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Old 11-30-2019, 11:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by GravitySucks View Post
We met in our lair deep in the mountain under Davos to discuss this article and have declared:
Fat FIRE is spending over 110% of last worked years income net of taxes and savings.
Lean FIRE is spending under 80% of last worked year income net of taxes and savings.
We also reaffirmed that:
It only early retirement if you start at 55 years old or younger.
It's not retirement if you trade any time for money. Side gigs and hobby business included.
Every American should take SS at 70.

PS
This is not an elected position. We seized these positions through cunning, subterfuge, and brute strength.
We will not give it up easily.

only 110%.... that's just "FIRE" (re: the above lettuce comment)

The I.R.P. define it as, at least 2 1/2 X of income with all needs and most all "wants" True FatFIRE participants can, for example, walk right into dealership and pay cash for whatever vehicle they want....

We're FI, already retired (but only at 59 at the time so not really "early") with pension and under 2% wr and able to pull the cord on SS anytime we want (already past early claiming) with no debt (house/vehicles/ etc paid off ).....and we don't consider ourselves in "FAT" retirement, just "comfortable"
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Old 11-30-2019, 11:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
The human species loves to categorize and compare.
That might not be one of our better traits.
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Old 11-30-2019, 11:26 AM   #23
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I wonder how the Board of Official Retirement Definitions will come down on this?

To my mind, the terms Fat FIRE and Lean FIRE have nothing to do with how much you spend relative to other people. Nor do they have anything to do with the absolute level of your spending . Rather, they refer to your safety margin. If you can easily meet your spending needs and don't have to worry about an unexpected expense or a market downturn, you are Fat FIREd.
My sentiment exactly!
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Old 11-30-2019, 11:38 AM   #24
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Labels to us are meaningless.

I think the goal should be to have a retirement that you are happy with. Does not matter if others consider it lean or fat. That is of no consequence.

I do not understand the point of the article other than to fill up copy space. Seems to me that it is self evident and not deserving of several columns of print. Pure filler.
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Old 11-30-2019, 12:52 PM   #25
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Sigh. Just today my DW said I was having a FATFire...and she wasnít referring to spending at all.
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Old 11-30-2019, 01:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by FI_RElater View Post
only 110%.... that's just "FIRE" (re: the above lettuce comment)

The I.R.P. define it as, at least 2 1/2 X of income with all needs and most all "wants" True FatFIRE participants can, for example, walk right into dealership and pay cash for whatever vehicle they want....
IIRC there's a book many on this board swear by that defined thresholds on a related parameter at half the average and twice the average. Not quite the same, though, because that was (appropriately IMO) normalized by age and income, which I imagine greatly reduces the spread.

This brings up another distinction -- between fastfire and slowfire. Many here chose to exit fast and lean instead of occupying their desks for another decade to go out slow and fat. So perhaps a better comparison metric could be annual spending capacity multiplied by expected duration?
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Old 11-30-2019, 03:13 PM   #27
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Many here chose to exit fast and lean instead of occupying their desks for another decade to go out slow and fat.
+1
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Old 11-30-2019, 04:32 PM   #28
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IIRC there's a book many on this board swear by that defined thresholds on a related parameter at half the average and twice the average. Not quite the same, though, because that was (appropriately IMO) normalized by age and income, which I imagine greatly reduces the spread.

This brings up another distinction -- between fastfire and slowfire. Many here chose to exit fast and lean instead of occupying their desks for another decade to go out slow and fat. So perhaps a better comparison metric could be annual spending capacity multiplied by expected duration?

as I said, I wasn't out "early" as some have been (although I did have an option about two years earlier... but hadn't run all the numbers) - wanted to never have to head out to get a paycheck again

I based my likelihood of spend duration as avg expected mortality plus two sd (with one sd being about seven years).... while my likely true expected duration is really only about until 85, but needed to add for spousal and thus the extra years.

The other thing I'd point out, and which has been noted by others in different threads, is that the earlier that one punches out, and hence the longer the expected duration of need, the higher probability of not just one but even two adverse corrections happening. Think of the 1998 retiree: they had two corrections in only ten years .... and we can't expect recoveries to be as fast in the future.
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Old 11-30-2019, 05:13 PM   #29
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Also, lots of people are stuck living in the past or living for (or in fear of) the future, instead of living in the now. I know from experience I could deal with fatFIRE or leanFIRE, and find a way to be happy with either one, so I do what I can and I don't worry about it past that.

(Yes, I plan for the future, but this is why I like the "set it and forget it" plans, like the two-fund portfolio. It helps me minimize the amount of time I plan for or worry about my future.)
Always have to have a Plan B and then things tend to work out from there.
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Old 12-01-2019, 04:34 PM   #30
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Perry, Mr. MM tends to be very high earners that save a lot of money. Yes some are retiring on too little.
IMHO a lot will end up like the "Your Money or Your Life" guy...sharing housing, etc.

DW's grandmother ended up living in her youngest daughter's finished basement for the last several years of her life once her husband died (grandparents had divided their dairy farm among the children decades prior)...worked out just fine.
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