Be careful with UNFCU Chip & PIN Visa

[braumeister]

This might be more appropriate in the travel forum, so I'm sure a kindly mod will move it if so. This is my three-month saga of trying to get a chip & PIN credit card from UNFCU.

After having some sticky situations in Europe (like many others here) trying to use a USA chip & signature credit card at an unattended kiosk, I wanted to try to forestall future difficulties by getting a "real" chip & PIN card like Europeans have.

My research showed that a good source would be United Nations Federal Credit Union (UNFCU) in NYC. That made sense to me, since they would have lots of international members assigned to the UN headquarters there, who traveled a lot.

You can join UNFCU by becoming a member of the United Nations Association of the USA (UNA-USA) for a $25 charge. Easy, and I did that online, expecting to get my member number immediately. Not so fast! It took over two weeks for them to snail mail me a member number.

Once I had that number, I could apply to join UNFCU. But not online. I had to download an application and snail mail it to them with copies of supporting documents (driver's license, utility bill, etc.). Then after they received it, I had to do more verification online of various things.

Then all sorts of other gyrations to arrange a transfer of funds from another bank to open my accounts at UNFCU. All told, it took well over a month from first contact to having an account established and funded.

During this process I kept receiving emails from UNFCU encouraging me to get one of their Visa cards. Well, yeah, that's why I joined after all. So I submitted an application for the card and it only took a week for them to ask for more documentation, which I duly submitted. Then, silence.

After another week went by, I asked the status, and got more silence. Repeatedly.

After still another week, I went to their website and looked up my Visa card application, which was simply labeled "Denied." No explanation. My credit score is well over 800, so I asked for an explanation. More silence, more emails, more silence.

Finally, three weeks after applying for the card, I got a response from them, on a huge form that was entirely blank except for the comment "Insufficient length of UNFCU membership."

At this point, I had no more interest in asking any more questions, so I closed my accounts and transferred the funds out. That took another two weeks since it also had to be done by snail mail. What a complete fiasco!

Eventually, there will be a way for us to get a true chip & PIN credit card, but if anyone is considering this route, I urge you to avoid UNFCU like the plague.

 

[gauss]

Wow - thanks for the info.

I was considering a similar play last year with that CU.

In addition to what you listed, I would have also had to lift "security freezes" currently in effect for me at the various credit reporting companies.

I would be PO'd if I were out the $25 plus all that time.

-gauss

p.s. you might want to add "Chip & Pin" to the thread title for those not already familiar with the unique UNFCU offerings.

 

[Alan]

p.s. you might want to add "Chip & Pin" to the thread title for those not already familiar with the unique UNFCU offerings.

Good idea, I'll do that.

 

[braumeister]

you might want to add "Chip & Pin" to the thread title for those not already familiar with the unique UNFCU offerings.

Thanks! Good suggestion.

 

[RobbieB]

I read that you have to be a member for 6 months.

 

[braumeister]

I read that you have to be a member for 6 months.

Which explains why they started sending me emails encouraging me to apply for a card after I had been a member for a few days.

 

[Walt34]

Which explains why they started sending me emails encouraging me to apply for a card after I had been a member for a few days.

Bear in mind that you're dealing with bureaucracy here. Why on earth would you expect it to make any sense?

 

[explanade]

I have a First Tech Fereral CU World MasterCard which has both offline and online PIN modes.

It hasn't failed me yet. Last time I used it was probably Belgian Rail.

You can apply online but you have to join some association for $8.

Their web site and app. Aren't the greatest. In fact you have to open a savings or checking a account and ach transfer money to it first before doing an internal transfer to the credit card account to pay it off.

So I pay a little earlier.

It earns some form of rewards but I mainly use it overseas so I haven't put much charges on it in the 12-18 months I've had it.

 

[Amethyst]

This is a completely irrelevant and impertinent comment, but I only read this thread because I kept sounding out "UNFCU" and had to see what it was about.

 

[braumeister]

I have a First Tech Fereral CU World MasterCard

Your description makes it sound a lot like the Andrews AFB credit union (https://www.andrewsfcu.org).

I belong to that, and their Visa card has worked well for me in Europe. Also not the snappiest website, but no problem in the couple of years I've had it.

 

[braumeister]

This is a completely irrelevant and impertinent comment, but I only read this thread because I kept sounding out "UNFCU" and had to see what it was about.

I had to use the initials because of the need to retain some semblance of decorum.

 

[explanade]

Your description makes it sound a lot like the Andrews AFB credit union (https://www.andrewsfcu.org).

I belong to that, and their Visa card has worked well for me in Europe. Also not the snappiest website, but no problem in the couple of years I've had it.

Well if you want something that works at kiosks.

The Barclays Arrival Plus MasterCard also worked well but I don't want to pay the $85 annual fee.

Plus MasterCard works better than US-issued Visa cards. For instance, on the London Underground, you can use MasterCards through ApplePay, so you don't need an Oyster card. But apparently Visa cards won't work.

