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Old 09-12-2014, 04:49 PM   #261
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Just making sure we are not singling out particular group traits (sex, religion, political affiliation, etc.). Seems you are not. Thanks.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:18 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
I have a sister in law who is trust fund baby . She is hard working ambitious and an all around nice person who is also frugal .If you met her you would never guess how wealthy she is .Her children are also hard workers and down to earth people .
Similar experience here. One of my best friends inherited his dad's share of a partnership and was promptly bought out for several million by the other partners. He and his DW do some things now they couldn't afford before (mainly travel and entertainment), but otherwise they're still the same loyal friends as ever.

DW and I have a negative inheritance. My folks neither left us anything nor cost us anything of consequence. DW's dad has passed but her mom is alive in a nursing home and we gladly cough up money so her life is as pleasant as possible. Net, the older generation has cost us money, not left us money.

But our friendship with our monetarily fortunate friends remains strong. Their overnight leap to wealth changed little to make them less attractive to us.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:07 PM   #263
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The thing that rubs me the wrong way about distain for "trust fund babies" who "haven't EARNED" their financial independence is that it stereotypes and dehumanizes. Doubtless some wealthy people are idle, superficial and so on, but surely that doesn't apply to all. How is this different from the other side of the coin, i.e. suggesting that poor people are invariably ignorant, lazy, unsophisticated, and generally not worth spending time with?

Luck plays a very large role in all of our individual destinies: even the hardest working 'self-made man' is exceptionally fortunate to be born with natural intelligence, in this era of relative peace and prosperity. Smugness is to be discouraged.

Anyway, enough of the thread highjack. Ha is absolutely correct that "there is no such thing as awkward wealth; only awkward people". I invite you to watch the old Harry Enfield "Considerably Richer Than You" clips on YouTube, and you will see one such person receive well-deserved comeuppances!
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:33 PM   #264
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So in sum, when I meet up with folks who don’t seem to be doing as well as I, and all we have in common is our dogs sharing a ball, I play it down, sometimes don’t mention my exotic profession or even the subdivision we’re in b/c I know it will trigger envy. And when the DW wants to get together socially with people who I know are trust fund babies or lucked into a big inheritance I decline. Not that they’re bad people or I’m envious but that our concerns/perspectives in life are so very different. Your relationship to money, your nest egg is a different mindset, no sweat equity is represented just custodial. You can call it envy but I have a basic lack of respect, no matter how well I like them on their other traits.
I think you are selling a whole class of people short because of personal insecurities. Sorry, that's what it sounds like based on your post.

I know lots of trust fund babies. I would say they breakout as appealing/unappealing as any other class of people. There are many who are shallow and uninteresting. But I also know a good many shallow tradesmen--just shallow in different ways.

I would try not to get too caught up in how people got their wealth and focus on who the people are. I beat you'll be pleasantly surprised. At the end of the day we are all people who want love, friendship, respect, affinity, etc.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:44 PM   #265
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And that right there is the crux of the OP, as I see it. You are judging people by their money and avoiding people with more of it. This is exactly why FI people try to avoid conversations about money, and if you slip and say something that connotes wealth, it becomes awkward around people with less who have a bias about people with money.
+1 great observation!
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:54 PM   #266
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DW and I went to an Ivy League university and met a lot of what folks here are calling "trust fund babies". Some were certainly obnoxious but most were hard working during college. We have remained friends with some of them and they are hard working and not taking their "trust fund" from granted; indeed several have confided that they will actually see little if any of their parents wealth because the parents think it is a bad idea to leave so much to them.

As a minority I don't like folks painting broad brushes about be based on being a minority, and I try not do do the same with other "groups".
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Old 09-13-2014, 06:01 AM   #267
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Not sure where that came from. I didn't read of any ill treatment or lack of consideration in his posts. Indeed, he stated that those lucky/unlucky enough - in either case, a matter of chance - to inherit wealth were "not .. bad people" or in some cases "the nicest people". The only complaints expressed were that they "no longer have the kinds of concerns mere mortals do" and that some (have the audacity to) drive new Land Rovers, employ household staff, or own multiple homes: not offensive actions per se, surely?

I don't know all of the facts, and can only go on what's been posted above. Cheesehead speaks of feeling "a basic lack of respect, no matter how well I like them on their other traits": i.e., no matter how the "trust fund babies" actually conduct themselves. Such disrespect may say much about him, but certainly tells us nothing about the recipients of his contempt.

That's true. I drew a conclusion about the reason for his contempt that was not based upon any facts presented in his posts. That conclusion may or may not be correct, but I should not have made that assumption.
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Old 09-13-2014, 06:28 AM   #268
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My experiences with people who have earned their FI have been almost all positive. The only exception are a couple of close friends who have been filthy rich for a decade or more. They have lost contact with reality as experienced the other 99% including friends that are FI but at a more modest level.

