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Old 09-07-2014, 02:05 PM   #121
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One thing I can say for sure is that many people on this board are not aware of how much envy and jealousy exists out there. Small town, big town, big city- envy is probably more frequent than not. Pols are not idiots, and they flog it all day long if it runs in their constituents.

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Old 09-07-2014, 02:09 PM   #122
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That makes total sense. I also live in a very mixed economic area and I myself make pretty good income that allows me to super save for retirement.

Its funny for me because I get excited for people who win with money and they just motivate me(Why I love this website!).
So I love to hear from family and friends and coworkers about their success and failure with money so I can learn from them.

In my neighborhood most people keep to themselves.
I like this site too. You can be a (relatively) low spending millionaire and no one really cares. I don't know where else other than here or MMM forums or my own or others' blogs I would discuss financial topics unique to early retirees. It's like we're living in another dimension.

I actually like hearing about people doing awesome things in their ER. Like the travel posts/threads. Some folks here spend months on the road traveling each year. To me, that's not bragging, it's something to be proud of. A lifetime of effort and work that culminated in the ability to do whatever you want for the rest of your life.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:16 PM   #123
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Anyone else have those awkward wealth moments?
All the time - not sure why. I remind myself often that we didn't steal it, we saved it by working for years and socking it away.

We had some friends over Friday night for dinner, and were discussing best places to eat breakfast out. We mentioned a nearby brunch in an upscale area, and when they asked how much it was, I replied with $20 per person, but worth every single penny. The look on their faces made me feel like a schmuck. I might as well have said $200 each. I then started backtracking by explaining that we only do it once a year or so, for very special occasions (not exactly true...). They are teachers with several kids, and are admittedly not great money managers. Why I feel bad for them is beyond me, but I do and really watch my words when discussing travels, home improvements, etc. One of my many foibles, I guess. I'm blessed, and feel for others not as lucky as we've been.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:27 PM   #124
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I don't have any of those moments. I try keep my NW to myself and my lifestyle is standard middle class thing.

I am concerned about US love with lawsuits and this may be one of the reasons why I stay off of any radar
+1 and I'm sure as heck never going to be caught buying caviar, unless it's the fish bait kind
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:31 PM   #125
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I pick up on certain words or phrases that people use that, to me, flag them as a "snob".
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:33 PM   #126
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[quote]We mentioned a nearby brunch in an upscale area, and when they asked how much it was, I replied with $20 per person, but worth every single penny .. [/guote]

$20 is not that pricy at all for brunch.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:35 PM   #127
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I pick up on certain words or phrases that people use that, to me, flag them as a "snob".
Such as "Grey Poupon"?
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:40 PM   #128
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One thing I can say for sure is that many people on this board are not aware of how much envy and jealousy exists out there. Small town, big town, big city- envy is probably more frequent than not. Pols are not idiots, and they flog it all day long if it runs in their constituents.

Ha
It kind of seems like since 2008 America has become tired and complacent?

The whole "keeping up with the Jones" thing has kind of lost its luster?

I think the Millennial generation is starting to adapt to the new America of not buying a house and just living paycheck to paycheck from job to job.
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:41 PM   #129
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Such as "Grey Poupon"?



I can't quote this exactly, but a friend was a waiter in Cambridge, Mass, and some Midwest guy came in and ordered a burger. When asked, "would you like mustard?", he replied "yes! And don't bring me any of that Poo-Poo $hit! French's!"
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:49 PM   #130
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But fish eggs is fish eggs, and pregnant fish aren't too hard to find at spawning time.
Not all fish eggs are caviar....

Caviar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:50 PM   #131
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I rarely find discussions on this forum snobby or arrogant, however I can see pupleskys point. This forum attracts a lot of wealthy posters and thoughtful young LBYM dreamers that are likely to be able to ER in a decade or two. It only makes sense that many of the topics discussed are in fact issues of the wealthy. To the majority of our every day peers and family that are not FIRE oriented or ever will have the opportunity to FIRE short of winning a lottery our observations might sound like insensitive bragging.

That being said it is wonderful to have this forum as a resource to discuss issues like this thread does. Where else can you even begin to find a similar peer group to ask questions, express opinions and most importantly learn. Only been a member a few months and this is now by far the most helpful forum I have ever been a member of.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:04 PM   #132
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All the time - not sure why. I remind myself often that we didn't steal it, we saved it by working for years and socking it away.

We had some friends over Friday night for dinner, and were discussing best places to eat breakfast out. We mentioned a nearby brunch in an upscale area, and when they asked how much it was, I replied with $20 per person, but worth every single penny. The look on their faces made me feel like a schmuck. I might as well have said $200 each. I then started backtracking by explaining that we only do it once a year or so, for very special occasions (not exactly true...). They are teachers with several kids, and are admittedly not great money managers. Why I feel bad for them is beyond me, but I do and really watch my words when discussing travels, home improvements, etc. One of my many foibles, I guess. I'm blessed, and feel for others not as lucky as we've been.
It is not a foible it is called having class.

