Awkward Wealth

[simple girl]

Money does change people. From the colleges their kids are considering, vacationing as couples, etc.,etc.

Yes, money can change the activities you can experience and things you can purchase.

But does it have to change who you are at your core, and if so, always for the bad?

Of course it does for many, evidenced by the experiences you have had and what we see happens to lotto winners, etc. But I firmly believe that it does not have to change your core values and how you treat others who may have less than you. I am saddened that you have met so many people who have let it change them in ways which resulted in them treating others so poorly.

 

[calmloki]

Grace. some have it, some don't. I don't think of myself as a very social person, but was at dinner with two other couples who are doing just fine and happily spending their upper school administrator pension checks. I was ashamed for our table by the loud disrespectful dismissive behavior. I made an extra effort with our waitress, who bore the posturing of several very picky eaters and made a point to include myself with the provincial Oregonians they were trashing. No call for their behavior. no grace. While we are probably in similar economic status I've no desire to hang with them. I've known richer and poorer who were more comfortable.

 

[robnplunder]

Although I'm not particularly gregarious, I can sincerely say that my own circle of friends includes people of different ages, genders, nationalities, occupations, political leanings, races, religions, sexual orientations and yes, wealth.

That's the way it should be, and the way I am. But there are people that Cheesehead mentioned who feel more comfortable hanging around with others with similar background. When I run into someone like that, I give them space and keep my distance. Actually, I stopped trying on the account of life is too short and there are 7 billion people to choose your friends from.

My few encounters with the richly inherited folks were pretty negative. One coworker in her 30s was so spoiled and obnoxious that it made me sick. She seems to have no reservations on anything, i.e, did pretty much what she wanted, revolted if things didn't go her ways, etc.. Another man often boasted about his dad's wealth, e.g "my dad has a mansion with 13 bedrooms." Engaging them even in small talk was difficult b/c they'd talk about things that I have no clue at the time (in late 20's, big mortgages).

 

[razztazz]

I know exactly what Cheesehead is describing even though our backgrounds are vastly different. The F Scott Fitz quote is a good one.

 

[RunningBum]

Well, that's what I get for posting before drinking my morning coffee! Get misconstrued.

I do have friends and peeps in our social circle(s) much different than us but not in much higher financial sphere. Money does change people. From the colleges their kids are considering, vacationing as couples, etc.,etc.

And that right there is the crux of the OP, as I see it. You are judging people by their money and avoiding people with more of it. This is exactly why FI people try to avoid conversations about money, and if you slip and say something that connotes wealth, it becomes awkward around people with less who have a bias about people with money.

 

[rodi]

I had an inheritance that was life changing... It allowed me to move my ER date up by 3 years.... as long as I live in my budget (which is pretty darn frugal.) I was still set to ER at age 55 without the inheritance, instead I ER'd at 52. I did NOT retire at the time of the inheritance. Rather, I retired 7 years later. I did not purchase any big ticket items - although we paid off the HELOC we were using for a construction project... that debt reduction allowed me to save MY earnings at a more significant rate since I no longer had that added debt. I continued to work, as did my husband. No easy street... no land rover... no issues with hired help as worries.

My car is 10 years old (older than the inheritance.) My husbands car is 18 years old. My kids college funds are still set to the PUBLIC university levels, not private colleges. None of that changed. Why would it.

I would say the goal of ER and frugality were not changed by the inheritance. But the timing was. I continued working and saving and finding ways to cut my budget for the 7 years after my father died to the time I retired. Knowing it was more in my grasp brought me to this site to research, to learn, to master the LBYM as a means to ER. (I was frugal before... but having ER more tangible made me more focused.)

You can think I'm a snob living on easy street.... Whatever. I think you're a reverse snob who makes assumptions about people that might not be valid.

 

[robnplunder]

My few encounters with the richly inherited folks were pretty negative. One coworker in her 30s was so spoiled and obnoxious that it made me sick. She seems to have no reservations on anything, i.e, did pretty much what she wanted, revolted if things didn't go her ways, etc.. Another man often boasted about his dad's wealth, e.g "my dad has a mansion with 13 bedrooms." Engaging them even in small talk was difficult b/c they'd talk about things that I have no clue at the time (in late 20's, big mortgages).

