Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet

Gee..... From the tone of many comments here, I was led to believe that the UK system (and several other national health systems) were free. Thanks for clearing that up.
I'd never claim that healthcare is free and if I neglected to say things like "free at point of service" or "no out of pocket costs or premiums" I'm sorry. UK healthcare will cost the average person half that of the average US person and there's never a worry about being covered. The thing that saddens me is that many Americans with health insurance aren't more outraged that they pay twice as much as people in other countries for poorer coverage.
__________________

__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-08-2012, 12:04 PM   #42
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_at_49
OK so next year “Health Insurance Exchanges” will go into effect. I keep googling but I can’t get any details. Will I be able to buy a plan that covers ALL my healthcare without additional expenses?
Yes you will, but the premiums will be very high. You would be looking at a "Gold" plan with no deductible or out of pocket expenses.
__________________

__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:21 PM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Well, at half the cost of the US health care with better coverage, "almost free" "almost" describes it.
I think you're missing my point in your rush to make yours.

I'm saying that folks from systems like they have in the UK or Canada often refer to it as "free" and do a great bit of associated boasting. In fact there are costs (perhaps a cost structure superior to that in the USA, but still costs) involved. It's just "free" to the end user.

For example, I'm sure that here in the USA if we taxed the Billionaires to pay for "free" health care for eveyone, it would be referred to as free health care by the masses of folks not being taxed to pay for it. The Billionaires might feel differently.........

The concept of no cost to society and free to the end user seem to be used interchangeably. Perhaps that's not appropriate?

BTW, I'm eager for USA health care costs to be reduced to typical world levels. No argument there.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:25 PM   #44
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
I think you're missing my point in your rush to make yours.

I'm saying that folks from systems like they have in the UK or Canada often refer to it as "free" and do a great bit of associated boasting. In fact there are costs (perhaps a cost structure superior to that in the USA, but still costs) involved, it's just "free" to the end user.

For example, I'm sure that here in the USA if we taxed the Billionaires to pay for "free" health care for eveyone, it would be referred to as free health care by the masses. The Billionaires might feel differently.........

The concept of no cost to society and free to the end user seem to be used interchangeably.

BTW, I'm eager for USA health care costs to be reduced to typlical world levels. No argument there.
I got your point. My Canadian in-laws view their health care costs not as free but paid through taxes. No illusions about who is paying. Same with my English friends. In fact, the only place where I have heard this reference is here in the US.
__________________
MichaelB is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:25 PM   #45
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Gee..... From the tone of many comments here, I was led to believe that the UK system (and several other national health systems) were free. Thanks for clearing that up.
Just in case you really don't know how it works in the UK, then, just like the USA, separate taxes are deducted from every paycheck to fund healthcare.

In the USA those Medicare taxes only subsidize part of your health care costs once you get to age 65, and most folks also buy supplemental (Medigap) insurance when they get Medicare.

In the UK those healthcare taxes provide healthcare all your life, not just when you are 65. Many people also buy supplemental private insurance, or it is provided in employee benefits. Just as in most every other industrialized country the private health insurance companies in the UK have to be non-profit organizations, but you still see them advertising for business similar to the article the OP posted.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:37 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun

I'd. Ever claim that healthcare is free and if I neglected to say things like "free at point of service" or "no out of pocket costs or premiums" I'm sorry. UK healthcare will cost the average person half that of the average US person and there's never a worry about being covered. The thing that saddens me is that many Americans with health insurance aren't more outraged that they pay twice as much as people in other countries for poorer coverage.
Probably the reason why Americans aren't universally outraged is from the fact we are divided into many subgroup that are affected in different ways. Some like my GF, have gold plated plans ($150 yearly deductible, what a sweet deal) that are paid completely by the company. There isn't much outrage coming from that workplace I promise you. Some like me, have dirt cheap high deductible plans, and have avoided getting sick or hurt, so the sticker shock hasn't hit home. Medicaid helps another segment. While others have got hit disproportionally or even uninsurable, are obviously the ones who would want change, and I certainly don't blame them.
__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:37 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
I got your point. My Canadian in-laws view their health care costs not as free but paid through taxes. No illusions about who is paying. Same with my English friends. In fact, the only place where I have heard this reference is here in the US.
Good anecdotal inputs. I'm sure there are millions of stories.......

I have some that are different. Folks we sit with in the dining hall at fishing camp "Up Nort" every summer are from Canada and Australia and go on and on about their health care system being "free," that they don't have any claim forms or paperwork to do since there are no charges, etc. They pooh pooh any mention that somehow, somewhere, someone is paying for it.

Again, I'm all for the USA sharply reducing our health care costs per capita. In fact, I'm much more interested in that than in making our health care system "free" to more and more participants. It seems that our focus today is on providing "free" or subsidized care and not on cost control. Perhaps this is the only way to get started, but I'll be glad when we move on to finding ways to drop our per capita cost by half or more, hopefully much more.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:38 PM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
I think you're missing my point in your rush to make yours.

I'm saying that folks from systems like they have in the UK or Canada often refer to it as "free" and do a great bit of associated boasting. In fact there are costs (perhaps a cost structure superior to that in the USA, but still costs) involved. It's just "free" to the end user.


