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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-24-2005, 10:15 AM   #21
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Eminent Domain has always been there, but like said above, now we go from "for the public good" to raiding from one private party to go to another private party. The test case was perfect, very compelling, a perfect "camel's nose under the tent". I believe the problem is the Court decision wasn't narrow enough. Now that the precedent has been set, I expect abuses of this "right" will follow. What's to stop a rich person from kicking some one off their land because they think a McMansion would go well there? Hey, higher property taxes, mor tax revenue, greater good, right?
Courts look at the facts of a case. If the private property owner in your hypothetical had his property condemned by the city for the stated purpose of building Mr Rich Guy a McMansion, I think the state court would say, "Not a public purpose". There's always an appeal process involving a number of courts. Additionally, the people with the ultimate power over these condemnation decisions are elected. You always have the right to vote with your ballot.

I haven't read the decision nor do I care to, but the court's decision is constrained to the facts and circumstances of the case. The majority opinion may have said a bunch of stuff to broaden the scope of the opinion, but that is mere dictum, and has (or is supposed to have) no precendential weight in our common law system. To do otherwise would be legislating, a power not given the Supremes by the old Constitution.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-24-2005, 10:28 AM   #22
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

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Originally Posted by Mountain_Mike
I think the justices that voted for this action are traitors to this nation. I go to an even greater extreme in the opposite direction: I do not believe there should be property taxes. Such taxes mean that you never really "own" your property--you are merely renting from the government. If you don't believe me, try not paying property taxes for awhile and see who will eventually own "your " property. Welcome to the new Amerika.
You must be jaded because you live in some liberal, high property tax area . Where I live in my rational little neck of the woods, I feel pretty good about the property taxes I pay. In exchange for $1300 per annum, I get great schools, pretty good roads, excellent parks, recreation facilities and programs, public lakes, fire and police protection, community improvement programs, and a private lake in my back yard maintained by the city among many other things. You too can get all of these great things and many more. I'll send you an application to live in my city.

Seriously, I think municipal governments have a responsibility to their citizenry to keep taxes to a minimum and run things efficiently. I would say my local municipalities have done that. Two counties over, the local municipalities failed to do this for me. I liquidated my real estate there just last week because I didn't feel like they taxed me appropriately. I think the property taxation system is an efficient way to distribute costs of living in a civilization. You view the municipalities' ability to levy taxes and foreclose on property to collect those taxes as a burden on your claim to the title of your property (legally, it is). I view the levy and foreclosure as an efficient payment mechanism to share expenses for the municipality. You don't pay your taxes? That's ok; the sale of your property will.

Property can also be attached in a suit by the state or federal govt to collect taxes or fines, or by private people in a civil suit. Are these burdens on your property? Yes, but only when you don't pay your debts first.

Mountain Mike, how would you propose funding municipal governments, if at all? If you come up with a better system, let me know and I'll tell my local govts to switch over!

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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-24-2005, 11:11 AM   #23
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

Well, that didn't take long
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http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/3239024

Freeport moves to seize 3 properties
Court's decision empowers the city to acquire the site for a new marina
By THAYER EVANS
Chronicle Correspondent

FREEPORT - With Thursday's Supreme Court decision, Freeport officials instructed attorneys to begin preparing legal documents to seize three pieces of waterfront property along the Old Brazos River from two seafood companies for construction of an $8 million private boat marina.
map

The court, in a 5-4 decision, ruled that cities may bulldoze people's homes or businesses to make way for shopping malls or other private development. The decision gives local governments broad power to seize private property to generate tax revenue.

"This is the last little piece of the puzzle to put the project together," Freeport Mayor Jim Phillips said of the project designed to inject new life in the Brazoria County city's depressed downtown area.

Over the years, Freeport's lack of commercial and retail businesses has meant many of its 13,500 residents travel to neighboring Lake Jackson, which started as a planned community in 1943, to spend money. But the city is hopeful the marina will spawn new economic growth.

"This will be the engine that will drive redevelopment in the city," City Manager Ron Bottoms said.

Lee Cameron, director of the city's Economic Development Corp., said the marina is expected to attract $60 million worth of hotels, restaurants and retail establishments to the city's downtown area and create 150 to 250 jobs. He said three hotels, two of which have "high interest," have contacted the city about building near the marina.

"It's all dependent on the marina," Cameron said. "Without the marina, (the hotels) aren't interested. With the marina, (the hotels) think it's a home run."

Since September 2003, the city has been locked in a legal battle to acquire a 300-by-60-foot tract of land along the Old Brazos River near the Pine Street bridge as well as a 200-foot tract and 100-foot tract along the river through eminent domain from Western Seafood Co. and Trico Seafood Co.

Eminent domain is the right of a government to take private property for public use upon payment of the fair market value.

The tracts of land would be used for a planned 800- to 900-slip marina to be built by Freeport Marina, a group that that includes Dallas developer Hiram Walker Royall. He would buy the property from the city and receive a $6 million loan from the city to develop the project.

Freeport Marina would then invest $1 million in the project and contribute a 1,100-foot tract of land, valued at $750,000, to it before receiving the loan.

<snip>
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-24-2005, 04:11 PM   #24
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

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Originally Posted by BigMoneyJim
So much for buying waterfront property in town.
Looks like I can tell the future after all.

Think about it: if malls, marinas and hotels qualify for eminent domain there will be no private residences on desirable (or at least most desirable) waterfronts in a couple of decades. Depending on whether you think you'll be paid failry now may be the time to buy or sell waterfront property in anticipation.

