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Old 09-29-2008, 05:34 PM   #101
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It was the timing..... She could have simply announced the bill was ready for vote and asked for bipartisan support. Then, after it passed, gave the speech demonizing the Republicans, etc. etc.

A head up her butt move to say the least. She acted/sounded like she didn't want it to pass. And she's the leader....... soooo......

I watched her speech on C-Span and was pretty surprised. I had thought she supported the bill until that speech. Strange.

Rick
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:02 PM   #102
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I think they all want it to pass, but in all the jockeying to either take credit or assure a foundation for laying blame depending on the outcome, they all overdid it a little bit.
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:32 PM   #103
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Here's the roll call....link courtesy of the NY Times

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
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Well I'll be darn. My congressman voted yes.
See down there at the bottom, the lone congressman to NOT even bother voting.....That would be the waste of flesh from my district (Illinois’ 11th District), Jerry Weller. He was probably down in Guatemala visiting with his relatively new father-in-law, former dictator General Efrain Rios Montt.
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:52 PM   #104
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I think they all want it to pass, but in all the jockeying to either take credit or assure a foundation for laying blame depending on the outcome, they all overdid it a little bit.
A bit? I would say a lot! They were doing this before any plan was finalized. And what's amazing is that the final bill voted on had a lot less special interest pork in it than the bill heading into the weekend.

My wife, who's been part of banking (banks and credit unions) for over 31 years, says they are tackling this problem the wrong way. I'm certain that her opinion wouldn't sit well with many here wanting the stock market to go up so their portfolios would rise. But she honestly thinks that the voted on bailout plan was destined to failure down the road, and maybe not too far down the road.
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:57 PM   #105
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My wife, who's been part of banking (banks and credit unions) for over 31 years, says they are tackling this problem the wrong way.
Can you give as a run down on what she thinks is the right way? I'm curious. I've avoided calling my old banker friends/clients.
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:58 PM   #106
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A bit? I would say a lot!
Well, I have this tendency to be a bit understated.

Can you really blame them? Look at the shellacking the last few rounds of candidates have had to endure over what they voted and when with regards to the war. "You voted (For/Against) it HERE, so you're a bad person!".

So this time around, nobody wants to have voted for or against anything this big. Whether its needed or not is debatable. What isnt really likely is that it'll solve all of our pending economic issues.

Given that the average joe doesnt even understand what the hell is going on, or what this bill will fix, and that we're going to have a year or two of less than economic happiness, I can see why the trained professionals on capitol hill are a little encouraged to make sure they have at least one vote for AND a vote against it, so that on election day they can say they voted for it but were talked out of it, or that they voted against it and were talked into it.

Pols as usual.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:03 PM   #107
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heh heh heh - at least Mr Market and Congress are giving us something to talk about. This too shall pass - Right?
Uncle Mick, good to see you're still here, in good spirits, and signing off with your trademark laugh; I still have faith in the markets.

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Old 09-29-2008, 07:08 PM   #108
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Can you give as a run down on what she thinks is the right way? I'm curious. I've avoided calling my old banker friends/clients.
I sent her an email asking for a short list of what she thinks needs to be done. I may not find out for a few hours, so I may post it sometime later.

She has said that she is quite nervous with the growing, short list of bank monopolies. She says that we are falling into the same trap as the 1920's.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:13 PM   #109
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Can you give as a run down on what she thinks is the right way? I'm curious. I've avoided calling my old banker friends/clients.
That's a good question - if this is the wrong way (& I tend to think it is) - what are the "other" ways - surely there are some alternative actions the federal government could take, all with their own pros, cons, & probabilities of positive effect.

Why didn't Paulson & Bernanke lay out the various alternatives to the Administration & Congress along with the pros, cons, & their recommendation as to which option they thought was best?

I only heard one plan from them & it was presented pretty much as a take it or leave it deal. with the only alternative being a "Great Depression" - and perhaps this is a big part of why the bill failed.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:16 PM   #110
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I sent her an email asking for a short list of what she thinks needs to be done. I may not find out for a few hours, so I may post it sometime later.

