Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-18-2008, 12:10 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Midpack....welcome to your epiphany.

The 80-20 rule hold true. 20% of your people create 80% of your problems.

I was in management at various levels for over 30 years. One of the best things about being ER'ed is not having to deal with subordinates and backstabbing peers. It has been wonderful not having to do performance evaluations and merit budgets. The Corp. BS is gone as is the daily b*tching sessions by various under-achievers and whiners in the group.

You earn your salary when you manage people. It is a tough and thankless job but one that must be done to keep the organization functioning. Like Nords said, a lot of management is catching all the crap rained down by upper management before it hits your people. They never see this side of the your job so they have no appreciation for how much stuff you keep from landing on them. Good managers just do it and let it slide off their back while they get the job done without dumping it all on their people.

Hang in there and realize you have a very important job by keeping the inmates productive and as happy as you can let them be considering the circumstances. Just do the best you can for the good folks while keeping the other 20% on their toes. Document, document, document the 20% so someday you can convince HR they need to go.

Good luck.
__________________

__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-18-2008, 07:47 AM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,967
This thread has probably run it's course, but an observation that really makes me laugh. Some of my most active, senior whiners (many who have never worked anywhere else) who project 'this place sucks' and 'no one ever recognizes all we do for the company' --- are the first in line recommending theirs sons, daughters, brothers, etc. when we go outside to hire. I interview their relatives as a courtesy, but I'd never hire a whiner relative in a million years no matter what their credentials. And of course the existing whiners complain about 'how could we have hired so-and-so over my hard-working, genius son..." HELLO?
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 08:06 AM   #23
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
So...do you use your moderator gig to work off your frustrations?
Hmmm... not replying; will not respond; did not read that post; ignoring...
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 01:09 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
frayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 19th Hole
Posts: 2,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
Midpack....welcome to your epiphany.

The 80-20 rule hold true. 20% of your people create 80% of your problems.

I was in management at various levels for over 30 years. One of the best things about being ER'ed is not having to deal with subordinates and backstabbing peers. It has been wonderful not having to do performance evaluations and merit budgets. The Corp. BS is gone as is the daily b*tching sessions by various under-achievers and whiners in the group.

You earn your salary when you manage people. It is a tough and thankless job but one that must be done to keep the organization functioning. Like Nords said, a lot of management is catching all the crap rained down by upper management before it hits your people. They never see this side of the your job so they have no appreciation for how much stuff you keep from landing on them. Good managers just do it and let it slide off their back while they get the job done without dumping it all on their people.

Hang in there and realize you have a very important job by keeping the inmates productive and as happy as you can let them be considering the circumstances. Just do the best you can for the good folks while keeping the other 20% on their toes. Document, document, document the 20% so someday you can convince HR they need to go.

Good luck.
Exactly and well put.
__________________
frayne is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 01:20 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Not in management and will quit and go elsewhere if they put me in it. But I am dealing with a very different problem. I work in a small shop where there really is no room for deadweight, and we really don't have any. The issue is that there is one individual who has a humongous attitude problem and who has absolutely poisoned the atmosphere because of the way he acts and the constant stream of nasty comments projected at just about everyone. This person is plenty productive, but has largely cratered any attempts to build a more coherent team and really makes time at the office far more miserable than it needs to be. Management appears to know that something is wrong and has apparently started taking baby steps in addressing the problem, but based on the history of the firm it is highly unlikely that the situation will be resolved or that this person will be shown the door. I spend at least a small portion of each day trying not to plot the perfect murder, and no doubt my colleagues do the same.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 01:28 PM   #26
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
It was always amazing how that troublesome 2% fought to hang onto the jobs they spoke of hating, digging in their nails and refusing to look for something else, even within the company.
I have seen this one too. And the only conclusion that I can come to is the following. "Men (and women) of ability never fear loosing their jobs..." They always know they are marketable, can find work elsewhere, have contacts, etc. In general, those that are terrified of loosing their jobs have lesser, or no real skills, in comparision to their co-workers. These are people that reguard their jobs as just one elaborate con-job. As in "how long can I hang out here..... get paid, while not really doing, or knowing anything useful?"
At the same time, most of these people subsonciously really DO envy people that they know are their betters. They in fact do not want to succeed, or even to be happy. They would much rather everyone else fail like them, and be miserable with them. Why Because only that will help them bear the pain of the bad decisions they have made in life. By their twisted reasoning, "if everyone is just as miserable as me, then my mistakes are not so bad in comparision...." It is an interesting mindset to watch....
__________________
armor99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 02:30 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor99 View Post
Quote:
I have seen this one too. And the only conclusion that I can come to is the following. "Men (and women) of ability never fear loosing their jobs..." They always know they are marketable, can find work elsewhere, have contacts, etc. In general, those that are terrified of loosing their jobs have lesser, or no real skills, in comparision to their co-workers.
Wait until you reach 50. Somehow when almost every "poor performer" shuffled out in a layoff is 50 plus then you can be justified in feeling fear. Marketability in a slow job market goes to crap also no matter what your skills. I had to reinvent myself and it wasn't easy or quick.