A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

And I though my $60 bottle if champagne was extravagant! Sheesh. The difficult thing these few weeks was the looks if shock on people's faces. And everyone asking what I'm going to do with my time. There is such a mix of envy and resentment over early retirement.


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Old 09-13-2014, 06:42 AM   #269
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Sorry, hit the send button too soon.

About inheritances. I had no clue about my dad's finances until 2 years before dad died and I had to invoke POA to take care of his affairs.

I continued to work as if I had no money. I bought a Prius when my car died a painful death. We calculated we would save $7k in gas over the life of the car. Eating out has mostly been Subway. Our extravagances have been travel, not cars, clothes, daily food.

Money changes you if you let it. It has reduced my stress, but otherwise no change in behavior or thinking.


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Old 09-13-2014, 09:17 AM   #270
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This thread makes me thankful that I was born into a family of poor immigrants, started saving as soon as I started working at 16, still "feel poor" in many ways (which has kept me in an ongoing state of frugality and LBYM), and don't know any rich people (except perhaps for a few incognitio "millionaires next door").

I will ER at age 52, voluntarily, from money I have earned through hard work and saved. It won't be an extravagant lifestyle, but I'll have everything I need and that's enough for me.
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:29 AM   #271
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This thread makes me thankful that I was born into a family of poor immigrants, started saving as soon as I started working at 16, still "feel poor" in many ways (which has kept me in an ongoing state of frugality and LBYM), and don't know any rich people (except perhaps for a few incognitio "millionaires next door").

I will ER at age 52, voluntarily, from money I have earned through hard work and saved. It won't be an extravagant lifestyle, but I'll have everything I need and that's enough for me.
+1
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:08 AM   #272
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Hmm. Post or not? I'd like to posit that money does NOT necessarily change you. We always LBYM and could have retired when we did, at 60, with our "own" money and pension, and used a WR of ~4%. As luck would have it, came into inheritances from both sides that together would make a good retirement in and of itself for many. When those appeared, it changed NOTHING in our approach or savings rates. Or spend rates. As it is now, we live like we always did, but the WR is well below 3%. As mentioned in previous posts, we have trouble finding things to spend it on that's meaningful to us. Because we did not change. DS and DD doing great; could tell them to cool it on their retirement savings because they'll get a bundle some day. All it's done for us is make the comfort zone with a very wide margin.

I just don't buy that inherited money "changes" you. Even if what we inherited was a multiple of what it was I think we'd still behave as we do. I don't really know any "trust fund" babies but admit that if you grew up around copious piles of cash with the mindset to "enjoy" it all, it would create personalities I'd likely not want to be around. But I've never really been around anyone like that on a personal basis.

I think some folks here are making some false assumptions about people they do not know.
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Old 09-13-2014, 11:23 AM   #273
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I invite you to watch the old Harry Enfield "Considerably Richer Than You" clips on YouTube, and you will see one such person receive well-deserved comeuppances!
ROFL - I'd never heard of those, and just watched it.
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Old 09-13-2014, 12:04 PM   #274
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Just caught up more reading the posts from the past couple days, and I find the discussion about money changing people, and whom they might socialize with, very interesting.

I can't deny that I feel a life-changing amount of money would change me. I do tend to hang around with people with similar socio-economic conditions as my own. I don't hang out with the custodians and janitors at work, nor do I hang out with the mega-multi-millionaire founders of the company.

Due to being blessed, good fortune, luck, or whatever else you want to call it, my stock in the company I work for stands a good chance of giving me a life-changing amount of financial resources, and the ability to (hopefully) FIRE early next year if all continues to go well.

If that happens, there are things in life I want to pursue that will probably be out of reach for the majority of people I hang out with right now. I want to get my pilots license and get my own plane. I want to see about maybe building a new home in the mountains of Colorado near ski country. I want to start doing some more traveling.

If I pursue these things, it's going to put me in different socio-economic circles than I've been in before, and I'll probably start socializing with people in those circles more, and spending less time with my current crop of friends, both because of physical location (if I move) and because I fully expect the new activities I want to start pursuing will have little or no interest to my current friends, or be out of reach. I'm not saying that to be snarky, it's just the way it is based on my understanding of their financial situation, which is very similar to my own right now.

Such changes in the circle of friends has happened in every other phase of my life, as I worked myself up (and down), and my circle of people I hang out with has changed accordingly. I am a believer in the "birds of a feather flock together" concept another poster mentioned. It doesn't mean anybody above or below me on the socio-economic ladder is any better or worse than me, just that I hang out with similar people on the same rung of the ladder as me, and as I change where I'm at on the ladder, my circle of friends has changed, too.

