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Old 09-25-2008, 09:49 PM   #21
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They will have built and passed the biggest, most expensive, most gorged and bloated expenditure of taxpayer money ever!

And, the people are mad about it.
There in lies the problem. The politicians up for reelection are scared sh*tless.
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:47 PM   #22
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The Democrats don't need the Republicans. They have enough votes to pass the bailout on their own, and Bush will sign it.
While channel surfing the various cable news and financial networks during the day today, I heard several hosts/analysts say that same thing. That the Dem have the votes to pass it but don't want to do so without significant support from the GOP reps.

In fact, thinking about it I recall Chuck Schumer was being interviewed mid-afternoon and he emphasized that the Dems don't want to pass a package without significant GOP votes making it clearly bipartisan.

Wonder why? The Dems are generous and want to share the credit? The Dems are CYA and don't want to shoulder all the blame if the package doesn't work? Dunno.......

Edit: from the WSJ article ha posted above:

Quote:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a California Democrat, earlier in the week said she wouldn't push the bill without Republican support.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:14 PM   #23
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While channel surfing the various cable news and financial networks during the day today, I heard several hosts/analysts say that same thing.
And you'll recall Harry Reid had claimed he was told that McCain would support it. McCain denied it, but I believe Reid wants very much to have McCain on board before signing anything.

I don't know if McCain is actually holding things up. This must infuriate Reid and Pelosi. They dislike McCain deeply, (Reid has made it personal) but are too afraid to move ahead without his cover. If they don't move ahead, and the markets crump--they are to blame. If they do move ahead and the Amrican public rebels against the costs and the giveaways of this package, their party will be punshed at the ballot box. They are in a bad spot, and (hopefully) McCain will use his available leverage to improve the bill (reducing taxpayer liabilities as much as possible and keeping the bill focused on the problem). If so, he'll be able to rightfully hold this out as an improvement he's responsible for.

Gee, I wonder if this really IS important enough to delay that li'l ol' debate by a couple of days. Obama says no. McCain is looking smarter and smarter. Where did Obama spend the night? Oh, in Washington. Yep--he blinked.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:33 PM   #24
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I don't know if McCain is actually holding things up. This must infuriate Reid and Pelosi. They dislike McCain deeply, (Reid has made it personal) but are too afraid to move ahead without his cover. If they don't move ahead, and the markets crump--they are to blame. If they do move ahead and the Amrican public rebels against the costs and the giveaways of this package, their party will be punshed at the ballot box. They are in a bad spot, and (hopefully) McCain will use his available leverage to improve the bill (reducing taxpayer liabilities as much as possible and keeping the bill focused on the problem). If so, he'll be able to rightfully hold this out as an improvement he's responsible for.
It's the world's most expensive game of chicken...
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:52 PM   #25
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Wonder why? The Dems are generous and want to share the credit? The Dems are CYA and don't want to shoulder all the blame if the package doesn't work? Dunno.......
They want to share the blame on this hastily created plan.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:25 AM   #26
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Ditto on the game of chicken. Good one.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:29 AM   #27
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Wait I have to go check the Vegas Line on this. Personally, at this point 8:28 am today I think the odds are 60/40 NO. But there are so many necks on the block now I am sure "they" will come up with something for "us".
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:08 PM   #28
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Gee, I wonder if this really IS important enough to delay that li'l ol' debate by a couple of days. Obama says no. McCain is looking smarter and smarter. Where did Obama spend the night? Oh, in Washington. Yep--he blinked.
Well, it now looks like McCain will do the debate even though there's no deal on the bailout-so HE blinked, too. Dang!
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:12 PM   #29
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My guess is that they are so intransigent on a compromise now that come Sunday afternoon, just before Asian markets open, they'll be forced to quickly adopt something -- anything -- that will be even worse than what's out there now.

