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Old 03-02-2012, 04:53 PM   #41
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So what's the URL?
www.donheff.com, of course.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:56 PM   #42
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www.donheff.com, of course.
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:48 PM   #43
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I'm a big fan of folks being self educated when it comes to finances. I would not give them a book, but I'd recommend that they read both of the Boglehead books and anything that Bogle has written. They all can be checked out of the public library for free. Most will not take the time to do so.

LBYM.
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no reward for helping with investing
Old 03-02-2012, 08:08 PM   #44
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no reward for helping with investing

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Originally Posted by 52andout View Post

and don't laugh about the lottery numbers. I know quite a few people whose plan is to win the lottery to retire.
+1

Winning a lottery is a poor man's dream.

I am helping my DD with their 401k & IRAs, but I see how nervous she gets when I send her a chart, that is not going UP. Her husband does not want to look. Basically, there is no reward for helping with investing, especially a friend or neighbor. No matter what you say, it will come back as: You told me to buy XYZ and now I lost BIG.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:21 PM   #45
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So even after you showed her where she would have been if she had stayed in the single high ER fund compared to what you recommended she was still upset?
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Unfortunately, yes.
MIL simply expected you to be good, really really good, like the TV ad some brokerage house ran a while back (or perhaps they are still running it).

It said "The market goes up, you make money. The market goes down, you make money." Yep, that's what stock shorting is for, isn't it?

I once advised a brother-in-law to diversify from putting all his 401k contribution into his company stock. Unknown to me, another BIL of his had advised him to do exactly that, because he believed that company was hot!

Nope, no more! Nowadays, I only talk stocks with friends who understand the risk, and know how "things work".
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:27 PM   #46
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Before I retired, I found that 100% of co-workers asking for financial advice wanted a stock tip that would act as a "magic bullet", allowing them to retire without making much effort. They did not want to hear anything about LBYM, and would shut off their ears and mind if cutting back on spending was suggested.

So, I usually just pushed the TSP and contributing the max if possible. They probably would have passed out had I mentioned that contributing to the TSP wasn't all they might have to do.
Uncle: Did you make a killing in the stock market?
Brother: I wish I could be rich (like you). Can you show me?
"Friend": How did you do this? Selling drugs?

I fear that most don't understand the multiple pronged effort involving earnings, investing and LBYM. They want a silver bullet story in less than 3 minutes. Interesting that the "Friend" now gets it. Bought a retirement home that he rents out and is planning for the day. There is hope. People sometimes learn from our examples.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:24 PM   #47
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I used to offer friends/coworkers advice when asked. But they always asked for more. It was not only financial - it was everything that they needed advice on that they thought I knew something about. It got to the point where I didn't want to give advice anymore. Now I act confused when they question me, and the requests have stopped.
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In addition to my earlier response, my experience was like W2R's. Sadly they didn't want to learn anything, they just wanted a silver bullet, 'what's the trick.'
No good deed goes unpunished...
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Uncle: Did you make a killing in the stock market?
Brother: I wish I could be rich (like you). Can you show me?
"Friend": How did you do this? Selling drugs?
I fear that most don't understand the multiple pronged effort involving earnings, investing and LBYM. They want a silver bullet story in less than 3 minutes.
You guys raise an interesting point.

10 years and six months ago, when I was still in uniform (with a military haircut, freshly shaved, neatly groomed, and dressed up like a recruiting poster) everyone wanted to hear my advice on how my brilliant investing got us to ER.

Today, though, they look at how I'm groomed & dressed and they're afraid that I'm going to ask them for money.

"Hey, c'mon, I put a fresh scrunchie in my ponytail last week!!"

So this problem will rapidly disappear after your retirement farewell party.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:44 AM   #48
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When I have been asked for advice, I do give it. But as far as I know it is never taken. What the people asking really want is either a secret that will magically make money with little effort, a hot stock tip, a way to safely withdraw 10% or more of a portfolio, or validation for whatever crazy idea they found that they are going to do anyway whatever I tell them. I hope that maybe they will think about what I say and it might influence them slightly in the future, but my experience says that is unlikely.