Quote:
These are people that reguard their jobs as just one elaborate con-job. As in "how long can I hang out here..... get paid, while not really doing, or knowing anything useful?"
Hey, I resemble that remark.

Quote:
At the same time, most of these people subsonciously really DO envy people that they know are their betters. They in fact do not want to succeed, or even to be happy. They would much rather everyone else fail like them, and be miserable with them. Why Because only that will help them bear the pain of the bad decisions they have made in life. By their twisted reasoning, "if everyone is just as miserable as me, then my mistakes are not so bad in comparision...." It is an interesting mindset to watch...
I'm pretty happy doing very little work, in a job without stress and without the skill level of many of the more junior people I'm working with. Even though the more junior people probably all make less money than me, I wish them all the success in the world. In the next market downturn, I hope to be able to give my position to one of them.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 02:55 PM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Not in management and will quit and go elsewhere if they put me in it. But I am dealing with a very different problem. I work in a small shop where there really is no room for deadweight, and we really don't have any. The issue is that there is one individual who has a humongous attitude problem and who has absolutely poisoned the atmosphere because of the way he acts and the constant stream of nasty comments projected at just about everyone. This person is plenty productive, but has largely cratered any attempts to build a more coherent team and really makes time at the office far more miserable than it needs to be. Management appears to know that something is wrong and has apparently started taking baby steps in addressing the problem, but based on the history of the firm it is highly unlikely that the situation will be resolved or that this person will be shown the door. I spend at least a small portion of each day trying not to plot the perfect murder, and no doubt my colleagues do the same.
I'm positive it doesn't apply to you, but in my experience management is almost (if not) alone in dealing with toxic employees. Co-workers usually don't oppose the bad actors (which is taken as tacit acceptance) and often even encourage it in the interest of 'going along to get along.' So when management confronts the bad actor, the toxic employee turns to his co-workers and gets support/sympathy, and confirms to the bad actor that 'he/she is right!'

I've been in management most of my career, I knew exactly what I was getting into, and I fully accept responsibility (for the pay that goes with it) to deal with employees with bad attitudes. But imagine how much easier it would be for all concerned, and how much better the workplace could be, if management wasn't the Lone Ranger? I don't expect or want co-workers to pick a fight, but it wouldn't hurt if they'd at least not encourage bad behavior. Just refusing to listen to it without reacting would help. It wouldn't take that much if the toxic employee was getting the same message from all. The irony is, most of the co-workers who are fed up with it come to me in private and plead with me to do something, all while passively/actively supporting Mr./Ms. Toxic.

Just imagine...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 60% equity funds / 35% bond funds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 02:59 PM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
I'm positive it doesn't apply to you, but in my experience management is almost (if not) alone in dealing with toxic employees. Co-workers usually don't oppose the bad actors (which is taken as tacit acceptance) and often even encourage it in the interest of 'going along to get along.' So when management confronts the bad actor, the toxic employee turns to his co-workers and gets support/sympathy, and confirms to the bad actor that 'he/she is right!'

