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Old 10-12-2014, 11:32 PM   #21
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Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the cash was explained by the fact that the dispensaries are having trouble opening bank accounts, not because they are trying to launder money?
+1 That's the assumption I made.

Many companies involved in the marijuana trade are finding that most financial institutions are hesitant to do business with them, since current federal law makes it a crime to deal marijuana. By association, a financial institution knowingly holding a bank account for them could open up a heap of liability.

Ever hear of the laws that permit seizure of ALL assets by law enforcement which could be involved either directly or indirectly in the drug trade? Granted, it would require the feds to actually enforce it - and it would make for a very interesting standoff between the FDIC and the DEA....but with the laws clearly on the books, the banks aren't going to stick their neck out for an amount of money that doesn't even amount to a rounding error of a rounding error of their total deposits or income.
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:08 AM   #22
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Subsidies, I thought, were for people that could not afford health care. Why not go all the way, Food stamps, public housing, there are lots of things designed for those less fortunate. IMHO, subsidies were not designed to make it easier for people could stop working.
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:10 AM   #23
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I live in Washington State. Recently, the state legalized cannabis product sale.

I was listening to a radio-broadcast of testimony by a banking executive to the liquor control board last week. She testified that the DOJ has issued guidelines which, if adhered to, reduce the likelihood of the DOJ taking the bank to court. There were so many guidelines, I was unable to keep track of the count, let alone the specific details.

Her bank has branches in other states, which caused the bank to develop policies to assure cannabis funds didn't cross state lines. The bank was able to contract with an armored car service. The bank requires each store nominate one or two individuals that will make deposits into the commercial accounts in person. The bank wants the tellers and branch managers to personally know these individuals, in promotion of the DOJ guidelines.

She testified that the bank's board hired risk analysts and spoke in person to local DOJ representatives with a goal of reducing the probability of criminal prosecution around serving cannabis retailers.

Bottom line: banks in Washington State have been able to serve cannabis retailers, but it's a really slippery slope.

As an aside, the FDIC has declined requests from cannabis retailers' bankers to process point of sale transactions using credit cards.

The local stores apparently have a cash machine in their physical retail space. Local news reports indicate that cannabis product retail employees tell customers that the FDIC is the reason they can't swipe their credit/debit cards at the points of sale.

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Old 10-13-2014, 09:58 AM   #24
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Subsidies, I thought, were for people that could not afford health care. Why not go all the way, Food stamps, public housing, there are lots of things designed for those less fortunate. IMHO, subsidies were not designed to make it easier for people could stop working.
W2 employees usually get subsidies through their employers for health care. Why should contractors, the self employed or pre-65 pensioners not be entitled to affordable health care as well? Pre ACA, our health care premiums went from $300 a month through DH's work to $2,300 a month with a COBRA conversion plan.

Why have employers be the middleman for health care? Should we have employers be the middlemen for car insurance, too? Ooops lost your job - now you can't get car insurance and drive either, too bad for you. Are there any other developed countries where affordable health care is tied to having a full time W2 job?
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:39 AM   #25
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Subsidies, I thought, were for people that could not afford health care. Why not go all the way, Food stamps, public housing, there are lots of things designed for those less fortunate. IMHO, subsidies were not designed to make it easier for people could stop working.
Good point. Next thing you know billionaire sports team owners will want cities to subsidize their stadiums for them. Then the NFL will be want to be tax exempt. Companies could shield billions in profits by setting up a small office in Ireland and running all their profits through it.

It is a slippery slope
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:08 PM   #26
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If you want to look at every subsidy from the government to justify living of the public dole, that's fine with me. Just call it for what it is.

FIRE,for me, means one saved, planned and accomplished financial independence that then allowed one to retire early. If it means for you, that with government subsidies you can quit working, OK.

But lets be clear about it, those that find ways to minimize their current income so as to increase a government subsidy are living off the hard work of others. For me that is no different than the welfare recipient that is more than capable of working but chooses to live off the system instead.

If you want to turn this into weather other government subsidies should be abolished, you will find me in the corner of abolishing most, if not all. I have never thought the tax system should be used for social engineering of to allow your and my elected official stay to in office.
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:15 PM   #27
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If you want to look at every subsidy from the government to justify living of the public dole, that's fine with me. Just call it for what it is. .............
Everyone that has less money than me is just too lazy to work hard like I did. Everyone that has more money than me either stole it or inherited it (as if there is a difference).
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:21 PM   #28
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Now there's a point we can agree on
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:24 PM   #29
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Marijuana business, where legal.

All transactions are cash, in those businesses you can't even open a bank account to put it in. You run cash.

I have a friend who invested in one, he gets a FedEx package every month with his return on investment.

I am not sure how you go about investing in one.
If you get money, you owe taxes on it...all cash or not.

So this would not qualify as a good option for the OP unless both the investor and the dispensary decide to evade federal tax law.

In other words, being all cash simply makes it easier to break the law without getting caught, but you'd still be breaking the law if you didn't report it.
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:40 PM   #30
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Subsidies, I thought, were for people that could not afford health care. Why not go all the way, Food stamps, public housing, there are lots of things designed for those less fortunate. IMHO, subsidies were not designed to make it easier for people could stop working.
Actually they were fully aware that some would retire early due to the law. But the writers of the law said that the number that could do this was very small, and in the grand scheme of things it was much better to have an income only test due to simplicity and uniform application, instead of a complex asset/income test, which would be unduly complex, and unwieldy.

So they made a decision that the few that "get over" was worth it.
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:02 PM   #31
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There was a time in this country where taking charity/welfare was looked down on. Now people are actually proud they are able to, and ask others to help them qualify. For me, that is just wrong. It is because 'the government' is doing it, and not your next door neighbor. If the same people had to go next door and ask for someone to subsidise their health care, most would never do it. And before the onslaught of 'well evil corporations do it' comes, it makes it no better. When there largess is exposed most will shrink into the woodwork, and some have even refused. Yet, not often enough. As stated in a 1945 Columbia Law Review article "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". It was true then and is now. Somebody pays.

Don't tax you, Don't tax me, tax the guy behind the tree!
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:15 PM   #32
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I view it as "take care of each other".
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:17 PM   #33
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If you have cash income, you need to report the income. Has nothing to do with laundering money.
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:09 PM   #34
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Best no-income investments?

I'll go along with abolishing most government subsidizes assuming its fair and equitable. Bit, you might have problems getting Boeing and Tesla, to name a few others, to go along with the idea.

In the case of the ACA, I think there was already a problem with people not being able to retire or being locked into a job because of medical insurance issues. I know people who get little or no subsidy but were able to retire before 65 because the pre-existing condition exclusions are now gone. Overall, I think that is good for the economy and the younger workers in particular.
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Old 10-14-2014, 06:30 AM   #35
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There was a time in this country where taking charity/welfare was looked down on. Now people are actually proud they are able to, and ask others to help them qualify.
A lot has changed culturally in this country over the decades. "Ask not what your country can do for you" has morphed into "where's mine?" and one where, after seeing handout after handout, you start to wonder why you're not getting in line yourself.

As such, I see no problem with the ACA subsidies. IIRC they were consciously designed to include those with 'job lock', early retirees and those who just wanted to quit their job and 'follow their passion'.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:05 AM   #36
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I believe we were already subsidizing many people. It was just hidden away.
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:39 AM   #37
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It seems these discussions always get side-tracked into whether taking the ACA subsidy is an ethical thing to do. While I find this a fascinating topic, perhaps it would be better to split into a different thread where people can have at it.
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