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Old 09-29-2008, 01:52 PM   #21
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I guess I am the only one here who is happy about the outcome. It will hurt for the short term, but in the long term, it is best to let te market sort itself out. I still have faith in Capitalism.
That is my initial feeling as well however I would like to be more sure about it.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:56 PM   #22
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This is great news. I am so happy that we have not piled another 700 billion in debt on our grandchildren's shoulders. It is hard for me to imagine that anyone thinks it would have been a good idea to pass this bailout with less than a week to deliberate on it. If the bailout were to pass every mortgage holder in America would be wondering if it would be a good idea for them to quit making payments and let the government bailout take care of their mortgage. Capitalism works and it works well if we let it.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:56 PM   #23
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Dawg52, just a friendly suggestion - - do not look at the market today! Why torture yourself.

Go play golf. It looks gorgeous out there, from cubicle prison anyway.

Yesterday I didn't think I could do another day at work, but here I am. (That lifetime medical had better be worth it.) After today I will only have 403 more days to go (including weekends, vacation, and holidays).
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:57 PM   #24
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I guess I am the only one here who is happy about the outcome. It will hurt for the short term, but in the long term, it is best to let te market sort itself out. I still have faith in Capitalism.
I can definetely understand where you are coming from. I think the pain is useful, hopefully it will stop us from being so stupid for another two or three generations.

It is just that I'm worried about how much pain we are going to have. A year ago if you'd have told me that Fannie and Freddie would be taken over by the government, that Lehman go bankrupt, and that Morgan Stanley and Goldman would get into _serious_ trouble, I would have thought you were nuts. I think the doomsayers have more credibility than the Pollyannas right now, and the best that I see happening is that the pain is long and drawn out.

I think the bailout bill should have been passed. When you really think about it, if the $700,000,000,000 would have prevented the worst case scenarios it would have been money well spent.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:58 PM   #25
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To be quite honest, I haven't decided one way or the other, whether "I be fer it, er I be agin it". I can see the good and the bad of either decision.

So I think maybe I'll just go fishin' and see if I can find an absolutely 100% positive outcome in that.......well positive in everyone's eyes 'cept maybe the fish's.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:59 PM   #26
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Well, I guess we'll see if capitalism can, without government intervention, sort out the mess it created in the first place. We will all serve as guinea pigs for this real-life experiment! It's so fun!!!!
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:03 PM   #27
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Quote from a Congresscritter:

"We're all worried about losing our jobs," Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., declared in an impassioned speech in support of the bill before the vote. "Most of us say, 'I want this thing to pass, but I want you to vote for it — not me.' "

Now THAT is leadership.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:03 PM   #28
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When you really think about it, if the $700,000,000,000 would have prevented the worst case scenarios it would have been money well spent.
That's the problem, though--no one really knows what's going to happen. I've heard intelligent people claim that if we don't pass the bailout, we'll go through a period of short-term pain, but everything will work itself out after that. I've also heard other intelligent people claim that we're facing economic catastrophe if we don't pass the bill. Tough to know who to believe.

If congress really wants to pass this bill, they have to do a much better sales job than they're doing. Even if you can't agree with the decision, at least we can be thankful that our representatives appear to be listening to us. Whether or not that's a good thing is another story.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:03 PM   #29
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This is great news. I am so happy that we have not piled another 700 billion in debt on our grandchildren's shoulders.
Except this would not have piled another $700B in debt. It might have piled up none depending on how the assets bought ultimately performed. If they don't work out a deal we get to see if the economic pundits are correct that we will experience a global financial meltdown. If things get as bad as some of the prediction we will end up piling a lot more than $700B on our grand kids shoulders.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:09 PM   #30
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Exactly right. Joe Mainstreet doesn't understand it, complains to congressman, congressman gets scared, votes no.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:17 PM   #31
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If they don't work out a deal we get to see if the economic pundits are correct that we will experience a global financial meltdown. If things get as bad as some of the prediction we will end up piling a lot more than $700B on our grand kids shoulders.

