Awkward Wealth

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by purplesky The big issue these days is job hopping and unsteady employment makes it hard to save and invest consistently for middle income earners.

Laughable nonsense. I will easily earn $1 million more over my lifetime by job hopping than I would have by staying in the same place.

[athena53]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 Laughable nonsense. I will easily earn $1 million more over my lifetime by job hopping than I would have by staying in the same place.

I agree. I know a few people who did well sticking with the same company ( mostly high-power consultants who could bring in clients), but more who made it big by strategic moves to new employers every few years. I tended to hang with the same company unless things got bad and sometimes I regret that.

[aaronc879]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 Laughable nonsense. I will easily earn $1 million more over my lifetime by job hopping than I would have by staying in the same place.

But you're a high income worker. Purplesky was referring to people who earn around $50K/yr. Take a factory worker for example. She may work her way up to $20/hr over 10 years. If she gets layed off she may have a hard time finding a similar job that will pay her even $12/hr. Not sure why it works that way for some professions and not for others. Some people, like you, can quit one job and get a raise by going to another company doing the same work. Factory workers and other similar jobs often have to start over at the starting pay for that new company which is probably not higher than what she was making after 10 years at the other company. It worked for you and that's great but doesn't work for everyone in the lower income jobs.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by aaronc879 But you're a high income worker. Purplesky was referring to people who earn around $50K/yr. Take a factory worker for example. She may work her way up to $20/hr over 10 years. If she gets layed off she may have a hard time finding a similar job that will pay her even $12/hr. Not sure why it works that way for some professions and not for others. Some people, like you, can quit one job and get a raise by going to another company doing the same work. Factory workers and other similar jobs often have to start over at the starting pay for that new company which is probably not higher than what she was making after 10 years at the other company. It worked for you and that's great but doesn't work for everyone in the lower income jobs.

Sucks for them.

Seriously, this is why workers need to keep upgrading their skills. There are lots of ways to do this and it helps both the worker and the economy.

[athena53]

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Originally Posted by aaronc879 Take a factory worker for example. She may work her way up to $20/hr over 10 years. If she gets layed off she may have a hard time finding a similar job that will pay her even $12/hr. Not sure why it works that way for some professions and not for others.

My guess is that it's the union jobs. I know that if you're a flight attendant and you leave Airline A after 20 years and go to Airline B, you start at the bottom at Airline B- entry-level pay, crappy short-haul flights. This is why you run into so many flight attendants who clearly hate their jobs.


When pay is based on seniority and not merit, changing employers becomes a losing proposition.

[CaliforniaMan]

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Originally Posted by Walt34 Not even close to a scientific study, but every police officer "knows" that BMW drivers (in general of course and naturally present company excluded) consider themselves exempt from the laws of both man and physics. Occasionally they get a rude reminder that they are not. OTOH, Rolls Royce cars are always driven at a stately 5 mph under the speed limit. I was a patrol officer in the wealthiest area of one of the wealthiest counties in the country and don't recall ever stopping, let alone writing a ticket to, a Rolls driver. The only occasion I ever had to even talk to one was when he was hit by another car. Good thing the other guy was heavily insured!

Curious as to why you said the statement I put in bold.

[calmloki]

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan Curious as to why you said the statement I put in bold.

Dunno - have been the recipient of said rude reminders before...

[Ronnieboy]

I think the amount of money given, won or inherited would have to be considered in how it changes people too.

If I was suddenly given $1m tax free, it wouldn't change my lifestyle at all, it would just speed me faster to my goals of ER. Now, if $100m dropped into my lap (which to me is almost more money than I can spend) there would be big changes! Bigger house, more land, water park in the back yard, 1st class travel, 2nd home, houseboat at Lake Powell, etc. Then trust funds set up to live off the dividends. But I think I would still be the same person on the inside, just having a bit more fun and less stress.

When I read about someone like Garth Brooks or Facebook dude, having hundreds of millions of dollars to billions of dollars, I can't even conceive of spending that much money in my lifetime.

I think we should put this in a study, everyone on this board send me $1k per month until I get to the magical number and in return I will keep a personal journal/blog that you can read at anytime. To see if money does indeed change me over time.

[CaliforniaMan]

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Originally Posted by calmloki Dunno - have been the recipient of said rude reminders before...

Sorry, my mistake. I thought it was a reference to the university study not the personal observations which followed. Again I apologize to Walt34, I should read posts more carefully before commenting.

[Totoro]

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Originally Posted by Walt34 Not even close to a scientific study, but every police officer "knows" that BMW drivers (in general of course and naturally present company excluded) consider themselves exempt from the laws of both man and physics. Occasionally they get a rude reminder that they are not.

