baby boomers article

farmerEd

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http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/01/retirement/summit/index.htm

According to research from Fidelity Investments, Baby Boomers only have enough in savings and other income sources to replace 59 percent of their pre-retirement income. Of those with 401(k) accounts, the average account balance is just $80,000, and many typically save just $2,750 a year toward retirement.

I don't get it...if the average account balance is a measely $80K, how can boomers have enough to replace 59% of their pre-retirement income?...I don't think anyone really has any idea what kind of shape boomers are in financially...so many conflicting articles...59% of pre-retirement income doesn't sound so bad to me...80K as an average balance is downright scary.
 
Lack of financial sense makes no sense to people who have it.

The hospital where my wife works...maybe 2-3 of the doctors and nurses she works with are contributing to their retirement savings at all. When she pushes them on it, they say they'll probably just keep working, or they're presuming the pittance pension and social security "will be enough".

Nobody in her family has a dime put aside for retirement.

I think the 'average' if you took out the BS and looked at it, consists of a lot of people with a decent retirement plan and a lot of people with nothing or nearly nothing at all.
 
From today's newspaper where Bruce Williams is a columnist. A sign of things to come for the unprepared....

Q from writer (and paraphrasing) - "I am 64 & have done little to prepare for retirement....My only asset is a $32,000 IRA...I moved to Vegas last year where I work and make $25,000 a year...I plan to work until the age of 70 and save via company's 401K and IRA contributions....With my IRA, additional savings and SS, will I be able to achieve a little independence?"

A from Bruce (and paraphrasing) - "I don't see an opulent retirement in 6 years for you....Even then (saving the SS he taps), life is going to be a little difficult and you might find yourself having to work part-time, even beyond 70."

We talk about what motivates us to save, prepare and hopefully FIRE. Well, for me, stories like this are one of them.
 
Once again, this demonstrates that all baby boomers won't run for the door at age 62, as the Social Security statistics suggests.

They will probably continue to work because they have to. They Will also put off taking social security when they see how much of it will be taxed by earning money at their jobs. And probably will die early, by the additional stress that working will cause.

Actually, I think S.S. is probably one of the only Government programs that is in fine shape. Everyone here does understand now that Dubya was not after Social Security, because it was a financial threat to the U.S. Treasury? ;)
 
Cut-Throat said:
Once again, this demonstrates that all baby boomers won't run for the door at age 62, as the Social Security statistics suggests.

They will probably continue to work because they have to. They Will also put off taking social security when they see how much of it will be taxed by earning money at their jobs. And probably will die early, by the additional stress that working will cause.
Even better, at age 65 their employers can cancel their health insurance and let Medicare take up the slack!

Ruh-roh...
 
OldMcDonald said:
I don't get it...if the average account balance is a measely $80K, how can boomers have enough to replace 59% of their pre-retirement income?...

I was suprised to see "59% replacement" number too - I don't see how the average baby boomer has resources for that - I'd like to see the assumptions and calculations.

If it is true, then the boomers are in much better shape than I've read elsewhere.
 
So many people I know--especially boomers--have elusive income, it's hard to know what 59% of their income is, what with bouts of un- and underemployment, intermittent contract employment, new jobs paying less than previous jobs, etc. Plus so many jobs these days come without the perks of traditional jobs--for many of us there is no pension or even 401k match (or even 401k at all at early-phase startups) and there's not so much emplyer contribution toward health insurance. When I say that my husband and I are living on 25% of our peak income, that peak income existed for just a brief time and wasn't even our last income before I retired and DH semi-retired. Our current income is more like 50% of our low-point regular income. And in full retirement we expect to have that same 25%...or is it 50%? Well, whatever it is, we live quite nicely on it.
 
BabyApe said:
The 401k comment is a meaningless statistic since people switch jobs so frequently and usually roll their 401k into an IRA. It sounds like a fidelity survey used as a press release to get attention in the media.

Surprisingly, two thirds of people in their 30's and early 40's cash out their 401k's when they leave, and almost 80% of people in their 20's cash it out, taking the penalty and tax hit. The majority of people under 50 that dont cash it out leave it where it is. Simple ignorance of their options is the likely culprit.
 
