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Old 09-29-2008, 02:31 PM   #41
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Here's the roll call....link courtesy of the NY Times

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:33 PM   #42
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hfwr, yer gonna love this. i'm actually typing on a desk i purchased from the remains of the old miami-based centrust during the s&l debacle. i hope it isn't jinxed.

my desk used to be here (i'm not sure where it's gonna be when i have to sell it--fuel for cooking?)
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:35 PM   #43
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C'mon boys and girls, time to back up the truck. They're having a sale...
Why buy now when the DOW could be at 5000 shortly?
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:36 PM   #44
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C'mon boys and girls, time to back up the truck. They're having a sale...

Currently our stock market is down 945 points....no panic here

But I keep thinking it will go lower over the next few months whether the bailout eventually gets passed or not. I think we are in a global slow down regardless of any bailout packages. Two European banks failed this weekend and another was thrown a lifeline in Germany.

I keep putting money into the market and it heads lower...I am waiting it out...I still think we have much more decline to come in 2009. Maybe nibble a bit on the way down
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:38 PM   #45
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Here's the roll call....link courtesy of the NY Times

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
Well I'll be darn. My congressman voted yes.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:38 PM   #46
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I could be oversimplifying here, but aren't bank failures a sign that capitalism is working? Don't we need failures for the system to work? Didn't we have hundreds more bank failures during the S&L scandal?


.
I do not believe so, the banks were not operating under the assumption that it was a capitalist system. The assumption was the government sponsored entities would provide a ready market to hold up home prices and provide to the masses mortgages that many individuals would not be able to obtain under a capitalistic system. The government program to encourage housing, furthered even deeper by extending easy mortgage terms to non-qualifiers with mortgage "insurance" provided the bubble. It is merely the unwinding of this non-capitalistic bubble that is causing the problem. Nobody wants that paper anymore.

Under a purely capitalistic system, many people would have been renters instead of borrowers.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:40 PM   #47
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maybe this nay vote was the lesson. shooting off a toe. (my rep voted aye)
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:45 PM   #48
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Here's the roll call....link courtesy of the NY Times

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
Looks like the relative moderates of both parties were more likely to support it, and the relative extremists of both parties opposed it.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:49 PM   #49
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I guess I am the only one here who is happy about the outcome. It will hurt for the short term, but in the long term, it is best to let te market sort itself out. I still have faith in Capitalism.
I agree. Water will find its own level and, despite the rhetoric, the sky is not falling. If the stock market is overpriced, then let it correct itself short of government artificially propping up prices. Unfortunately, I sense that the politicians will, in the end, vote to continue this nonsense thru a bailout. I have more faith in capitalism than socialism.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:50 PM   #50
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I think they will just do some more posturing, and vote again tomorrow, or WED. Then it will pass.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:52 PM   #51
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'God Looks After Drunkards, Fools, and The United States of America.' No word on his opinion of Congress - I'll stick with Mark Twain for that.

By the the by - The Saint's won and I 29 headed north of KC was jammed coming back from New Orleans - Chief's beat Denver.

Auto deduct is rebalancing as I type - Target Retirement.

And lest I be remiss - Pssst - Wellesley!

heh heh heh - Oh and overpacked the jumbo shrimp - getting the shrimp smell out of the back of an SUV is the new project - now that's something to worry about. .
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:52 PM   #52
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Anyone think this is just McCain's playing politics? keep everyone hanging, then come Thursday McCain will rally house republican to pass the bill. It will accomplish 2 things

1. He wants to be seen as savior
2. market rally and bill pass will distract people from how horrendous sarah palin is in the debate
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:55 PM   #53
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367 views in 227 minutes. so much for security in early retirement.

"Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 117 (54 members and 63 guests)"

screw this. i'm going back to work. (are there any jobs?)
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:56 PM   #54
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Not true. That's what it's initially limited to, but they may very well find that it isn't enough. It's just an artificial limit.

I could be oversimplifying here, but aren't bank failures a sign that capitalism is working? Don't we need failures for the system to work? Didn't we have hundreds more bank failures during the S&L scandal?

And what do you think they're doing with this bill? They're not sure it's going to produce the results they're claiming. I think anything at this point is rolling the dice.

I'm not an economist, so I don't know. However, the vast majority of the politicians urging support for the bill aren't economists either. And there are plenty of economists who don't support the bailout. So like I said, tough to know who to believe.
In normal times I would agree with you. These are not normal times. I'm worried about how messy it could get if we don't do anything.

Yes I know that letting businesses fail is good for the economy and I know why that is. Everyone reading this board can give the reasons for that in their sleep. But do you really want to see how bad it can get without something in place to stabilize things?
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #55
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BTW, where are the people who used to make fun of the "tinfoil hats" and "piglet sodomizers" anytime someone sounded an alarm here?
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:59 PM   #56
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I think they will just do some more posturing, and vote again tomorrow, or WED. Then it will pass.
cspan announced a few minutes ago no meeting again until thursday (tonight starts jewish new year). happy new year everyone.

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Anyone think this is just McCain's playing politics? keep everyone hanging, then come Thursday McCain will rally house republican to pass the bill.
i had that thought but didn't share it here so as not to soapbox. (i found the same posturing with the debate when he tried to show that he was too indispensible to attend.)
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:00 PM   #57
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I'm for the bail out if we jail all responsible parties such as goverment officials, bankers and the people who applied for those loans knowing that they can't afford to pay back.

Other than that, just let the free market rights itself.
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:02 PM   #58
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BTW, where are the people who used to make fun of the "tinfoil hats" and "piglet sodomizers" anytime someone sounded an alarm here?
Trying to figure out is they should dump Alcoa now or later.
eclectech : the tinfoil hat song
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:03 PM   #59
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I think they will just do some more posturing, and vote again tomorrow, or WED. Then it will pass.
Tomorrow is a Holiday and by Wednesday there will be no chance this particular piece will pass. Positions will have set into concrete by then. I think her majesty the speaker of the house sealed the doom of this thing in her speech just before the vote. Even many in her party said she did.
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:06 PM   #60
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cspan announced a few minutes ago no meeting again until thursday (tonight starts jewish new year). happy new year everyone.
I wish the markets would close for the next 2 days. BTW, just heard Donald Trump say he thinks oil will drop to the $20-30/bl range. And that is the silver lining to all the mess. Hard to believe.
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