"Be happy in your work"

[Martha]

Me three. I just would rather not go to work. And I should be delighted with my job. I cut down the hours. I narrowed the focus of my work. I am paid well for the effort. But it just doesn't excite me.

[SteveR]

I used to be one of those MegaCorp managers that would go anywhere and do any job the company wanted me to do. It was the way up the ladder and I was gung ho on doing all I could. I moved several times and worked long hours to get up the ladder. For a while it all worked and I was fast tracked and changed jobs every two years through promotions. Then it all stopped as I reached the glass ceiling and politics played more of a role than experience and capability. I soon saw the light and decided to get off the ladder. A divorce has a way of waking one up to reality sometimes as does being a single parent.

My late wife was as much as work-a-holic as I was and we both worked for the same company in similar areas so we got to take work home and discuss it there too. She retired at 56 after 34 years with the same company. We was a loyal employee and did what she need to get the job done and was a role model to many many women in the company. Her just reward for this was 7 months of retirement before her sudden death. That is also an eye opener.

While I respect people that want to get ahead in their jobs I also see the emptiness in doing so. I used to think that way but no more. My second ER is on track and will be my last one. I know I can leave anytime I wish and so does my management and that makes things very open and less stressful for me. Goals are for long term employees.....and that is not me. I do what I need to get a decent raise and the rest is just BS. I am here for a check and health insurance and to do what I like in my job instead of what I have to do. As long as they let me do that I will stick around until my DW retires; otherwise I will just ER and be a house husband.

[Dry Socks]

I'm kind of new to the board... so, Hi all,

I used to be very excited to go to work, do my job, press forward, etc... Turns out it was all tied to the income. Since the pay dropped, I'm doing the same job for much less $'s. The hours are also much easier now.

Funny thing, work is now VERY! boring.

-D

[bosco]

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Originally Posted by Martha Me three. I just would rather not go to work. And I should be delighted with my job. I cut down the hours. I narrowed the focus of my work. I am paid well for the effort. But it just doesn't excite me.

Same with me. I only have to work about 6 months per year (I can "pretend-ER in the winter), and I am well-paid. The work is not bad, but it does mean I am away from home for those 6 months. Long hours, but what else am I going to do north of the Arctic circle. Well, there is caribou hunting. and drinking. But other than that?

Oh well, 15 more months of work and I am done, with a couple of ski-season passes thrown in for sanity to break it up....

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by davew894 I have noticed that the people who have this outlook tend to enjoy consumerism.* They get a lot out of driving an expensive car or buying a boat.* For these types, something new must be purchased to remain happy.* I say good for them as there are some people who can never achieve even ephemeral happiness.

I hate to poke a hole in your theory, but it doesn't hold for dad. This is the guy who was wondering if he overpaid too badly on the $7k retired police car he bought at auction. Yeah, he has a boat. It is a 23' Mako that is almost as old as I am (I think its a '75). It is docked at a municipal marina that he gets a slip at for ~$500 a year (yes, the waiting list is like 15 years long). Let's not paint with quite that broad a brush...

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Originally Posted by Nords I think Oprah would slice any ER author to ribbons.* Dave Ramsey got across her breakers (his fault) and she jumped right down his throat.

Nords,

I am interested in the Dave Ramsey- Oprah confrontation. Can you tell me what happened?

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat Nords, I am interested in the Dave Ramsey- Oprah confrontation. Can you tell me what happened?

All I know about Ramsey is what I've read from you guys. I've never heard his show or read his book(s?) and I don't know anything else about him. But from what I saw on Oprah I don't like him. If any of you guys are his fans then it's worth your time to find a video or a repeat of the show.

