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Article on NY audits of Florida tax refugees
Old 03-09-2019, 05:46 AM   #1
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Article on NY audits of Florida tax refugees

Tax collectors chase rich New Yorkers moving to low-tax states. Auditors inspect cell records, even your dog's vet bills

Robert Frank | @robtfrank
Published 12 Hours Ago Updated 8 Hours Ago
CNBC.com

New York conducted about 3,000 "non-residency" audits a year between 2010 and 2017, collecting around $1 billion, according to a data company.
New York is looking at cellphone records, social media feeds, and veterinary and dentist records in verifying residency.
Auditors are even conducting in-home inspections to look inside taxpayers' refrigerators.

[mod edit to ensure copyright compliance, full article here https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/08/tax-...ax-states.html ]
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:48 AM   #2
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So a state is being aggressive about collecting taxes that are owed.

I'm okay with that.
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:38 AM   #3
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My DH was reading about this to me on the phone.

Our governor was howling on the news about the loss of income tax revenue from the rich leaving NY. It is good reading for the new outflux of NY expats.

We are New Yorkers and part of our plan is to leave NY after retirement. It is my home, but the taxes and COL on LI are too high and DH is totally fed-up (although certainly our income tax will drop dramatically when we are no longer employed.)

I still have sons living on Long Island, but this type of article makes me nervous about keeping the family home for them to live in.
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:44 AM   #4
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Any legal method that a state uses to find these tax scofflaws is valid. There should also be a penalty on those who intended to defraud. However, there may be bit of privacy invasion at foot. The article doesn't say if NY state had received a warrant for their investigative actions.
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:54 AM   #5
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My friends friend who is wealthy and has a home in Florida and one in NY. He spends 6 months and a day in Florida and everyday he makes sure he makes a purchase on his CC. It could be gas, a pack of gum, dinner etc.


He is audited each year but has the records to prove he is a resident of Florida.
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:22 AM   #6
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Know the laws and follow the laws with a margin for error .

The deep state wakes up every morning very and increasingly hungry.
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:45 AM   #7
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Know the laws and follow the laws with a margin for error .

The deep state wakes up every morning very and increasingly hungry.

paranoid much?
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:53 AM   #8
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If you leave NY and go to a different state based on taxes, please remember that was your reason. It also means the state you move to may have a different level of services. Remember the taxes when calling for an increase in services.
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:11 AM   #9
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I was audited by NY State at least 6 times, both residency and non-residency, during the 90’s and early aughts, and I never had anything close to the income levels in this article. Four of those audits were handled by PWC when I was under a tax equalization plan. NY State collected in only one, it was less than $500, and it was from returns prepared by PWC.

It doesn’t look like anything has changed, and this is certainly nothing new. People in NY have been looking for ways to minimize / avoid / evade their taxes since 1788 and NY State has spent just as long tracking them down. It’s a full employment policy for tax attorneys and accountants.
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:31 AM   #10
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If you leave NY and go to a different state based on taxes, please remember that was your reason. It also means the state you move to may have a different level of services. Remember the taxes when calling for an increase in services.

I am very familiar with what I get/ do not get in the way of services. The pros that I see for my current location are that we would get a quick police and ambulance response. My nearest hospital is not the best; although for complicated procedures, we have access to NYC. I do not expect any of my healthcare to be funded vis-à-vis location in NY.

My concern about leaving NY /LI - is being homesick. My husband immigrated to the US as an adult, and has no such concern.
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:56 AM   #11
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paranoid much?
It’s not paranoia if the taxman really is out to get you.
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:02 AM   #12
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I was audited by New York when we were living in Hong Kong, but had kept our New York apartment (rented out). They actually sent an inspector to interview the building’s doormen about how often they’d seen us around! We were truly gone and the audit agreed (phew) but it was not a trivial process. My advice to anyone leaving “sticky” states (California is another one) is don’t even think about playing close to the rules - be clean by a good margin. And keep careful records backed up by things like credit card receipts about where you spend your time.
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:09 AM   #13
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paranoid much?
I think it's called prudence, not much different then making sure you don't go over the ACA income cliff. The punishment can be severe...
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:14 AM   #14
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If you leave NY and go to a different state based on taxes, please remember that was your reason. It also means the state you move to may have a different level of services. Remember the taxes when calling for an increase in services.
Yep. I have friends that moved from MD to FL to retire, and now like to poke fun about Maryland's high tax rates. But then when they complain about the state of their roads and infrastructure and public services, I be sure to take the opportunity to remind them that I *chose* to live in one of the counties in MD with the highest local tax rate. That is why I can fill out an online form about a pothole or even faded lane markings and it will be fixed a week or two later! Dealing with permitting and the courts here have been really easy for me, and the local schools are excellent. (I also can't stand the climate in Florida, but that's a completely different thread...)
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:31 AM   #15
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Yep. I have friends that moved from MD to FL to retire, and now like to poke fun about Maryland's high tax rates. But then when they complain about the state of their roads and infrastructure and public services, I be sure to take the opportunity to remind them that I *chose* to live in one of the counties in MD with the highest local tax rate. That is why I can fill out an online form about a pothole or even faded lane markings and it will be fixed a week or two later! Dealing with permitting and the courts here have been really easy for me, and the local schools are excellent. (I also can't stand the climate in Florida, but that's a completely different thread...)
MD has some beautiful areas.

Notwithstanding my high tax rate, my teeth were almost knocked out last week by driving through potholes. There is constant construction, but they never seem to catch up with the potholes. Our commutes and public transportation are nothing to brag about.

Local schools have high ratings, but very expensive taxwise, and I don't need them.

Local Courts, well, I am somewhat familiar with those considering what I do for a living. Too much to even go into.

I like my local neighborhood.

Florida weather. DH has put nix on Florida due to the weather.

It is a balancing act.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:16 AM   #16
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So a state is being aggressive about collecting taxes that are owed.

I'm okay with that.
Me too, as long as it doesn't become harassment or too much of an invasion of privacy.
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:53 PM   #17
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The part of this that bothers me is the "subjective" element. If the law says I need to live in FL for at least 183 days per year, and be able to prove it, fine -- i can do that. And if I cheat, then I deserve what I get. But if they say some New York bureaucrat in a brown polyester suit (or whatever) is going to make a "subjective judgment" about "where my heart is," I don't love that. Give me a rule or a set of rules and I can follow them....
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Old 03-09-2019, 03:17 PM   #18
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"We call it the golden ticket," Klein said. "The goal of a residency audit is to get the golden ticket of written confirmation from New York that you are no longer a resident. We have seen some auditors who say, 'Look, this is an ambiguous case, but if you come up with X dollars, then we can see the change of domicile.'"

Shakedown pure and simple.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:02 PM   #19
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Re: Buying something with your CC in Florida for 183 consecutive days?


I thought that you just couldn't set for in the "sticky" state for more than about 180 days. For someone who travels, that makes a difference.


If you spent 5 months in NY, 4 months in FL and 3 months in Europe and you had all the requisite stuff moved to Florida beforehand, you'd be ok, yes?
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:10 PM   #20
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Move to Minnesota. Your former state of residence will NEVER question your tax liabilities...MN would send them a bill.
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