She has said that she is quite nervous with the growing, short list of bank monopolies. She says that we are falling into the same trap as the 1920's.
Let us know..... Your wife isn't the only person worried about a few giant banks and the govt controlling the mortgage business in the US............
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:20 PM   #111
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I'm still voting for providing more direct short term financing to American non-financial companies to get them through this credit crunch. Streamline it! Banks are getting all sorts of short term cash infusions from the Fed, but they are not willing to lend!

Yes, the bank consolidation is getting big time scary!

Oh - and - the FDIC limits are way too low. If they continue to stay this low people/companies who actually have cash are going to park it in treasuries instead of providing it to municipalities and commercial markets.

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Old 09-29-2008, 07:23 PM   #112
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But she honestly thinks that the voted on bailout plan was destined to failure down the road, and maybe not too far down the road.
One problem with the bill was that it gave the Treasury Dept so much flexibility of implementation that it was impossible to make any credible predictions at all. For example, we didn't even know how much money was going to be devoted to 'trickle-up' homeowner assistance vs. 'trickle-down' bad debt purchases. This was all left as TBD.

I would support some type of gov't assistance program if it were narrowly targeted so you could at least argue meaningfully over whether or not it would work. You could also make a reasonable guess as to how many people would be covered under the proposed program, so you could estimate its cost. The Paulson bill covered a mind-bogglingly wide range of 'impaired' people and institutions, making its ultimate cost difficult to determine.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:46 PM   #113
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they all overdid it a little bit.

Well.... I screwed up again. Damn. I gave out the youbet understatement of the day award this afternoon to FD thinking no one could possible outdo him today. I was wrong. This is the understatement of the day! I guess I'll declare co-winners. Nice job guys!
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:02 PM   #114
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She has looked pretty good all through this. Actually, she looks good period!

Ha

Good one, she really did a great job today and her history lesson was the best fiction I read in a long time......Ha just add the liquor,blue pill and your good to go (she's definitely got Horns)
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:29 PM   #115
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Many House members who voted against the bailout today said they did so because they didn't want the American taxpayer to be on the hook for the mismanagement and failure of financial institutions. This Time article says it's too late, they already are:

"But there's a catch: taxpayers are already on the hook for the failures of financial institutions,
and it's possible that the bill will actually be larger without bailout legislation than with it. That's because the regulators who mind the financial industry — the Federal Reserve, Treasury and FDIC — will keep doing what they've been doing: stepping in to prevent the chaotic failure of banks and other large financial institutions. This means continuing to put hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars at risk, but in a way that adheres to no clear plan of action and doesn't require members of Congress to explicitly approve their actions."
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:33 PM   #116
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This too shall pass - Right?
Like the lactose-intolerant kid with the gallon of ice cream
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:35 PM   #117
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I sent her an email asking for a short list of what she thinks needs to be done. I may not find out for a few hours, so I may post it sometime later.

She has said that she is quite nervous with the growing, short list of bank monopolies. She says that we are falling into the same trap as the 1920's.
Except in the 1920's Herbert Hoover, on the advice of Treasury Secretary Melon, said . . . "Let it be. The market will sort itself out"

Oh never mind, it is just like the 1920's.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:42 PM   #118
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Many House members who voted against the bailout today said they did so because they didn't want the American taxpayer to be on the hook for the mismanagement and failure of financial institutions.
Nice spin.

The NBC political analyst took a look at the votes and concluded that one factor explained almost all of the votes. Congressmen who were in very close elections in the recent past or near future voted against it. Those who were not, voted for it.

So as it turns out they voted to save their own jobs, not yours.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:06 PM   #119
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Nice spin.

The NBC political analyst took a look at the votes and concluded that one factor explained almost all of the votes. Congressmen who were in very close elections in the recent past or near future voted against it. Those who were not, voted for it.

So as it turns out they voted to save their own jobs, not yours.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! That also helps explain the weird mix of those voting for and against this thing.

Maybe they were also shorting the market and will go long on Thursday
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:29 PM   #120
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after listening to a replay of Pelosi's speech I thought she did a fabulous job of urging members of congress to not vote for the bill and to make sure that it wouldn't pass.
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