I'm pretty certain that if I ever came into mega-multi-millions myself (highly unlikely), I'd probably be one of those people on the private jet talking about things that "mere mortals" (myself today, LOL) do not, like trading in the jet for a new Citation X+ so I could get to my vacation home in the south of France faster

C'est la vie
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Old 09-13-2014, 12:39 PM   #275
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While money would most certainly change me, i consider thoughts of the poorest people i know to be most useful to me as i make choices in my life. Not only the good people with morals, bit also destitute people without.


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Old 09-13-2014, 01:22 PM   #276
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For the core group of this forum LBYM has become as natural as breathing. Along with this lifestyle comes a lot of thought, introspection and discipline not just about money but about what really is important to them. So it is not surprising that many would not change up their lives all that much if they had a sudden financial windfall.

The individuals that burn through major lottery winnings or huge unexpected inheritances often don't stand a chance of long term success because they have not had the benefit of the decades long process most on this forum have.

As for people who come from old money, have guaranteed trusts etc. and still develop the good work values and adopt many of the principles of LBYM I have nothing but admiration.
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Old 09-13-2014, 01:26 PM   #277
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It felt awkward. And I felt a little guilty. I know I shouldn't feel guilty though.

Anyone else have those awkward wealth moments?
Were you getting social cues for these feelings from the people you were with, or was the feeling self-imposed? Because you could always refer back to the fact that you gave up a lot of luxuries and worked your freakin' assets off to be ER'd today.

Perhaps the cure for these feelings is to:
1. Hang out with people who don't give a crap how much you have, or
2. Hang out with people who are richer than you (a subset of #1).

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My awkward moment happened very shortly after retiring. I was at a big family gathering and out of the blue, one of my relatives looked at me and said, "I can't believe that YOU 'get' to retire early and don't have to work anymore!" The tone was not congratulatory, and was filled with resentment.
I have relatives like that. I'm trying to replace them, or at least get rid of them...
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Old 09-13-2014, 02:37 PM   #278
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Well, that's what I get for posting before drinking my morning coffee! Get misconstrued.

I do have friends and peeps in our social circle(s) much different than us but not in much higher financial sphere. Money does change people. From the colleges their kids are considering, vacationing as couples, etc.,etc.

And Fuego, in the back of your mind you know you'll be coming into money, and I have seen a lot of people in that situation. Or those that married into it. Knowing that you will not need to worry about money in retirement you'll have a LOT less stress in your later years concerning retirement, a LOT less stress. And that makes you different whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not.

But you should have a Plan B in case the money doesn't materialize, which I have also seen. At the opening of the will friends who thought they would be on Easy Street learned it was left to the church, the university, etc.

Lastly, I am one of the few who try to minimize their amount of screen time to experience life, which is everything away from a computer screen.
Cheesehead, I do have to agree and take the unpopular opinion here that money does change people. You may call it reducing stress or whatever but this and any other lifechanging event will change your perspective to some degree.
My car breaking down today has no comparison to when I had to change a timing chain in my driveway on a Sunday so I could make a road trip on Monday. My coworker who had a FIL worth in excess of 10m did not feel nearly the stress I did when we both had to reapply for our jobs in 2009.
His it's no big deal approach to the situation had me baffled until I learned of his circumstances. It's the struggles which contribute to common ground.
To quote Joe Walsh - "Everybodies so different I haven't changed"
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Old 09-13-2014, 02:59 PM   #279
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There is a difference between changing/upgrading one's lifestyle upon receiving a sudden windfall and changing one's core values and outlook on life. I think that if one's core values "change" for the worse because of new wealth, then those values were not real to begin with or at least not firmly in place--they were not the person you thought they were.

Having a chum who you can preach to the choir with, etc. is great. Does it matter that they have a fancy-er car than before? If it does than either the friend or the person himself are not being their genuine self.

I've felt a bit of this. I sold a business and made a nice windfall. We bought a vacation home on the beach. I RE'ed. We took a 1 year sailing trip with our school-aged kids. But I still drive the same (now) 9 year old car. Kids still go to the same public schools, etc. We're the same people as before but with more free time and a nice vacation rental (that we rarely mention). Some friends and family must have become uncomfortable because they have distanced themselves. Others are fine with it. I say that is their internal issue to deal with, their insecurities showing.
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Old 09-13-2014, 03:33 PM   #280
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If you want a nice sampling of "rich dicks" from all over the world just go snowboarding or skiing at Vail/Beaver Creek or Aspen or Park city or whistler and stay at the 5 star lodge.

I am kind of kidding but seriously there are some wealthy egotistical jerks in this money circle that expect their
ski boots to be kissed 24/7.

Money does change people. Lottery winners find this out the hard way.

I do think that many people just don't care that much about money and just are not impressed by it. I fall into this camp. I like the freedom of money but just accumulating toys and crap I don't need is overrated.
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