In my anecdotal experience, it works both ways too.

I rent cars quite frequently, so I drive around in many different models and makes.

Basically my impression is that I get a lot more 'slack' when driving a cheaper car. People won't let me through when I drive a BMW, but will make alot of room and galantly give me right of way when driving a Kia (low-end model) So I am forced to drive a bit more aggressive if I ever want to make it home with a BMW ..

What also helps is a foreign license plate. Much more forgiveness and consideration around you, even for really stupid mistakes (I still make them unfortunately).

In my local newspaper there was also an article recently that Audi owners get the most speeding tickets by a factor of four or so. This is from fixed cameras, so no bias from the police involved.

[photoguy]

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan Sorry, my mistake. I thought it was a reference to the university study not the personal observations which followed. Again I apologize to Walt34, I should read posts more carefully before commenting.

Actually there was a study on this out of UC Berkeley. The researcher found that BMW drivers are basically jerks and won't stop for pedestrians at crosswalks etc.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...ype=blogs&_r=0

Study hasn't been replicated as far as I know ( I'm a bit suspicious given the source and all the interest in inequity in the Bay Area). But it does match what people are saying here.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[Andre1969]

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Originally Posted by aaronc879 But you're a high income worker. Purplesky was referring to people who earn around $50K/yr. Take a factory worker for example. She may work her way up to $20/hr over 10 years. If she gets layed off she may have a hard time finding a similar job that will pay her even $12/hr. Not sure why it works that way for some professions and not for others. Some people, like you, can quit one job and get a raise by going to another company doing the same work. Factory workers and other similar jobs often have to start over at the starting pay for that new company which is probably not higher than what she was making after 10 years at the other company. It worked for you and that's great but doesn't work for everyone in the lower income jobs.

To a small degree, I was able to job-hop when I had my second job delivering pizzas, and got a few perks along the way. I started off at Little Caesar's, but wasn't getting the good shifts, and really wasn't making much money. So I went and applied with Papa John's. They weren't in direct competition with our store...at least not yet, but there were a few open that were close enough to where I lived. Anyway, I went through the training and everything, only to have the Little Caesar's manager ask me what it would take to make me stay. I did get a slight raise, and whatever shift I wanted.

Ultimately though, a Papa John's opened about a half mile up the street, and I jumped ship. They paid a bit better, and paid more per delivery. However, Little Caesar's actually did make an offer, to get me back, but I was still a lot better off sticking with Papa John's, because they were so much busier...I'd do better on the tips from the volume, even if Little Caesar's paid me a bit more in base. For awhile, I was actually bringing home more per week at Papa John's than I was from my full-time job! Although, that's really not a fair comparison, as the full-time job covered my 401k, insurance, and the bulk of my taxes.

But, you're right, for the most part, job hopping in the middle and entry level jobs isn't really going to get you up the pay scale. And even in my case, it wasn't much of a boost. I think Little Caesar's started me off at $5.25 per hour, and then boosted me to $5.50. I forget how much we got per delivery though. I remember making $6.00 per hour at Papa John's, and I think it started off at $0.60 per delivery, but later they bumped me to $1.00 per delivery.

I doubt if these types of jobs have even kept up with inflation. That was 1997-2001 that I was making $6/hr. Just to keep up with inflation, that would probably have to be around $8.50-9 per hour today, plus tips. I averaged around $16 per hour take home back then...which would equate to around $22-24 today.

[Nemo2]

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Originally Posted by Totoro Basically my impression is that I get a lot more 'slack' when driving a cheaper car. People won't let me through when I drive a BMW, but will make alot of room and galantly give me right of way when driving a Kia (low-end model) So I am forced to drive a bit more aggressive if I ever want to make it home with a BMW ..

That resonates with me, and takes me back to the 1960s....I had a big old Pontiac...the guy I worked for leased a brand new 1967 Thunderbird, (the large four door model)......he went off on vacation and said I could use it.......I'll swear it took me twice as long to get home!

[Andre1969]

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Originally Posted by Nemo2 That resonates with me, and takes me back to the 1960s....I had a big old Pontiac...the guy I worked for leased a brand new 1967 Thunderbird, (the large four door model)......he went off on vacation and said I could use it.......I'll swear it took me twice as long to get home!

If you ever watch old TV shows from the late 50's and early 60's, if they want to depict someone as a playboy, trust fund baby, or just well-off, haughty D-bag, they tended to put them in a T-bird.