And I may add ... the group I was in had a lot of rich Jewish people, children of old money. Hiring managers reached out to their circle of friends and hired other richly inherited folks. I felt I was out of place and had to leave the group eventually.

 

[robnplunder]

I had an inheritance that was life changing... It allowed me to move my ER date up by 3 years.... as long as I live in my budget (which is pretty darn frugal.) I was still set to ER at age 55 without the inheritance, instead I ER'd at 52. I did NOT retire at the time of the inheritance. Rather, I retired 7 years later. I did not purchase any big ticket items - although we paid off the HELOC we were using for a construction project... that debt reduction allowed me to save MY earnings at a more significant rate since I no longer had that added debt. I continued to work, as did my husband. No easy street... no land rover... no issues with hired help as worries.

My car is 10 years old (older than the inheritance.) My husbands car is 18 years old. My kids college funds are still set to the PUBLIC university levels, not private colleges. None of that changed. Why would it.

I would say the goal of ER and frugality were not changed by the inheritance. But the timing was. I continued working and saving and finding ways to cut my budget for the 7 years after my father died to the time I retired. Knowing it was more in my grasp brought me to this site to research, to learn, to master the LBYM as a means to ER. (I was frugal before... but having ER more tangible made me more focused.)

You can think I'm a snob living on easy street.... Whatever. I think you're a reverse snob who makes assumptions about people that might not be valid.

Rodi, you don't qualify as an easy street snob. You can hang around with the rest of us.

 

[razztazz]

You can think I'm a snob living on easy street.... Whatever. I think you're a reverse snob who makes assumptions about people that might not be valid.

So, who doesn't? Knowledge, exposure, and repeated personal experience ought to allow some assumptions to be made or just what does it mean to learn something?

 

[Amethyst]

A co-worker whom I've known for years, and who expects to inherit a good deal of money when her 84-year-old parents eventually die, spends everything she and her husband earn - much of it on fancy dinners, vacations and social things. That said, she's quite responsible - all her bills are paid on time. I only know she spends "most of what they have" because she sometimes bemoans having very little saved.

Our friendship began over a shared love of shopping for clothes and excitement over new houses, furniture, etc. but has pretty much died out as Mr. A. and I have grown more frugal over the years. She has been rather critical of us for not going on vacations and "fun things" such as trying out new restaurants.

Amethyst

 

[longranger]

My experiences with people who have earned their FI have been almost all positive. The only exception are a couple of close friends who have been filthy rich for a decade or more. They have lost contact with reality as experienced the other 99% including friends that are FI but at a more modest level.

A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

 

[Moemg]

I have a sister in law who is trust fund baby . She is hard working ambitious and an all around nice person who is also frugal .If you met her you would never guess how wealthy she is .Her children are also hard workers and down to earth people .

 

[RunningBum]

My experiences with people who have earned their FI have been almost all positive. The only exception are a couple of close friends who have been filthy rich for a decade or more. They have lost contact with reality as experienced the other 99% including friends that are FI but at a more modest level.

A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

Assuming you enjoy their friendship, I would continue to socialize with them, and ignore the amount of the bill. I would probably also at least occasionally reciprocate by treating them to an occasional meal at a restaurant that does not have pricey options, or a home cooked dinner. Who knows, they may even realize they have just as good of a time at those dinners!

 

[longranger]

RunningBum that is exactly how we have handled things up to now. I am still working so reciprocating is easy now. After I stop working in the relatively near future we will have a tighter budget. Hopefully they will understand our new financial reality and our friendship can continue without hurt feelings. Suspect the main problem is in my head not theirs as far as expensive dining.

 

[Andre1969]

My few encounters with the richly inherited folks were pretty negative. One coworker in her 30s was so spoiled and obnoxious that it made me sick. She seems to have no reservations on anything, i.e, did pretty much what she wanted, revolted if things didn't go her ways, etc.. Another man often boasted about his dad's wealth, e.g "my dad has a mansion with 13 bedrooms." Engaging them even in small talk was difficult b/c they'd talk about things that I have no clue at the time (in late 20's, big mortgages).

I had a co-worker something like that. He didn't make a whole lot himself, and his wife was on disability, and watching kids "under the table", but his parents had money, and the father was always pretty generous in bailing them out.