And if the 30 and 40 yr olds don't cash out they're constantly borrowing from it. I have people at work that think of it as a savings account. Half leave and never pay it back taking the hit on the penalty and taxes.
 
Here is information John Mauldin mentioned this week in his newsletter from a survey of 1000 people on saving for retirement: http://tinyurl.com/ks6e4


• Nearly a third of Americans saved nothing for retirement last year.
• One out of four Americans in their peak earning years, and nearing retirement (age 50-65), saved nothing for retirement in the last year.

“The results of this survey show us that for a comfortable retirement, Americans are going to need to become far more serious about their retirement savings,” said Forum CEO Don Evans.

The poll also indicates that those that are saving are putting away far too little:
• Nearly three out of five younger Americans (35-49) saved less than $10,000 for retirement last year – too little to sustain an average middle-class lifestyle in retirement.

Our survey also found that younger workers plan to rely far less on Social Security and far more on personal savings through tax-advantaged savings vehicles such as 401Ks and IRAs:
• More than half of Americans under 50 think Social Security will provide only a minor source of income, compared to 60 percent of Americans age 65 or older who rate Social Security a major source of retirement income.
• 65 percent of the youngest Americans (18-34), see 401Ks and IRA as providing a major source of income in retirement.



Poll conducted by RT Strategies February 23-26, 2006. N = 1,000 adults nationwide, Margin of Error: + 3.1%
###


Our office has good 401k participation, partly because we automatically sign people up and we are generous with employer contributions to the profit sharing portion of our 401k. However, my experience has been consistent with what CFB mentions, the younger people when leaving the job tend to cash in their 401k. I would talk to them and try to discourage them from doing so. But they always "needed the money."
 
Martha said:
Here is information John Mauldin mentioned this week in his newsletter from a survey of 1000 people on saving for retirement: http://tinyurl.com/ks6e4

• Nearly a third of Americans saved nothing for retirement last year.
• One out of four Americans in their peak earning years, and nearing retirement (age 50-65), saved nothing for retirement in the last year.

Ben Stein was on CBS Sunday Morning talking about the Boomers and retirement. He said the vast majority of Boomers were in "deep doo-doo" when it came to retirement savings. Once their meager savings is spent, they will be living on social security and face "a cut in lifestyle more dramatic than at any time since the Great Depression."

This fate is inevitable for most older Boomers, and younger Boomers will meet the same fate if they don't take drastic measures "today" to cut spending, get out of debt, and save.

He didn't mention the future of SS but did describe Medicare as a "train wreck". :p

He also didn't mention that many of them won't ever retire...
 
REWahoo! said:
Ben Stein was on CBS Sunday Morning talking about the Boomers and retirement. He said the vast majority of Boomers were in "deep doo-doo" when it came to retirement savings. Once their meager savings is spent, they will be living on social security and face "a cut in lifestyle more dramatic than at any time since the Great Depression."

This fate is inevitable for most older Boomers, and younger Boomers will meet the same fate if they don't take drastic measures "today" to cut spending, get out of debt, and save.

He didn't mention the future of SS but did describe Medicare as a "train wreck". :p

He also didn't mention that many of them won't ever retire...

I also saw the Ben Stein spiel.

He described the bleak retirement of many boomers, but somehow did not draw the conclusion that they won't stop working! :crazy:

I think if someone really believes that boomers will retiring in mass, they would also come to the conclusion that there will be a severe labor shortage also. This will prompt companies to keep older workers on the job, etc. etc. :confused:
 
I went looking for articles on "Total Savings" and "Boomers" this one came up.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20050114ar01p1.htm

This article seems to take into effect ‘all savings’ In it there are two tables

Table 3 http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/tables/cm20050114ar01t3.htm
Which shows the average/mean savings is $49,000, however the median is $2,000. For those non statisticians out there, that while the average (take all savings and divide it by the number of savers i.e. Warren and Bill) is $49,000, the median $2,000 (50% of the people are above this 50% below). This indicates that there are a lot of folks out there that are not FI or are even close to it. The Standard Deviation is $174,000. In a normal curve 98% of all values can be found within 2 standard deviations from the mean (Z factor). This would mean that most 98% would have from $0 to $348,000. I am not sure what the z factor would be for a skewed distribution, which this obviously is. (I know just about enough statistics to be dangerous!)