In fact, I recently caught the episode of "Make Room for Daddy" that served as a spin-off for "The Andy Griffith Show", and at the beginning of it, they show Danny pulling on-screen in a '59 T-bird, being brought into town by Sheriff Taylor for running a stop sign. And Danny Thomas was pretty mouthy in that episode, calling Andy a hayseed, pulling out a big wad of cash to pay the fine, and being dismissive in general.

[aaronc879]

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Originally Posted by Andre1969 I doubt if these types of jobs have even kept up with inflation. That was 1997-2001 that I was making $6/hr. Just to keep up with inflation, that would probably have to be around $8.50-9 per hour today, plus tips. I averaged around $16 per hour take home back then...which would equate to around $22-24 today.

I delivered pizza from '98-'01 and I topped out at $5.50/hr plus tips. I briefly delivered pizzas in 2013 and I only made $5.25/hr plus tips when I was on the road and $7.25 when I was in-store. The tips were worse than 15 years ago so that job has definitely not kept up with inflation. Notice how the price of a pizza hasn't gone up at the chain stores for the last 15 years? That's because they haven't raised driver pay any in 15 years.

[Andre1969]

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Originally Posted by aaronc879 Notice how the price of a pizza hasn't gone up at the chain stores for the last 15 years? That's because they haven't raised driver pay any in 15 years.

I haven't ordered a pizza since I quit delivering back in 2001, but just out of curiosity, I checked an online menu. Papa John's is offering a deal with 2 large 2 topping pizzas, plus a 2-liter soda, for $25.00

I remember back in the day, in the store we'd often run a special of 2 large 1 topping pizza for $16.99 or $17.99. So factor in the cost of the extra toppings, as well as the soda, and the current special is probably priced similarly.

I still remember that with tax, those prices came out to $17.84 and $18.89, respectively. We tended to make more on the $16.99 special, because customers would often give us a twenty and say keep the change.

[purplesky]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 Laughable nonsense. I will easily earn $1 million more over my lifetime by job hopping than I would have by staying in the same place.

Seriously? Go tell all the underemployed college grads in the lost generation who live in their parents basement.

There are millions of workers who cannot buy a house or save properly for retirement due to job changing.

Good for you though. But job hopping isn't easy for everyone in the middle income range.

[ERD50]

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Originally Posted by LARS Newsflash: I'm fairly certain there are equal %s of jerks as a percent of their respective financial strata. Human nature is human nature irrespective of bank balances. And over the years, I've dealt with rich pricks and I've dealt with poor pricks and you know what: surprise, surprise, a prick is a prick. Moreover, just as you can't judge the net worth of a guy driving a 20 year old Chevy wagon (a la Sam Walton), you can also not judge someone driving a BMW or Porsche or Mercedes.

Totally agree.

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Originally Posted by Walt34 Not even close to a scientific study, but every police officer "knows" that BMW drivers (in general of course and naturally present company excluded) consider themselves exempt from the laws of both man and physics. ...

But there's another (more likely IMO) explanation. Since BMW's are seen as status symbols, some status seeking jerks will buy them if they can scrape up the money for a lease. These same people would be jerks if they didn't have the BMW.

And to be clear, I'm saying jerks may be attracted to BMWs, not that people who drive BMWs are jerks in general.

-ERD50

[Sarah in SC]

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Originally Posted by jjquantz Although... there was a very interesting study done that showed that drivers of expensive cars were much less likely to yield the right of way at 4 way stops than drivers of less expensive cars. I'll have to look up a citation. Of course, there are still nice drivers in expensive cars, but statistics mean something. Can't find a link to the study, yet, but here's one to a summary article with video: US university study shows luxury car owners tend to be rude drivers | TopGear.com.ph

I had to "teach" zipper merging to a dude in a BMW SUV yesterday during rush hour. Seems that he was less willing to risk his paint job than I was on my old Chevy Blazer, lol.

[Andre1969]

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Originally Posted by ERD50 Totally agree. And to be clear, I'm saying jerks may be attracted to BMWs, not that people who drive BMWs are jerks in general.

I get what you're saying, whole-heartedly. I got slammed a few years back on another website for making a comment about Hyundai and having it taken out of context. I said something along the lines of Hyundai's reliability ratings possibly being low because they're inexpensive cars, and often marketed to poor people with bad credit, who don't take good care of them, abuse them, let them get repossessed, etc.

Well, of course, a Hyundai owner got slighted. What I meant by the comment was that they could very well be great cars, but that subset of owners could bring down the averages. I didn't mean that every single Hyundai driver was a deadbeat one paycheck from living under a bridge! A lot of people buy Hyundais because they're a good value, and therefore the saved money can be put to other uses.