Well, in 1999 they decided to combine households, selling the parents' house and their own townhouse, and having a nice, big house with an in-law suite built. At that point, they also had seemingly free reign on the parent's money.

I remember one time, commenting about having to put $1000 in repairs into the '85 LeSabre that Grandmom gave me when she had to give up driving, and he commented, dismissively, that I should get a new car and "Life's too short to drive crap!"

He was also a definite "keep up with the Joneses" type of guy. About a year earlier, one warm spring day in early 1998 I drove my '67 Catalina convertible to work, and we went out to lunch in it. He fell in love with the idea of a convertible so quickly that he took their truck and traded it in on a Chrysler Sebring convertible...his wife wasn't too pleased about that!

Still, he was a nice guy. But you could tell he was definitely getting out of touch, in some ways, because of his family's money. Also, when his father died, his Mom wasn't nearly as loose with the money, and their life of luxury evaporated. They had to downsize from a $660K house to a $270k house around 2003, and then lost even that. Last I heard they're both on disability, as he had a pretty bad stroke, and now they're living down in Appalachia somewhere.

 

[ChainsBeGone]

It felt awkward. And I felt a little guilty. I know I shouldn't feel guilty though.

Anyone else have those awkward wealth moments?

My awkward moment happened very shortly after retiring. I was at a big family gathering and out of the blue, one of my relatives looked at me and said, "I can't believe that YOU 'get' to retire early and don't have to work anymore!" The tone was not congratulatory, and was filled with resentment.

I was kind of stunned because my retirement was not even the topic of conversation for the group. Everyone new that I had just retired from the military, but I hadn't made a big deal about it. This was the first family gathering I'd been to in about 15 years, because most of the time I was on the other side of the world and too far to make it to a reunion.

I could have mentioned that I opened my first IRA with my very first Army paycheck back in the 1980's, and that we saved 20%-30% of our early-years' paychecks, despite raising a family on one income, and that sometimes it was tough to see others around us spending a lot more. I could have mentioned that we did not raise our standard of living significantly with pay raises, and that we saved over 50% of our paychecks in our last 5 years of service and that very few of our peers could even consider not taking up a 2nd career in order to keep paying the bills and their desired lifestyle. The pension is good and we are blessed, but without proper planning it would not be enough. But, in the end I didn't mention any of these facts.

I simply responded that it was a free market, and a volunteer military, and almost anyone willing to serve could have made the same choices I had made to be in my current position.

Surprisingly, my relative responded with an apology and we continued with the previous, unrelated conversation.

 

[FUEGO]

And Fuego, in the back of your mind you know you'll be coming into money, and I have seen a lot of people in that situation. Or those that married into it. Knowing that you will not need to worry about money in retirement you'll have a LOT less stress in your later years concerning retirement, a LOT less stress. And that makes you different whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not.

But you should have a Plan B in case the money doesn't materialize, which I have also seen. At the opening of the will friends who thought they would be on Easy Street learned it was left to the church, the university, etc.

Receiving a large inheritance is like Plan G for me. It will be so far in the future, of such an uncertain size, and not even a guarantee, that I discount it even more than I discount social security that I may receive 35 years from now.

The only stress the inheritance takes away is the fear of having to support my parents financially as they get older. They will most likely be okay.

I don't think the inheritance will change me a bit, since I expect to be retired for many decades before I receive anything. Who knows though, right?

 

[HFWR]

I have the awkward part down pat, but still working on the wealth...

 

[pb4uski]

....And when the DW wants to get together socially with people who I know are trust fund babies or lucked into a big inheritance I decline. Not that they’re bad people or I’m envious but that our concerns/perspectives in life are so very different. Your relationship to money, your nest egg is a different mindset, no sweat equity is represented just custodial. You can call it envy but I have a basic lack of respect, no matter how well I like them on their other traits. We come from working class origins and are now I guess you’d say upper middle class but we EARNED it.

......Oh P.S. I have a billionaire client who picks me up in his private jet a few times a year. Sometimes there’s several family members on board hitching a ride. What they talk about we mortals could not relate to, such as “finding help”, decorating the fourth home on some island, etc. And yes, I am envious because they didn’t earn it, all trust fund babies, and I can’t relate to them even though one-on-one they are the nicest people!

WADR, I think you have some issues to work through.