Table 5 http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/tables/cm20050114ar01t5.htm
This table would indicate that older boomers have less than $90,000 in the bank.

What does all this tell me? There are not many folks like us out there, that in the future there is a better chance of a 72 year old than a 16 year old handing me my order at Mickey Ds, and if history holds true, the biggest voting block is the elderly, we are in for a very interesting political upheaval.
 
Interesting stats.  I wonder where they get them from?  I know that I/DW have retirement investments among 5 major firms.  Do they look at our SS#, vs. our common address, divide by 2, and come up with a "fact"?

Believe me, I'm not complaining  ::); I just want to understand their "data mining" for these "facts"  :confused:

- Ron
 
Rustic23 said:
I went looking for articles on "Total Savings" and "Boomers" this one came up.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20050114ar01p1.htm

This article seems to take into effect ‘all savings’ In it there are two tables

Table 3  http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/tables/cm20050114ar01t3.htm
Which shows  the average/mean savings is $49,000, however the median is $2,000. For those non statisticians out there, that while the average (take all savings and divide it by the number of savers i.e. Warren and Bill) is $49,000, the median $2,000 (50% of the people are above this 50% below). This indicates that there are a lot of folks out there that are not FI or are even close to it. The Standard Deviation is $174,000. In a normal curve 98% of all values can be found within 2 standard deviations from the mean (Z factor). This would mean that most 98% would have from $0 to $348,000.  I am not sure what the z factor would be for a skewed distribution, which this obviously is. (I know just about enough statistics to be dangerous!)

Table 5  http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/tables/cm20050114ar01t5.htm
This table would indicate that older boomers have less than $90,000 in the bank.

What does all this tell me? There are not many folks like us out there, that in the future there is a better chance of a 72 year old than a 16 year old handing me my order at Mickey Ds, and if history holds true, the biggest voting block is the elderly, we are in for a very interesting political upheaval.

If those numbers are true, they are truly mind-boggling...but then I have a hard to reconciling them with my original post that the average person has saved enough to replace 59% of their income...guess stats can be slanted any way you want...

You'd be hard pressed to know that people are not wealthy...drive thru neighborhoods and look at all the meticulous mcmansions, 2 new cars in the driveway, the sales of 2nd homes, the cost of renting a beach-front house at any popular destination etc...sometimes I just don't understand how so many people can have so much money at their disposal, and then you read that the median savings is $2000 for retirement...just doesn't add up.

Sometimes I feel I should take my pile of marbles and move to another "younger" country...i.e. one that doesn't have the same oncoming trainwreck of demographics...course I don't know what country that would be. :(
 
rs0460a said:
Believe me, I'm not complaining  ::); I just want to understand their "data mining" for these "facts"  :confused:

This is just a guess, but, seeing as the article appears on the Bureau of Labor Statistics site, I would assume the savings data comes from census data. Here again, it is open for scrutiny. I wonder how one would show up with Wife and Husband IRAs, 401Ks, savings outside retirement plans, two defined pension plan, and SS. What income was studied is important. Recently there was big news about how the Savings Rate was at the lowest ever, however, it did not include IRAs or other 401K type savings.
 
Old Mcdonald,

The original article states that BBs have "savings and other income sources" to replace 50% of their income.  For the average retiree SS may be a much larger portion of their income than savings than for an RE.  An example scenario follows:

- Average pre-retirement income of $40k
- Assume that SS is $15k (these guys have been working 40 years)
- For pension assume that it is half of the pre-retirement income but that only 25% of retirees have a pension so on average the pension is (0.25)($20k) = $5k
- For savings using the 4% rule for $80k gives only $3k/year for savings

The percent of pre retirement income is then:  (100)(15+5+3)/40 = 58%

I'm to lazy to check my assumptions for SS and pension and since the calculation is very sensitive to those assumptions there may significant error there.

