupid New Yorkers." High taxes, crowded, dirty old cities, and nasty weather. Who would WANT to live THERE? No bad roads or potholes in California when I was a kid. Well funded public schools, shots for kids free at the County clinic (remember polio?), essentially free public higher education and low taxes.
You can have all these things in a place where things are new, there are relatively few people and pretty much everyone has the same belief about the social contract. Once a place becomes more crowded and the infrastructure ages, all these wonderful things disappear.
There simply is not enough tax revenue to be generated in the crowded states with old infrastructure, ossified governments and overreaching regulatory environments to provide more than minimum basic services. There is no choice but to tax anything and anyone to try to keep up.
Unfortunately, there are not many new, uncrowded places any longer. California has followed in New York's footsteps and from this coast it looks like Florida is headed in the same direction. Hence the desperate search for revenue from fleeing residents by the newer states as well as the old.
California is far less forgiving in defining what makes you a resident than New York and far more aggressive in auditing former residents. My guess is that a light bulb will go off over someone's head in Sacramento soon and California will implement an estate or inheritance tax, and they will try to make it applicable to people that leave and die elsewhere. They need the money.
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03-13-2019, 06:51 PM
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#94
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Reader
My guess is that a light bulb will go off over someone's head in Sacramento soon and California will implement an estate or inheritance tax, and they will try to make it applicable to people that leave and die elsewhere. They need the money.
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I think the logistics of trying to make that work would be nearly impossible. For instance, I can have an interest bearing account or CD at a bank located in California, and the interest earned is not taxed in California as long as I don't have any residency status or any other type of income in California. That's true for all states.
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03-13-2019, 07:21 PM
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#95
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Santa Paula
Posts: 4,076
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I was a Field Engineer in my early 20's working overseas. I qualified for "Physical Presence in a Foreign Country " and paid no taxes. It was great as I was single and had no deductions.
__________________
Retired Jan 2009 Have not looked back.
AA 60/35/5 considering SS and pensions a SP annuity
WR 2% with 2SS & 2 Pensions
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03-13-2019, 07:39 PM
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#96
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger
Yep. I have friends that moved from MD to FL to retire, and now like to poke fun about Maryland's high tax rates. But then when they complain about the state of their roads and infrastructure and public services, I be sure to take the opportunity to remind them that I *chose* to live in one of the counties in MD with the highest local tax rate. That is why I can fill out an online form about a pothole or even faded lane markings and it will be fixed a week or two later!
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Your friend must not use the same FL roads I do (snowbirding). Growing up in the North and Midwest, I accepted pot holes as the "rites of spring". But in a state without freezing temps and salted roads, things are quite different. Don't know that I have seen nicer roads, overall, than in FL.
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03-13-2019, 10:20 PM
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#97
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 11,298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethebroker
Your friend must not use the same FL roads I do (snowbirding). Growing up in the North and Midwest, I accepted pot holes as the "rites of spring". But in a state without freezing temps and salted roads, things are quite different. Don't know that I have seen nicer roads, overall, than in FL.
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Amen to that.
__________________
TGIM
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03-13-2019, 10:34 PM
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#98
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
Let's please keep clear of straying into politics and politicians. Thanks.
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Nothing partisan about the statement. It is completely on topic and factual. It is what the article said, it even quoted Cuomo to the same effect.
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03-14-2019, 03:23 AM
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#99
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
Let's please keep clear of straying into politics and politicians. Thanks.
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I suppose such a discussion could easily become political. It's not always so much the fact that one state has higher taxes than another and not that some states are more aggressive in collecting taxes due (or even not due.) To me, the issue is what the taxes are used for. That could get political very quickly. Therefore I'll leave it at that as YMMV.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -
Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
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03-14-2019, 05:26 AM
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#100
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethebroker
Your friend must not use the same FL roads I do (snowbirding). Growing up in the North and Midwest, I accepted pot holes as the "rites of spring". But in a state without freezing temps and salted roads, things are quite different. Don't know that I have seen nicer roads, overall, than in FL.
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Agree that the physical state of roads in FL is great, primarily due to the lack of freezing.
What I hear people complain about in FL in regard to roads is traffic flow, backups, and planning.
But I also hear people complain about that almost everywhere. Maybe not Wyoming.
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