I have a few friends whose wealth came from "money in the family". One was a successful investment manager, was offered an early out from his employer and retired at 50 but could have retired much earlier from family money as I understand. Others were self made and later inherited substantial wealth. And others were aided by family money in setting up businesses but worked hard and made their businesses successful.

I think it is foolish to hold a grudge against someone because some of their wealth is inherited - do you think they had a choice? Oh, I think I'll turn down this large inheritance because what others might think of me.

You say money changes people... I would suggest that money changes people only if they let it change them... some do but many do not.

For me, I chose to hang with people based on how they treat me, DW and others and not based on the sources of their wealth.

 

[FUEGO]

A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

We have friends like this (not quite that extravagant though) who make multiples of what we made at the peak. They'll insist on buying us dinner or getting take out (and paying for it) when we dine at their house. It's never a ton - think $50-100 max. But we normally don't spend that much on ourselves. They like to host and to treat others to nice things.

We cook at home when they come over and might drink a bottle of $3 wine. The husband has been converted to LBYM and swore off restaurant meals for a month. The wife is down with it to a certain extent. We like to host in our own way, and the inequality in income isn't an issue. I've been helping them get more on the path to FIRE lately, so if anything, being open about our low-spending ways has been a net positive.

Of course I know these people very well, so I felt comfortable letting them in on our little stealth wealth secrets, and they understand our motivations.

 

[aja8888]

No worry about receiving a large (or any) inheritance since DW's and my parents passed a while ago. I did receive something from my parent's estate: I got to pay the funeral bills for both as my sisters were worse off than I was.

I do have stepdaughter who recently (after divorce #2) married a guy who is a trust fund baby. His dad is worth millions from what I hear. The guy doesn't work and is pretty arrogant around his extended family (us). He lives off a couple million trust his dad put in each of his kid's names. I guess he lives off the income the trust spins out (I have no details). Stepdaughter and her new husband are having the time of their lives and working on becoming alcoholics from what I can tell.

 

[razztazz]

I think it is foolish to hold a grudge against someone because some of their wealth is inherited - do you think they had a choice? Oh, I think I'll turn down this large inheritance because what others might think of me.

This is an assertion. I have detected no "grudges".

This seems to be the sine qua non of his postings:

Not that they’re bad people or I’m envious but that our concerns/perspectives in life are so very different.

 

[pb4uski]

My experiences with people who have earned their FI have been almost all positive. The only exception are a couple of close friends who have been filthy rich for a decade or more. They have lost contact with reality as experienced the other 99% including friends that are FI but at a more modest level.

A good example is a friend of mine who insists on having dinners at outrageously expensive restuarants. On top of that he brings a bottle or 3 of wine costing $1000 or more. We have let them know that we cannot afford that lifestyle and they react by insisting to pick up the bill. We also get together at eachothers homes and cook together often so have had several discussions about how DW and myself feel. They have made it clear that money is no object to them and that they are more than happy to pick up the bill at future dinners. It is very awkward. They consider us their best friends. Are me and DW being oversensitive or pridefull? Are they being insensitive to our discomfort? I don't know.

That's an interesting dilemma and I can understand your reservations. Assuming they are being truthful with you and really can afford it, try to look at it from their shoes.... money is not an issue for them and they enjoy spending time with you and doing finer things and are happy to pick up the tab. While I concede it is awkward, if your enjoy each others company then why not?

I have a good friend from high school who is lower middle class and we see each other frequently. I know I made a lot more than he did and am much wealthier (I do his taxes and have helped him with his retirement plan) and he probably realizes it also given the jobs I held and that I ERd at 56. When we go out and do things together, sometimes we split it, sometimes he pays but more often I pay only because I know I can afford it. It is not at all a big deal to me and I suspect your friends feel the same way.

 

[haha]

There is no such thing as awkward wealth; only awkward people.

Ha

 

[pb4uski]

This is an assertion. I have detected no "grudges".

This seems to be the sine qua non of his postings:

Not that they’re bad people or I’m envious but that our concerns/perspectives in life are so very different.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It seems to me that that Chessehead has a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment towards some people based on how they acquired their wealth, and not how they treat him and others.

Grudge is defined as a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment resulting from a past insult or injury. Not totally on point, but pretty damn close.