As you can see, my faith in Washington is infinite.
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:21 PM   #30
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It's probably just me, but I wonder if the slightly more hasty than usual seizure of W.M. was to hold the administration's feet to a hotter fire?
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:23 PM   #31
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It's probably just me, but I wonder if the slightly more hasty than usual seizure of W.M. was to hold the administration's feet to a hotter fire?
How so? If the feds seized the assets, it would have been led by an executive agency, not a legislative one. If anything, it would have been hastily done at the urging of the administration to put a sense of urgency on Congress.
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Harry Reid says yesterday's arrival of candidates hurt process.
Old 09-26-2008, 12:44 PM   #32
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Harry Reid says yesterday's arrival of candidates hurt process.

Mr. Reid, standing next to Senator Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, the chairman of the Senate banking committee, said that negotiations had been headed toward a successful conclusion Thursday evening, but that the arrival of the presidential candidates, as well as the failure of House Republican leaders to participate in some discussions, helped to derail them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/business/27reax.html
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:52 PM   #33
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I hate politics. When I saw Paulsen on the Sunday morning talking heads shows and heard him being second-guessed, I could tell that there was not way a bailout was going to happen without a lot of special interests and good old fashioned pontificating and speechifying first. This could have been a done deal by now. I'm voting against all the incumbents from now on.
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:04 PM   #34
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Mr. Reid, standing next to Senator Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, the chairman of the Senate banking committee, said that negotiations had been headed toward a successful conclusion Thursday evening, but that the arrival of the presidential candidates, as well as the failure of House Republican leaders to participate in some discussions, helped to derail them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/business/27reax.html
It does look that way. But I wonder....... I haven't heard the GOP Congressional folks agree that negotiations had been headed toward a successful conclusion. The Dems say that the GOP Congressional folks were going along with it. But I haven't heard the GOP folks themselves say that. Is the actuality that the Dems were interpreting silence as support? Or did the Dems think that Paulson was speaking for the Congressional Republicans, which we can see now he isn't? Were the Republicans, feeling left out of the action and having zero input, just sitting back and waiting to vote "no?" Then, with the candidates back in town, they opened up and said that they didn't feel the process had been inclusive and still wanted to have input? Dunno. But it is strange that the Republican congresscritters themselves have never (that I've heard or seen) said that they were supporting the bill the Dems had put together.

At this stage, if the Dems feel confident in the bill as it stands with their modifications, they should probably go ahead and pass it since they seem to have the votes. Otherwise, they should give the Republicans some input.

If I'm reading this wrong and there is Republican input to the modified bill from the Republican minority in Congress, what is it? Everything seemed to be just the Dem modifications.

Edited: Oh yeah.... one other thought. As far as Obama and McCain being involved, I remind myself that they are senators as well as presidential candidates. It's not like two presidential candidates who are not part of Congress (say, two govenors running for pres.) showing up to inject their two cents. Two much involvement? Maybe. But I'd be just as concerned if they were ignoring the situation and had no involvement at all.
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:13 PM   #35
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At this stage, if the Dems feel confident in the bill as it stands with their modifications, they should probably go ahead and pass it since they seem to have the votes. Otherwise, they should give the Republicans some input.

If I'm reading this wrong and there is Republican input to the modified bill from the Republican minority in Congress, what is it? Everything seemed to be just the Dem modifications.
The thing is this: They seem to indicate that the problem is specifically with Republicans in the House.

If they can get cooperation from about 10 GOP senators AND get the assurances that the president would sign it, they don't need House Republicans for anything: it passes the House, it passes the Senate with a filibuster-proof majority, and the president signs it. Done.