He was a guest for one of her "money makeover" episodes. It was the typical Oprah setup where a couple would drop emotional hand grenades on each other, she'd explore the situation and the relationships, and then Ramsey would swoop in to recommend the money solution. At the beginning, though, Ramsey wandered off his script and started talking about relationships. Oprah didn't let him get far. Here's the summary from the photo gallery:
"Desiree and Thomas have been married for four years, have an 18-month-old daughter, and are expecting twins. Desiree has brought Thomas to the show to set herself free-- she's been depressed and sleepless over what she's about to reveal to her husband. She's afraid it could destroy her marriage.
Thomas believes that they're financially doing pretty well for their family, and that they're living the "American dream" with a nice house, nice cars and what he believes to be stability. He's aware they have some debt. But he thinks it's about $40,000 worth of debt-- what he feels is an amount he and Desiree won't have too many problems tackling. "Financially, I think we're very stable," Thomas says. "I think we're going in the right direction. We started a good foundation for our family, and hopefully things will work out in the future."
Thomas says that Desiree keeps track of all their finances, as he believes she is better with attention to detail. Desiree, however, knows the real amount of debt they are in because of her bills and personal spending.
Desiree says with her student loans and interest on her ever-growing credit card balances, the couple faces a whopping $160,000 in debt.
I just want to first apologize," Desiree says. "I know you feel betrayed, and like you can't trust me. And I'm sorry. But I want you to know that telling you this will help me be the person that I need to be for you—the wife, the friend, the mother. Releasing this will help me be the person that I need to be."
"I was not aware that the debt was that enormous," Thomas says. "That's like a bowling ball being thrown at you a hundred miles an hour. … I have so many emotions. Hurt. Anger. That's a lot of money. … I have no problem taking care of my responsibility and my home financially. But to have that hanging over my head, that's a lot. And taking care of twins and a baby is no problem financially for me. But I don't even know where to begin to help."

Oprah got the couple through the tearful confession, helped them talk it over, calmed everyone down, and turned them over to Ramsey. He started off by telling the husband that he owed his wife an apology for dumping all the finances on her without backing her up with occasional "How's it going?" questions. Ramsey thought that his "showing an interest" in the finances would help the two of them communicate better about their money.

The audience started to murmur amongst themselves and Oprah jumped in with her "Oh, no no no no no no! Dave, you're totally wrong-- he doesn't owe anybody an apology!" Then she talked for a while about the wife's responsibility to speak up when she had problems, to talk about her feelings, blah blah blah.

Ramsey had this incredibly pissy look on his face during Oprah's monologue. His beady little eyes were squinting, his mouth was clamped into a prissy little line, and his jaw muscles were twitching. You could tell that he didn't like having "his" show interrupted one bit. I think that if it had been anyone else he would have jumped on them like Jerry Springer, but Ramsey realized that there wouldn't be any encores if he didn't do it Oprah's way. So he visibly choked it back (Oprah was smiling at him as she spoke, she knew exactly what he was thinking) and he picked things up again when she was done. The rest of the show went fine.

Between makeovers he was flogging his book, and when an author appears on Oprah it's customary for them to give everyone in the audience a free copy. However Ramsey apparently didn't feel generous enough to part with a hundred or so freebies for her audience. I don't know if this contributed to the onstage tension but it couldn't have helped.

I can only imagine what words were exchanged during the commercial breaks, but I doubt you'll see "Dr. Dave" premiering alongside "Dr. Phil" anytime soon.

Nords,

I've only heard Ramsey radio show on the internet. They don't broadcast it in Minneapolis. My take on him is that he has some good financial advice for getting out of debt. But, his "invest in a mutual fund and get 12% a year" line is bad advice!

Also, he is basically a Baptist Hell, fire and Brimstone minister that mandates that you believe the way he does or you're going to hell and you'll never be able to retire.

Also any use of a credit card is a surefire way to hell and ruin!