On a different note, the person in the above scenario will be in a lot of trouble if SS benefits decrease.  As you know and as Rustic23 mentioned this will probably be a major political issue.

C-T the person in the above example may opt to exert his political muscle to maintain SS and live off of that rather than continue to work?  They'll probably look around to find new things to tax.  Maybe a tax on all of those "rich" REs  :-[

MB  
 
Then there is this little tidbit that will make many here feel good about being in the Top 10% of net wealth.
The net worth of the typical family in the richest 10% rose to $831,600, a 6.5% increase from 2001, adjusted for inflation. In contrast, the net worth of the typical family in the bottom 25% fell 1.5% to $13,300.
The top 10% here excludes the big guys in the Forbes400 and the top 1 % is many times higher.  Net wealth incudes cash type assets,(401K, stocks, savings accounts etc)  cars, and real estate.  Does not include defined benefit pensions and of course your liabilities are subtracted.
More info here
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2006/02/fed_stagnant_ne.html
 
here are some articles i recently found:

http://finance.yahoo.com/columnist/article/yourlife/2808

Standards of Life in the Future: Think Grim
by Ben Stein

Monday, March 6, 2006
[Ben Stein]

I've had a couple of bad experiences recently that sharpened my worry about what life will be like for retirees in the future -- I fear that a catastrophe of declining standards of life is heading our way.

I'm thinking about how bad it has gotten in terms of how customers are treated. A few days ago, I called the saleswoman at an auto dealer who sold me my last car a few years ago. I asked her to come over and show me the newest model of my car and told her if I liked it, I would buy it on the spot.

"Sorry," she said. "Too busy."

"Really? Are you selling that many Cadillacs?"

"Well, I'm not really selling any, but a lot of people are looking and wasting my time," she said.

"But you know I'm a qualified buyer who has bought from you before," I protested.

"Maybe I'll fax you some stats," she said helpfully. I never got them.

How Much Worse for the Masses?

Today, I was supposed to have a nice comfy seat on United Airlines. Full-fare first class. When I got to the gate, the agent said my seat had been changed to one up against the bulkhead, and there was no way she could move me. No apology, not even looking me in the eyes.

On the plane, no flight attendant would help until an older one, from the days when United actually had some self-respect, asked a young man to change with me. He did, and I was happy. But meanwhile, the flight attendant who did help me told me I was the only full-fare first-class passenger in the cabin, and still no one had wanted to help me until she came along.

My point is how terrible service is -- even at the higher end in 2006 -- and then to add this chilling thought: If this is how bad it is at the high end now, can you imagine how awful it'll be for everyone in 2020? When all vestiges of service are gone? When no one speaks English? When all customers are just ciphers?

Look at it this way: Think of the most crowded freeway you're on every day. Imagine what it'll be like in 10 years. That's what hospitals will be like -- if they're not that way right now.

Retiree Vulnerability

To make the situation worse, retirees and those who will soon retire are far from financial safety (see "Living Hand to Mouth -- and Barely Getting By"). I recently calculated that the Baby Boomers need to have saved -- on average -- $400,000 per household to even start to come up with what they need to live on. Instead, they have saved about $50,000 per household if they have a rental home and about $110,000 if they own their home.

So, what will they do when they retire? What will it be like to cut pills in half, to have to sell your home and move into a trailer, to be faced with unaffordable repairs for your car?

Try this experiment: Imagine you have to slash your spending by half. What goes first? Restaurant meals -- fine. Vacations -- fine. New clothes -- fine. But that won't even come close to cutting spending in half for most people.

The sad fact is that retirees will suffer. And for the leading edge of the Boomers is: It's too late. Many of them cannot escape a drastic ratcheting down in income and lifestyle. A crisis akin to the Great Depression is racing our way: A ruinous drop in standards of life.

Shoring Up Your Retirement Savings

What will it be like to live in the horrible new dog-eat-dog world, with no one caring whether you live or die -- and have no money? What will it be like on that crowded freeway? You don't want to find out.