So there has more to it than just "House Republicans."
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:14 PM   #36
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Oh the Democrats DO NOT want to pass this thing without a LOT of Republican votes as they need POLITICAL COVER in case this thing does not work (which IMHO it is not going to work - of course I am not too clear on WTH the actual objective is).
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:17 PM   #37
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When I saw Paulsen on the Sunday morning talking heads shows and heard him being second-guessed, I could tell that there was not way a bailout was going to happen without a lot of special interests and good old fashioned pontificating and speechifying first. This could have been a done deal by now. I'm voting against all the incumbents from now on.
That's my normal procedure. Chicago Dems are an exception, of course. I'm in the suburbs now and can't actually vote for them anymore () but ya still gotta cheer for 'em!
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:20 PM   #38
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And you'll recall Harry Reid had claimed he was told that McCain would support it. McCain denied it, but I believe Reid wants very much to have McCain on board before signing anything.

I don't know if McCain is actually holding things up. This must infuriate Reid and Pelosi. They dislike McCain deeply, (Reid has made it personal) but are too afraid to move ahead without his cover. If they don't move ahead, and the markets crump--they are to blame. If they do move ahead and the Amrican public rebels against the costs and the giveaways of this package, their party will be punshed at the ballot box. They are in a bad spot, and (hopefully) McCain will use his available leverage to improve the bill (reducing taxpayer liabilities as much as possible and keeping the bill focused on the problem). If so, he'll be able to rightfully hold this out as an improvement he's responsible for.

Gee, I wonder if this really IS important enough to delay that li'l ol' debate by a couple of days. Obama says no. McCain is looking smarter and smarter. Where did Obama spend the night? Oh, in Washington. Yep--he blinked.
Hold on, come on now. The Republican administration tells congress, "PASS OUR PLAN NOW! OR THERE WILL BE DEATH!" and demand $700 billion with no strings attached. Currently the plan is to only allow $350 billion at first. Now that something is close to being hammered out, the congressional republicans are crying about it, and judging from your post above, it's obvious the game plan is to somehow blame this mess all on democrats. It's genius political maneuvering on the GOP's part, but it is pure politics. The Dem leadership is smart to demand bipartisan support for this bill. Right now if it does work, the Republicans can claim credit for submitting/crafting the initial plan, and if it blows up, they can throw the dems under the bus. McCain's grandstanding and pretend halt of the campaign (Commercials still running! Still making political statements on the national news! Still releasing press releases blamestorming!) is really annoying me. This is not the McCain I donated money to. And saying, "they started it" or "they do it too!" is hardly an effective defense.

Now McCain is going, he read the polls saying he should debate and did a U-turn, without an agreement in place. Who blinked?
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:24 PM   #39
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Oh the Democrats DO NOT want to pass this thing without a LOT of Republican votes as they need POLITICAL COVER in case this thing does not work (which IMHO it is not going to work - of course I am not too clear on WTH the actual objective is).
Repubs 1, Dems 0 on the political maneuvering. The plan was crafted by a Republican administration, it was a blank check for $700 billion. The house dems input reduced the initial cost and put in some safeguards. But the resistance from congressional republicans allows them to go to their home district and scream about "bloated dem budget busters!" and win in November. Dems are scrambling to figure out how they got checked so bad by this. They are in a complete no win situation.
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:27 PM   #40
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It's genius political maneuvering on the GOP's part, but it is pure politics. The Dem leadership is smart to demand bipartisan support for this bill. Right now if it does work, the Republicans can claim credit for submitting/crafting the initial plan, and if it blows up, they can throw the dems under the bus.
Maybe, maybe not. But going back to what I said before, the Democrats have to do better than blame "House Republicans" because if everyone else is on board, House Republicans are impotent. The bill passes the House without a single GOP vote, and if enough Senate Republicans are on board, it passes without filibuster. And if the president is on board, he signs it.

If Democrats refuse to take it to a vote without any House GOP support, then they too are playing politics since they could pass it without a single Republican vote in the House -- they're more afraid of being blamed if it blows up than fixing it. Not saying the Republicans are behaving any better, but there is certainly enough partisan positioning from both sides to go around.

"House Republicans" alone can't stop this. Now if they don't have enough Republican support in the Senate to block a filibuster, that's another story. For the Democrats, passing it without bipartisan support would be a "profile in courage."
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