 

[braumeister]

The Andrews card works fine at some kiosks. The main thing stopping it at others is simply that some European firms (DB comes first to mind) don't allow it for cards issued outside the EU.

 

[gauss]

One of the purported advantages of the UNFCU Chip & Pin card, according to my recollection of this, was that it was programmed to prefer PIN over signature wherever possible.

This is in sharp contrast to the majority of US issued cards that are designed to prefer signature over PIN (even in foreign countries) if the technology supports it.

These configurations are part of the EMV spec and are determined by the "issuing bank" for a particular card.

-gauss

 

[braumeister]

Which is precisely why I wanted one.
Oh well, this will all be sorted out in the next few years, I'm fairly sure.

 

[rodi]

I had no issues with my PenFed FCU chip and pin visa. I used it at unmanned kiosks in Amsterdam and Berlin. (It defaulted to signature everywhere else because there were cashiers there.)

 

[braumeister]

rodi, I've heard that from others, too. But my PFCU card is usually denied even at attended locations in Europe (often comes up "unreadable").

It has never failed to work perfectly in this country, so I don't understand it. And yes, I always give them my travel notice before I go so they know I'll be using it over there.

It may be because it's an older card? Expires in January, so I'll soon be getting a replacement, but still kind of weird.

 

[explanade]

I don't think US banks will ever prefer PIN over signature.

The momentum is with chip and signature and no bank wants to be among the first to issue PIN cards because they think that people can't remember PINs and that people will pull out the signature cards over the PIN cards when choosing which card to use.

 

[gauss]

I know this is a big request to the US banks, but how about letting the user decide the preference of PIN over signature - or perhaps bring to market a unique card ,marketed to world travelers, that preferences PIN over signature.

I can certainly appreciate the banks not wanting to be the first one to FORCE PINS on their customers, but as an option, that is an entirely different story.

Hey Wells Fargo - Opportunity Here!

-gauss

 

[MichaelB]

It may be because it's an older card? Expires in January, so I'll soon be getting a replacement, but still kind of weird.

Any way to test the replacement before going to Europe and finding out live if it works or not?

I know this is a big request to the US banks, but how about letting the user decide the preference of PIN over signature - or perhaps bring to market a unique card ,marketed to world travelers, that preferences PIN over signature.

Don't hold your breath. As long as signature is required the merchant keeps some of the liability, which is (my guess) one of the reasons the CC companies are reluctant to go to PIN-only.

Here's some background from Krebs On Security http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/10/chip-pin-vs-chip-signature/

 

[braumeister]

Any way to test the replacement before going to Europe and finding out live if it works or not?

Not important enough to worry about. I've gotten into the habit of using my Andrews Visa in Europe and it hasn't failed me yet. Even though I usually have to sign at the table in restaurants -- hardly a problem.

 

[audreyh1]

I had no issues with my PenFed FCU chip and pin visa. I used it at unmanned kiosks in Amsterdam and Berlin. (It defaulted to signature everywhere else because there were cashiers there.)

I ran into an "invalid card" error when I tried to use my PenFed VISA at the metro ticket machine at Schiphol airport (Amsterdam). Surprise! It read my BofA VISA just fine (clearly valid), but I didn't know what to do for the PIN. So I used my Fidelity debit card which it accepted with PIN. Fortunately I'd been sure get an updated debit card with chip right before my trip.

Supposedly the card works at Amsterdam Centraal just fine. But not at the airport? These Europe automated ticket machines are just so annoyingly finicky and unpredictable.

I actually didn't use the PenFed card with PIN after that, although I did use it for a couple of signature purchases. My debit card became the new workhorse for small purchases via ticket machines. It was very reliable, so I ate the 1% fee which I considered negligible on small purchases.

When you are standing in line, and there are people behind you, and the ticket machine already makes you go through numerous screens to get what you want, you don't feel like trying cards that didn't work before - you use the card that you think is most likely to work. So I never tested the PenFed VISA with chip and PIN in an SNCF ticket machine. I also had read many places that those machines often reject US issued credit cards anyway.

 

[explanade]

I don't think they take cards from outside of Europe, maybe not outside of neighboring countries, at those Schipol kiosks.

So I went into one of the nearby shops to buy some candy and get change in coins for the kiosks.

They worked fine for me at Centraal station in the kiosks under the ground in front of the station.

 

[audreyh1]

I don't think they take cards from outside of Europe, maybe not outside of neighboring countries, at those Schipol kiosks.

So I went into one of the nearby shops to buy some candy and get change in coins for the kiosks.

They worked fine for me at Centraal station in the kiosks under the ground in front of the station.

I knew a couple of people at Centraal had reported success with the card so I was shocked to have the card seen as invalid at the very same machines at Schiphol. It's so maddeningly inconsistent.

We needed to top up each of our cards (Chipkaart) to €20 so it would have taken a lot of coins. Thank goodness they accepted the debit card.