How do we get to high ground? I suggest -- unless you're already on track to have 15 times what you need to live on at retirement socked away by age 65 -- taking 20 percent of your paycheck if you possibly can, putting it in the Fidelity Fund (FFIDX) or the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSMX) until you're 55, then putting half of it into the Fidelity Total Bond Fund (FTBFX) or Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund (VBMFX).

Maybe if you have a few bucks extra, buy the iShares MSCI Emerging Markets Index ETF (EEM) or the iShares Russell 2000 Value Index ETF (IWN) for developing market or small-cap exposure. But for heaven's sake, do it now.

When you get to 65, put half of it into a fixed or variable annuity -- chosen so you know what every dime in expenses goes for and without buying anything you don't need or understand -- and then know you won't totally run out of money ever (see "A Retirement Portfolio With Staying Power"). Or do something else with a reputable financial planner.

But be very scared -- and start doing something about it now. Tomorrow is too late. Do it now




http://www.fool.com/Server/printarticle.aspx?file=/news/commentary/2006/commentary06030315.htm

Prepare for a Gruesome Retirement

http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06030315.htm

By Selena Maranjian (TMF Selena)
03/03/2006

It's time for some tough love. I want you to have a comfortable retirement, doing things that you enjoy and things you've always wanted to do. That may mean dining in some fine restaurants, traveling to the Galapagos Islands to see blue-footed boobies, taking your grandchildren to Hershey, Pa., and living in a spiffy retirement community. But judging from some statistics I recently ran across, you're in danger of a retirement that instead features dining on Salisbury steak TV dinners, traveling to the Git'n'Go down the street for a bag of chips, taking your grandchildren to the Salvation Army store with you as you shop for some new clothes, and living in your grouchy daughter's damp basement.

The facts
According to the 2005 Retirement Confidence Survey (RCS), we can be confident that many people will have gruesome retirements. Why? Here's a clue: According to a another survey, 31% of Americans would rather scrub a bathroom than plan for retirement. That's right -- if you've been putting off planning for your retirement, you're not alone.

Check out the RCS numbers below, which reflect the total savings and investments (not including the value of the primary residence) of today's workers, broken down by age groups:


Retirement Savings All 25-34 35-44 45-54 55+
Less than $25,000 52% 70% 50% 41% 39%
$25,000-$49,999 13% 12% 15% 14% 12%
$50,000-$99,999 11% 9% 14% 13% 7%
$100,000-$249,999 12% 5% 10% 17% 23%
$250,000 or more 11% 4% 10% 16% 19%


These numbers might not seem so scary, until you think them through a little. First off, remember that the numbers above ignore Social Security. That may be just as well. I've still got at least two decades until retirement. I recently received my latest statement from the Social Security Administration. The amount I can expect to receive at my full retirement age of 67 isn't much more than my current mortgage payment. My 30-year mortgage won't be finished by the time I hit the big 6-7, and my mortgage and tax payments will likely be much higher because of rising taxes. Making matters worse is the possibility that we can't be entirely sure that Social Security will be around in much the same form in our own golden years.

Pensions? Well, darn few of us have traditional pensions anymore. Check out this snippet from an Associated Press article: "In 1985, 89% of Fortune 100 companies offered traditional pension plans, but that had fallen to 51% by 2004, according to Watson Wyatt Worldwide, a human resources consulting firm. Some 11% of the plans in the Fortune 1000 were frozen or terminated for new employees, up from 5% in 2001."

So let's rely instead on those factors that are under our control -- our savings and investments.