BTW, I'm eager for USA health care costs to be reduced to typlical world levels. No argument there.
People from other countries understand that they pay for healthcare through taxation or premiums they pay to private insurers. They tend to "boast" about it only when they hear of the costs, restrictive coverage and possibility of actually not being covered in the USA. They might not consider it boasting, just pointing out the superiority of their system......the people on Medicare or with another US insurance scheme might well interpret it as boasting.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:45 PM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Probably the reason why Americans aren't universally outraged is from the fact we are divided into many subgroup that are affected in different ways.
+1, the complexity and fragmentation of the US system makes it difficult to understand exactly what you are getting. Also some people get excellent care at a reasonable cost to them because of big subsidies. I'm one of those because I'm on a state health plan, $100/month premium, $30 co-pays and no deductibles. The total insurance cost will still be far higher than in other countries, but most people who get the same care are not motivated to complain because they don't experience the costs.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:47 PM   #50
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post

Again, I'm all for the USA sharply reducing our health care costs per capita. In fact, I'm much more interested in that than in making our health care system "free" to more and more participants. It seems that our focus today is on providing "free" or subsidized care and not on cost control. Perhaps this is the only way to get started, but I'll be glad when we move on to finding ways to drop our per capita cost by half or more, hopefully much more.
Take a look at what's happening in MA. From the state that brought you Romneycare now comes "cost control"

Governor Deval Patrick signs health cost-control bill - Boston.com
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:48 PM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
People from other countries understand that they pay for healthcare through taxation or premiums they pay to private insurers.
I suspect quite a few do and that some don't. I'm aware of folks that don't. In fact, some have posted right here on the FIRE forum.

What healthcare do you have? And don't you have other options from other countries?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:51 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
Take a look at what's happening in MA. From the state that brought you Romneycare now comes "cost control"

Governor Deval Patrick signs health cost-control bill - Boston.com
Yep, it's a start. And there are lots and lots of opportunities ahead of us. I'd like to see docs and hospitals operate at less than half of what they currently spend per case. And I'd like to see drug prices become gov't controlled so that the potential profits from devleoping so-called "miracle drugs" are eliminated. Efforts need to be directed at reducing manufacturing costs of currently existing drugs, not in developing new drugs. The price charged for drugs being exported needs to be the same or higher than drugs sold domestically. Etc., etc.

Lots of things that can be done. Healthcare technology is an area where the USA can no longer afford to participate in the development of cutting edge technology if the costs have to be recovered domestically on the backs of everyday Americans.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 01:16 PM   #53
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
Yes you will, but the premiums will be very high. You would be looking at a "Gold" plan with no deductible or out of pocket expenses.
Thank you. I can get a “gold” plan now, the question is will healthcare be more affordable as of Jan 1 2014? I’m just sick of buying expensive insurance and still paying thousands out-of-pocket. Buying individual insurance is the worst, BCBS has been scamming me for years. Ironically, if I got sick I would go back home to Canada, so I wouldn’t even use my “gold” plan.
__________________
Free_at_49 is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #54
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 130
What are the stars below my user name? and wHy do i only have 4, I bet I'm taller than any of you
__________________
Free_at_49 is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 8,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_at_49 View Post
What are the stars below my user name? and wHy do i only have 4, I bet I'm taller than any of you
The stars indicate the number of times others have benefited from advice you gave in your posts, minus the number of times others have been annoyed by something you said. As long as the net star quantity remains positive, you will continue to have posting privileges here. If it ever dips into negative territory, you will be banned from the community.
Hope that helps.
__________________
Pas de lieu Rhône que nous.
braumeister is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 01:39 PM   #56
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post

The stars indicate the number of times others have benefited from advice you gave in your posts, minus the number of times others have been annoyed by something you said. As long as the net star quantity remains positive, you will continue to have posting privileges here. If it ever dips into negative territory, you will be banned from the community.
Hope that helps.
And don't forget eye color and length of the second toe are also factored in.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 01:55 PM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
I suspect quite a few do and that some don't. I'm aware of folks that don't. In fact, some have posted right here on the FIRE forum.

What healthcare do you have? And don't you have other options from other countries?
I have a great plan. It's highly subsidized by my employer (the state of MA), no deductibles and my cost is $100/month. If I retire back to the UK I will have immediate access to full NHS coverage. I get that because I'll be resident in the UK, there is no requirement to pay anything. I will pay through the taxes I pay to the UK, but my overall tax bill will be less in the UK than in the US.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
I have a great plan. It's highly subsidized by my employer (the state of MA), no deductibles and my cost is $100/month. If I retire back to the UK I will have immediate access to full NHS coverage. I get that because I'll be resident in the UK, there is no requirement to pay anything. I will pay through the taxes I pay to the UK, but my overall tax bill will be less in the UK than in the US.
Congrats on having "beat the system!"

Hopefully our reforms will level the playing field so everyone has access to the same healthcare with no exceptions. No denials based on health or finances. No access to "extras" based on ability to pay. Folks such as yourself might give up a few small features while folks with no coverage will certainly gain. But, in the end, best for all.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Just in case you really don't know how it works in the UK, then, just like the USA, separate taxes are deducted from every paycheck to fund healthcare.

In the USA those Medicare taxes only subsidize part of your health care costs once you get to age 65, and most folks also buy supplemental (Medigap) insurance when they get Medicare.

In the UK those healthcare taxes provide healthcare all your life, not just when you are 65. Many people also buy supplemental private insurance, or it is provided in employee benefits. Just as in most every other industrialized country the private health insurance companies in the UK have to be non-profit organizations, but you still see them advertising for business similar to the article the OP posted.
Thanks Alan, although I was generally aware of how the system works in the UK.

One disagreement I have with the UK system is that folks can purchase, either through insurance or direct pay, private health care. It seems like if some rich folks can afford to buy private supplemental insurance or private pay for extra services, they could be taxed to obtain more revenue in order to provide enhanced services for all.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 12-08-2012, 02:24 PM   #60
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free_at_49 View Post
What are the stars below my user name? and wHy do i only have 4, I bet I'm taller than any of you
It reflects the number of posts you have submitted. You'll get more stars after a while, and then you won't care either.
__________________

__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:46 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.