I've been in management most of my career, I knew exactly what I was getting into, and I fully accept responsibility (for the pay that goes with it) to deal with employees with bad attitudes. But imagine how much easier it would be for all concerned, and how much better the workplace could be, if management wasn't the Lone Ranger? I don't expect or want co-workers to pick a fight, but it wouldn't hurt if they'd at least not encourage bad behavior. Just refusing to listen to it without reacting would help. It wouldn't take that much if the toxic employee was getting the same message from all. The irony is, most of the co-workers who are fed up with it come to me in private and plead with me to do something, all while passively/actively supporting Mr./Ms. Toxic.

Just imagine...
At least in this case, I think all of us do not encourage or support the bad actor. Some have said something to management, but nobody eggs him on or encourages him. As for myself, I have gone to other management teams in other situations and I will never, repeat, NEVER do so ever again. There is very little upside and lots and lots of downside. So I am in the position of waiting for one of: management figuring out that they need to deal with this; me getting sick of the BS and leaving; one of my coworkers showing up with a shotgun loaded with slugs.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 03:00 PM   #30
Moderator Emeritus
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pine Island, Florida
Posts: 6,868
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor99 View Post
I have seen this one too. And the only conclusion that I can come to is the following. "Men (and women) of ability never fear loosing their jobs..." They always know they are marketable, can find work elsewhere, have contacts, etc. In general, those that are terrified of loosing their jobs have lesser, or no real skills, in comparision to their co-workers. These are people that reguard their jobs as just one elaborate con-job. As in "how long can I hang out here..... get paid, while not really doing, or knowing anything useful?"
At the same time, most of these people subsonciously really DO envy people that they know are their betters. They in fact do not want to succeed, or even to be happy. They would much rather everyone else fail like them, and be miserable with them. Why Because only that will help them bear the pain of the bad decisions they have made in life. By their twisted reasoning, "if everyone is just as miserable as me, then my mistakes are not so bad in comparision...." It is an interesting mindset to watch....
One thing that has always amazed me is how much time and effort people will expend in being miserable, and in making others miserable.
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 03:03 PM   #31
Administrator
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
One thing that has always amazed me is how much time and effort people will expend in being miserable, and in making others miserable.
Agreed. It has been my experience that people are generally about as happy as they decide to be. Why some appear deliberately to choose unhappiness is a mystery.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 03:09 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Back in my management days, I would get the problem children moved to my area. I had a reputation for "rehabilitating" a reasonable percentage and not putting up with non-performers for long. I was always very specific on job expectations and held very regular meetings with employees and very, very regular meetings with the screw ups.

I never really worried about "bad attitudes" since I usually had one when I was in my management positions. I just tried to coach them into keeping their mouth shut and play the game. I usually would get a big grin when I'd tell them you can think your boss is a big jerk even if you smile at him.

__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 03:17 PM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,304
I actually enjoyed running parts of the business and leading teams.
What I hated was the personnel (performance reviews, paperwork, corporate mandates) side of it, not dealing with people, just all of the B.S. buearacracy sh*t. I enjoyed developing the strategy, setting the direction, getting things organized and accomplished through the collective organization. I was told I was good at getting sh*t done.
I got a kick out of moving high performers to their next opportunities. Very fullfilling.
__________________

__________________
Life is GREAT!
megacorp-firee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Becoming less wasteful/more socially responsible DangerMouse Other topics 62 05-02-2008 10:55 PM
Green / Socially Responsible Mutual Fund Peaceful_Warrior Stock Picking and Market Strategy 10 09-13-2007 03:57 PM
Is Clinton Responsible? Eagle43 Other topics 34 09-12-2006 04:38 PM
Trade Offs & "Being Responsible' brewer12345 Young Dreamers 42 01-11-2006 11:53 AM
Partner not as financially responsible Sillysal Young Dreamers 39 07-02-2005 03:11 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:29 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.