I have known only a few people in my life that are truly blessed with the ability to enjoy being with people of any strata (political, economic, educational), and have those people equally enjoy being with them!

I have one good friend like this now. Much wealthier than me, he is at home and can have tactful discussions with both his right wing tea party friends as well as his left wing liberal friends, with silicon valley multimillionaires or out of work musicians, discussing quantum theory with physicists or bluegrass music at festivals.

Another one I knew was a physicist, world renown in his field, worked for him and had him over for dinner. Expected to chat about physics, instead he talked about romance novels with my wife!

It is never beneath you to be able to tailor your comments so they will make others comfortable, even when you think you are trying to "educate" them.

My father had this, I do not. But I am trying.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:13 PM   #133
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One thing I can say for sure is that many people on this board are not aware of how much envy and jealousy exists out there. Small town, big town, big city- envy is probably more frequent than not. Pols are not idiots, and they flog it all day long if it runs in their constituents.

Ha
Very well said.

Don't create enemies where you don't have to. It is needless headache.....
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:31 PM   #134
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Envy? Is this conserved like energy?

I bet everyone here has been envious at one time or another.
I've felt a bit of this in the past and tried to get it going in others.
Am guilty but trying my best to be a good human nowadays.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:55 PM   #135
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I am not lying in admitting I was envious for years peeking into the "Life after FIRE" section and seeing the happy, relaxed, and stress free folks in there. Seems weird that new "Young Dreamers" may be envious of me and my ER at 42.

Envy is ugly in many ways - but, darn it, did it ever help motivate me.
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:06 PM   #136
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There was the time on facebook when I was going to say: "It's only $100".
Then I realized that might be a month's food budget.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:07 PM   #137
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If we never see what can be achieved, how will we become motivated to achieve it? A little envy can be a good thing, assuming it is channeled into positive action, rather than resentment.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:09 PM   #138
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Is it really that expensive? I figured it might be $5-10 for a small tin or pouch (how is it even packaged?) at TJ's. Sure the good stuff that someone linked earlier is thousands. But fish eggs is fish eggs, and pregnant fish aren't too hard to find at spawning time.

I was at A's store and needed help, so asked her without really thinking about the implications (until the words rolled off my tongue).
Perception can be 9/10ths of someone's opinion.

Sadly, some people blow $10 or $20 without thought (even if they live paycheck to paycheck). However, they will still, in the same minute, very likely judge someone that they PERCEIVE to be high-falutin', even though that high-falutin' person is only spending $20 on 1/2 oz of caviar - which is more value than "A" spending $20 on lottery tickets or on 1 1/2 drinks at a bar (with tax and tip).

Also, two other interesting things:

1) You say

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Crap, I can't find any caviar. I don't even know why it's on my grocery list other than DW put it there (it wasn't me!). After looking everywhere for the caviar, I finally decide to ask someone. The only person around was my acquaintance A. I tried to make it sound less expensive by asking "do you know where the fish eggs or caviar is located?".
If anything, that could possibly make it sound even more insulting, since I'm willing to bet that most people over the age of, say, 25 probably know what caviar is, including those working in a grocery store (whether they know where it is kept, may be another story). But you clearly were aware of the nature and possible interpretation of your question, and the potential perception it would have, such that you went out of your way to phrase the question in a certain way to appear to not be snobby (while possibly coming across as even more snobby, implying that someone might be so underclassed as to not even know what caviar even is - even if you didn't want to appear that way). So you clearly were fully aware of the possible perception of what you were asking.

2 ) You also mentioned that

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Capers, marinated artichokes, wine, champagne, cheese - the regular things you get at TJ's that aren't cheaply found at Walmart or Aldi.
(You can find a variety of cheeses at both Walmart and Aldi's. I don't know what makes them so 'luxury', unless you pick up each wedge in someone's cart to see the $/lb for each....same for champagne: you can get it at Aldi or any store for $5-$10/bottle, or you can spend $100+/bottle. No one knows how much you spend unless it has the sticker on it)

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I already had my cart full of all these clearly luxury goods by this point. "A" told me the caviar is in the cheese section, but it's seasonal. Check back around Thanksgiving.

It felt awkward. And I felt a little guilty. I know I shouldn't feel guilty though.
So you were already feeling "awkward". But why? Did you have to push the cart in front of you up to the store clerk, showing off all of your "clearly luxury goods" in front of you? Were you able to leave the cart at the front of the aisle and walk up to them without your cart, to save yourself some awkwardness so they didn't have to gaze into your cart and see tons of things that would show hints at your lifestyle?
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:15 PM   #139
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If we never see what can be achieved, how will we become motivated to achieve it? A little envy can be a good thing, assuming it is channeled into positive action, rather than resentment.
Good point! Now I'm envious of you. I should have said that.
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:18 PM   #140
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Envy is a foundation that ambition is often built upon. Its called envy when its bare and raw and not going anywhere.


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