Listen to his radio program and tell me what you think. here is the link.http://www.daveramsey.com/radio/home/

[maddythebeagle]

I have listened to "Brother Dave" and also saw the Oprah appearance.* I agree that there was tension, but I am not sure I would drop it all on Dave. Oprah really should have known what she was getting with him (a conservative religious guy that wants to talk about keeping marriages together and not spending for consumerism) I think his point was no matter the money problem, it could be solved without divorce and "flogging" someone over stuff wasnt worth the effort. Apparently, Oprah disagreed. During the show, Oprah showed her shallowness by saying that she knew about families because she knew other people that had kids :* *I dont always agree with Dave since he doesnt talk about index funds with more emphasis, but his ideas on avoiding consumerism are in line with this board. I think he has a point with credit cards (although I use them) since many of the folks that call him are in deep debt.

[template]

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Originally Posted by SteveR ... It was the way up the ladder and I was gung ho on doing all I could. I moved several times and worked long hours to get up the ladder. ...

There's an old lament which tells about doing the hard work to climb up a ladder, only to find that it is leaning against the wrong wall.

[TargaDave]

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Originally Posted by TargaDave I am always inspired by people like Nord's friends or Brewers dad. The inspiring thing isn't the wealth or FI, it's more about the positive outlook you can sense that these people have. Helps to counteract all the megacorp cynics out there.

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Originally Posted by davew894 I have noticed that the people who have this outlook tend to enjoy consumerism. They get a lot out of driving an expensive car or buying a boat. For these types, something new must be purchased to remain happy. I say good for them as there are some people who can never achieve even ephemeral happiness. I, who many would call a megacorp cynic, enjoy 'toys' like this for a couple of weeks and then they just become my stuff, but the bills for them keep coming in long after the WOW factor has left.

I don't know if your referring to Brewers Dad, Nord's friends or me. Brewer already defended his dad and Nords friends don't sound like the big spender types. For myself having a positive outlook on life and work-career has absolutely nothing to do with consumerism (I LBYM like most here). Being an optimist has everything to do with controlling your own destiny while your in the working world, and as ESRBob said, as long as you have to work make it as rewarding as possible.

I see two types on this site. One type like Martha, Brewer, ESRBob, Laurence, TJ, T-Al, SG, etc who aren't cynical (maybe burnt out in some cases but not cynical) about their careers but enjoy the prospect and/or life of ER. Then there are the bitter corporate slaves counting the days to freedom or remembering only the megacorp A-holes. I feel sorry for this second group. I've said it in other posts, it's like a wasted first half of your life. This country offers more opportunity than any other place on the planet to control your career yet I am amazed at those who just "lock in" and then get bitter while providing endless reasons for not being able to change. I've worked for ridiculus megacorps and wild-eyed startups, run backhoe-loaders and made fancy semiconductor tools in my own businesses, but I have never let myself get trapped into a cynical outlook on my career.

I am always inspired by hard working optimists. To me people like Brewers dad are absolute heros. If it wasn't for them there would be no smallcorps/megacorps for all the passive cynics to work at, or much of a return for all those index funds.

Consumerism disease on the other hand shows no bias. It afflicts mega corp optimists and cynics alike as well as entreprenuers.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by TargaDave I see two types on this site.* One type like Martha, Brewer, ESRBob, Laurence, TJ, T-Al, SG, etc* who aren't cynical (maybe burnt out in some cases but not cynical) about their careers but enjoy the prospect and/or life of ER.* Then there are the bitter corporate slaves counting the days to freedom or remembering only the megacorp A-holes.* I feel sorry for this second group. I've said it in other posts, it's like a wasted first half of your life.* This country offers more opportunity than any other place on the planet to control your career yet I am amazed at those who just "lock in" and then get bitter while providing endless reasons for not being able to change.* I've worked for ridiculus megacorps and wild-eyed startups, run backhoe-loaders and made fancy semiconductor tools in my own businesses, but I have never let myself get trapped into a cynical outlook on my career.

Hmmm, I guess I have been in both places, personally. Its not like we are made just one way. I have ended up disgusted with my employer several times and moved on. Usually, I find a better situation elsewhere, but not always.