The same "economists" that today are saying that without this bill the world will end were, just six months ago, saying that everything was fine and that the fundamentals were solid. The ones that were sounding the alarm 6 years ago are the same ones that today are saying that this bail out will not solve anything and will just make matters worse. Which ones do you think have more credibility?
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:18 PM   #32
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That's the problem, though--no one really knows what's going to happen. I've heard intelligent people claim that if we don't pass the bailout, we'll go through a period of short-term pain, but everything will work itself out after that. I've also heard other intelligent people claim that we're facing economic catastrophe if we don't pass the bill. Tough to know who to believe.
That we don't know what will happen is the problem. To oversimplify, if we'd have passed the bailout bill our downside would have been $700,000,000,000. But since we didn't pass it our downside could be potentially unlimited. WaMu went splat last week, Wachovia went splat today. I hate to think about what is next. Now is not the time to roll the dice.

I looked at the bailout as a kind of insurance. Flood insurance may cost alot, and you might use it once every hundred years, but it can be the difference between financial survival and spending the rest of your days as a Wal-Mart greeter when a big flood hits.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:19 PM   #33
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To be quite honest, I haven't decided one way or the other, whether "I be fer it, er I be agin it". I can see the good and the bad of either decision.

So I think maybe I'll just go fishin' and see if I can find an absolutely 100% positive outcome in that.......well positive in everyone's eyes 'cept maybe the fish's.
Goonie, you are a wise man!! Have a great time.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:21 PM   #34
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Exactly right. Joe Mainstreet doesn't understand it, complains to congressman, congressman gets scared, votes no.
Paulson made a mistake high balling the figures required. He should have gone with 250 B with more to come if necessary. The 700 B-1 T figure caused people to lose their minds and made it hard for congress to vote without negative feedback from their electorate.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:22 PM   #35
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I'd like to think that. But right now it feels like the choices are to run through a wall of fire (do the bailout) or plunge into a vat of acid (do nothing).

I'd like to play the "good free market capitalist" card but when these Wall Street clowns have the potential to ruin millions of innocent people when they ruin themselves, I don't think "let 'em go under" is necessarily appropriate.

If anything else, it ought to give us cause to reconsider whether a business should be able to become "too big to fail" because of the hurt its failure would put on a lot of innocent parties.
+1 Ziggy Sometimes I swear we must be virtual twins. Just about every time you post something I would swear you were channeling my thoughts! Keep it up! It saves me the typing.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:22 PM   #36
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WaMu went splat last week, Wachovia went splat today. I hate to think about what is next.

I was a Wachovia customer until this morning. Now I guess I am a Citi customer (great!, weren't they on the endangered list too?). Who knows who my bank will be in a month's time!
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:25 PM   #37
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C'mon boys and girls, time to back up the truck. They're having a sale...
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:27 PM   #38
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"Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 84 (28 members and 56 guests)"

edit:

"Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 102 (39 members and 63 guests)"

(hmmm, seems to be running inverse to the stock market)
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:27 PM   #39
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Tif we'd have passed the bailout bill our downside would have been $700,000,000,000.
Not true. That's what it's initially limited to, but they may very well find that it isn't enough. It's just an artificial limit.

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But since we didn't pass it our downside could be potentially unlimited. WaMu went splat last week, Wachovia went splat today. I hate to think about what is next.
I could be oversimplifying here, but aren't bank failures a sign that capitalism is working? Don't we need failures for the system to work? Didn't we have hundreds more bank failures during the S&L scandal?

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Now is not the time to roll the dice.
And what do you think they're doing with this bill? They're not sure it's going to produce the results they're claiming. I think anything at this point is rolling the dice.

I'm not an economist, so I don't know. However, the vast majority of the politicians urging support for the bill aren't economists either. And there are plenty of economists who don't support the bailout. So like I said, tough to know who to believe.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:28 PM   #40
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C'mon boys and girls, time to back up the truck. They're having a sale...
Lol. Good point.
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