I have a friend who is a very successful investor and he tells me similar stories about being approached. In a few rare cases, family members prevailed upon him to actually invest on their behalf - and he has all the professional licenses to take them as "clients" albeit non-paying ones. These are the only people who do what he advises, and only because he's actually doing it for them. So then he does the work, but still gets the complaints when they hear about some hot new stock and their account didn't beat those returns.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #49
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Oops! Internet Explorer could not find www.donheff.com
I could not resist...
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:16 AM   #50
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I would stay away from giving financial advice. Like others above have mentioned, I like the idea of recommending a book (or this website http://www.early-retirement.org/)
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Should I offer to help, or smile politely and pretend that I haven't noticed the veiled suggestions?
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:32 AM   #51
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I have been asked for advice a number of times, mostly on how to take the company pension or 401k. But as far as I know no one has taken any of my advice. Most people do not have enough to support their spend rate so they don't want to face up to that. Some have their self identity wrapped up in their job and can't handle just being another old man in line at Wal Mart. No one to boss around. No meetings to call.
Very few people have thought it out. When they ask for advice it's usually for a shortcut. When they find out it took 30 years of discipline they quickly lose interest.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:58 AM   #52
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Looking back,when I tell these people how much OT I worked in my former position,hours,weekends etc. Also about living below my means,the conversation tends to end their.As many already mentioned,they want an abracadabra answer.
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:10 AM   #53
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Free advice is worth exactly that. You will not be rewarded for your advice, but will always shoulder the blame.

A co-worker asked me about annuities, since she had been to a financial dinner with a friend. She could see through the talk, but asked me about it. I told her my in-laws have a few annuities through USAA, and encouraged her to study more about the subject. Some day it might make sense, but she shouldn't make any moves based on a dinner.

Usually when I am asked about money I turn the conversation to my car (10 years old) and theirs (usually a late model leased Accura or Lexus.) That usually ensures an early end to the conversation.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:02 AM   #54
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I gave a good friend some investing advice in late 2003 when he had some spare cash laying around (and a running surplus from his job income) and wanted to gt a better rate of return than the bank was giving him without taking on a huge amount of added risk. He has an individual (Roth) IRA and a 457 plan through his employer which is the local government. He also owns some stocks through a broker friend of his.

I suggested he invest in the intermediate-term muni bond fund I had been invested in since 1994. His broker repeatedly told him he was crazy and told him to get out of the fund. (I think his broker just wanted him to sell and invest more with him.) Anyway, after years of mostly tax-free dividends, he just bought an apartment in December and sold off a good amount of that fund's holdings, at a nice profit, and is very glad he took my advice not only to invest with the fund but to stay in it the whole time over the objections of his broker friend. (I prepare his tax returns so I get to show him every year how little these dividends are taxes.) When he told his broker friend about how well he did, the broker friend dismissed it as pure luck.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:40 PM   #55
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I would stay away from giving financial advice. Like others above have mentioned, I like the idea of recommending a book (or this website http://www.early-retirement.org/)
Maybe I should have, but I've always been very careful about recommending this site to the people who asked for my advice while I was working. As I stated earlier, at least 90% were just looking for a shortcut/silver bullet, and I didn't see any point in having them look for same here. YMMV

However, I have encouraged a few people to visit here who were more LBYM inclined with savings to work with.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:12 PM   #56
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When they ask at work, I stay pretty vague. Mainly say lbym, etc. I know, (and they know, but won't admit it), that they won't bite the bullet enough to follow through. I think most people put up with working jobs all their lives because they can't control their lifestyle and spending...instead of doing something about it. Like smoking and knowing it is bad for you, but you still smoke. I think if they really wanted to learn, they would take the bull by the horns and not have to ask. I remember the days of going to the library to study the Morningstar updates on funds, etc. Remember those days? Now, you have the internet and it's all around you. There's no excuse.

I really DO try and help out my friends. The people I work with are a different grouping... acquaintances. Those people I keep at arm's length and don't give much advise, even when asked.

I keep my real life separate from my work life. I guess if a person were in one of those dream jobs...like astronaut...work and real life would be the same. But, most of us do not live a dream job. So, that's why most of us retire early so we can have a whole life instead of a partitioned life.

Sorry for getting off subject a little bit...
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:31 PM   #57
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Just tell them about this Forum and the advise that they can get here from so many people.

You have helped them, but are not liable for any recommendations. This sounds like what you want to accomplish.
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