[Outtahere]

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Originally Posted by davew894 *'Wasting', as you called it, the next five years to achieve ER is the only way that I have to achieve it right now. *Leaving the position would most certainly delay my ER plans, potentially forever if I couldn't find a more 'inspiring' niche that paid enough to fund ER.

Exactly!!! I made the decision to work in the field I'm in because it gets me to where I want to be FIRE. As I mentioned earlier I don't dislike my work, it can be enjoyable but it's not the reason I get up in the morning.

C___

[TargaDave]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 Hmmm, I guess I have been in both places, personally. Its not like we are made just one way. I have ended up disgusted with my employer several times and moved on. Usually, I find a better situation elsewhere, but not always.

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Originally Posted by davew894 What else is there to do in a situation like this other than to sit and wait it out?

Everyone has to tough out lousy work environments. I've had my share but never to the point of entrenched cynicism. Just don't let it make you a bitter person. (If you've ever met the survivor of a long nasty divorce you'll know what I mean).

Regarding job skills, I've jump off the cliff into areas I had no training for more times than I care to remember. Unbelievably scary and exhilerating at the same time. I can still remember signing a deal with IBM to do a joint development program with my 5 man startup (that was another cliff in itself) and then turning to my partner saying "holy sh#t, we've never even been in a semiconductor fab before". ER is just another cliff.

Anyway Dave, I can understand your sticking it out. Find some other little mounds to jump off of in the mean time. [This summer I learned how to skim board at the beach with my 14 yr old. Did a least a dozen glorious face plants before I started to get the hang of it. The 8 yr old experts had a great laugh. Cliff jumping for me can take many different subtle forms but it always makes me feel alive and positive]

[Jarhead*]

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Originally Posted by davew894 Retiring in your 60's is too old.* I know too many people with too many aches and pains, too many pills to take, to little energy for doing anything fun and too cynical to enjoy the great things life has to offer.* Sometimes, their spouse is already dead by that time.* Good thing the statistical tables have 65 year old men dying less than a decade later.* It's WAY too late to enjoy the fruits of a lifetime of labor.* Retire early, even if you can't afford to, because when you reach 65-70 you'll be old and miserable anyway, regardless of what you saved during your 'working years.'

Although it's been a joy to talk to an "up-lifting", and "well-balanced" lad like you, I've got to sign off for now. (First leg of two day tournament in a couple hours). "Keep left arm straight, right arm tucked at impact, and grip it and rip it".

To borrow one of Nords quotes, "You have a nice life".

Jarhead

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by Jarhead* To borrow one of Nords quotes, "You have a nice life".

Just so you understand, Jarhead, that's my final signoff to a poster that I've added to my "Ignore" list.

Although in this case I believe that Dave has more than earned the privilege.* When I'm your age, Jarhead, I hope I'm not as old as Dave is now...

Have a good tournament!

[Helen]

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Originally Posted by davew894 . My company has 'golden handcuff' provisions which will cost me big bucks if I just up and leave to do something more inspiring. *My industry typically requires major amounts of overtime which my current employer does not. *Any other industry I might try, which I have no training in, would pay a small fraction of what I am earning now. *'Wasting', as you called it, the next five years to achieve ER is the only way that I have to achieve it right now. *Leaving the position would most certainly delay my ER plans, potentially forever if I couldn't find a more 'inspiring' niche that paid enough to fund ER. What else is there to do in a situation like this other than to sit and wait it out?

Dave,

I appreciate your post. I'm in the same situation. I don't hate my job, but I'd rather have my freedom. However, bailing from where I am would delay my retirement for years.

I've analyzed this - the bigger part of this question. Some people, like my partner, seem to be content no matter what. Others grow dissatisified and strive to make changes. I think I will be happier by retiring, so I am doing something about it.

I think the worst place to be is the victim mentality. The I hate my job, but I'm trapped and can't change. It takes a lot of effort to build the means to reach financial independence. I feel like I am taking control to reach that goal but it won't happen over night. Patience can prosper.

-helen