What the facts mean
Let's say you're a typical American 40-year-old worker. According to the table, there's about a 50% chance that your savings and investments total less than $25,000. Let's be generous and assume you have $20,000 socked away. You've also got about 25 to 30 years until you retire. How will that money grow for you? Check it out -- let's assume you earn the market's average long-term return of 10%:

* 2006 (age 40): $20,000
* 2016 (age 50): $51,875
* 2026 (age 60): $135,550
* 2036 (age 70): $349,000

Now let's use some information I've gleaned from our Rule Your Retirement newsletter: In order to make your nest egg last, you should conservatively plan to withdraw about 4% of it per year in retirement, to live on. So 4% of $349,000 is almost $14,000. That's nearly $1,200 per month. Will that be enough? Well, according to an inflation calculator I checked, over the past 30 years, what cost $1 initially ended up costing about $3.75. Let's say that prices only triple over the next 30 years. If so, your $14,000 in 2036 will buy you what $4,700 will buy you today. That's less than $400 per month.

Another way to look at it is to realize that the 4% withdrawal rate should include inflation-indexed increases, so if you're taking out $14,000 in the first year and inflation that year is 3%, the next withdrawal will be 1.03 times $14,000, or $14,420. Can you see how quickly your money will get depleted this way? (Note that you can withdraw more each year. If you're taking out 5% annually over 30 years, you have roughly a 3-in-4 chance of not running out of money, but that's much less of a sure thing.)

If you want to live off the current equivalent of $50,000 per year in 30 years, you might estimate that you'll have to be able to withdraw $150,000 yearly. If that's 4% of your nest egg, it will need to be ... $3.75 million.

It's better ... and worse
Of course, this is just one hypothetical example, and there are lots of other concerns that make matters both better and worse. For example:

* Many of us are well past 40 and still have less than $25,000 socked away. Heck, 39% of those 55 and older are in that camp.
* But remember that we can all make the situation better by investing regularly. A rule of thumb is to save and invest 10% of your income, but more is better.
* Many of us will have home equity to tap, if need be, in retirement. We'll also likely be receiving at least something from Social Security, and perhaps even a little from a pension.
* Keep in mind that the stock market's return over the next 10, 20, and 30 years isn't likely to match the historic average of 10%. It may well be higher -- or lower, meaning you can end up with a considerably smaller nest egg than you expected. It's similar with individual stocks. Look at Intel(Nasdaq: INTC) as an example. Between March 1996 and March 2006, its stock advanced roughly 200%. But over the decade starting three years earlier, between March 1993 and March 2003, its stock rose about 365%.
* Don't assume that your stash of company stock will save you. Having too much of your financial future resting on the fate of one company is risky. If you'd acquired shares of stock in the Gap(NYSE: GPS) five years ago, for example, you'd be underwater by more than 20% today. Investors in Coca-Cola(NYSE: KO) haven't fared much better, leaving investors who've hung on for the past 10 years not much richer than when they started. This doesn't mean these companies won't ultimately surge and reward us, but if anyone was counting on them to do so by a certain time, they've likely been disappointed.






Personally, I'm not a big fan of Ben Stein because of his constant talk and love for annuities. I did like the Fool article better. However, neither of these authors mentioned the fact that many baby-boomers will be receiveng an inheritence before or by the time they retire (mid-sixties). I remember reading somewhere that cureently, we have the richest senior-citizens ever, compared to past generations of senior-citizens.
 
cons said:
Personally, I'm not a big fan of Ben Stein because of his constant talk and love for annuities. I did like the Fool article better. However, neither of these authors mentioned the fact that many baby-boomers will be receiveng an inheritence before or by the time they retire (mid-sixties).

What both articles failed to mention is that a significant number of the financially unprepared (those whose health will permit) will NOT be retiring in their mid-sixties. They will be forced to continue working as long as they can as they will really have no choice.

We pointed this out in another thread and found some comfort in the fact those who continue to work will continue to fund SS. Looks like Ben Stein missed the fact that these old folks might also be more customer friendly.

Then again if they are forced to continue working when they want to be retired, they may be a customers worst nightmare. :eek:
 
cons said:
It's time for some tough love. I want you to have a comfortable retirement, doing things that you enjoy and things you've always wanted to do. That may mean dining in some fine restaurants, traveling to the Galapagos Islands to see blue-footed boobies, taking your grandchildren to Hershey, Pa., and living in a spiffy retirement community.

Personally, whenever I see blue-footed boobies I find that's a sign of ill health and not a good kind of booby.
 
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