Or maybe people will start voting the city planners out of office. One can only hope.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-25-2005, 11:20 AM   #25
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

One of the worst, most corrosive decisions the Court could have handed down.
Quote:
I haven't read the decision nor do I care to, but the court's decision is constrained to the facts and circumstances of the case.
With respect, I think you're being very optimistic.

The Institute for Justice fought this case for the homeowners, and I knew of their work in AZ. Consider one case that was representative of the true issue here: city of Mesa, AZ wanted to take a well-established hardware store under eminent domain, and sell it to a private individual who was going to build a brake repair shop on the site. No kidding.

We're now in a world where city officials can take what we all thought was a power to build public facilities (e.g. roads), and instead move property from one private owner to another, because they prefer the new use for XX reason.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We're going to hear about increasing abuses on this front. Sad news for our country.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-25-2005, 11:38 AM   #26
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

The Founders are turning in their graves.

How do you spell Stevens, Kennedy, Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer?

S O C I A L I S T S

I only hope the average American understands how disgusting this decision is. Not only is it a blatant and willful disregard of one of the bedrock principles of this country, it is the moral equivalent of the previously mentioned "Justices" setting fire to the Constitution of the United States.

Keep that image in your mind because that’s what these individuals just did.

John
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-25-2005, 01:52 PM   #27
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

http://www.watleyreview.com/2005/062105-2.html

New York State to take New Jersey by eminent domain
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-25-2005, 02:52 PM   #28
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

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Originally Posted by johnlw
The Founders are turning in their graves.

How do you spell Stevens, Kennedy, Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer?

S O C I A L I S T S
I'd call them lapdogs for the capitalist pigs myself.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 06-29-2005, 04:39 PM   #29
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/souter_pr...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Ha ha ha...local townie proposes seizing justice souters home, to replace it with "lost liberty inn", as the inn will generate much higher taxes than the supreme justices current home does.

Wonder how far this one will go...
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Hmmm, update
Old 07-01-2005, 03:53 PM   #30
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Hmmm, update

Normally I don't like congressional shenanigans, but I'm pretty happy to hear about this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161279,00.html

Maybe I won't be kicked out of my house after all.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-03-2005, 09:40 AM   #31
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

"When you withhold funds from enforcing a decision of the Supreme Court, you are, in fact, nullifying a decision of the Supreme Court," Pelosi said.

This explains a lot. Maybe this dirty liberal should go back to high school civics class. It isnt the job of the supreme court to make laws that need to be enforced. The court interpreted the law. The congress can change the law. That is balance of power in action.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-03-2005, 10:19 AM   #32
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

I just saw Laurences post on the proposed law to deny federal funding to governmental entities that use eminent domain to finance private projects. This is very troublesome to me. Despite the Supreme Court decision, many states already had allowed eminent domain for private projects so long as their was a public benefit--such as cleaning up a blighted area. This power had long been used in my community with good results. For example, a very run down area of town was condemned to put in a paper mill. Most owners sold happily but there always are a few holdouts. A current project involves a large expension of a medical center. This expansion provides huge benefits to a community that has grown little for years, and which lost significant population after the steel industry crash of the 1970s.

We aren't talking marinas here.

I haven't read the proposed legislation; I hope it isn't painting with as broad a brush as it seems.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-03-2005, 10:40 AM   #33
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

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Originally Posted by Martha
Despite the Supreme Court decision, many states already had allowed eminent domain for private projects so long as their was a public benefit--such as cleaning up a blighted area.
What is the definition of public benefit? Who gets to decide on what will serve the public interest? It seems that the decsion is always based on economic or financial criteria, e.g., brining in more revenue, creating more jobs. This topic will always be debatable and the decision will always be controversial since we are only human with different perspectives.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-03-2005, 10:50 AM   #34
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

Spanky, I agree that the decisions are tough and not without controversy. But what I saw was my city in trouble. Any new businesses of significant size would end up in the suburbs while the city itself stagnated. Due to condemnation, the owners of blighted property got good money for their property and their relocation costs. A city is being revitalized. Good jobs are coming to town. Without this power, one holdout can prevent a project the public at large believes is invaluable. But I do worry about the tyranny of the majority.

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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-03-2005, 11:51 AM   #35
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

My initial, emotional reaction was that the decision by the supremes was too broad (look at me! Armchair quarterbacking the Supreme Court! ). I whole heartedly support eminent domain for public projects or redevelopment, but solely basis justification on tax revenue means anyone with money can push anyone else off their property if they so desire. In California, with prop 13, property taxes only bump up to current market value when the home is sold. Hell, some one could knock on my door and say "you are selling me your house because I'll pay higher property taxes, here are the govt. papers, you have 30 days!". Hey, increased tax base! I think the pendulum has swung way to far in one direction with this decision.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-03-2005, 12:44 PM   #36
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

Donít worry - The reform of Proposition 13 protection for property will be formidable to implement because of potential oppositions and myriad lawsuits. No one is willing to pay their fair share of property taxes to fund education and other public services.
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-12-2005, 01:43 AM   #37
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

US judge set to lose home under law he brought in
By Charles Laurence in New York
(Filed: 10/07/2005)

A US Supreme Court Judge could lose his country farmhouse thanks to a controversial law which he himself voted to bring in.

Furious protesters are plotting to seize David Souter's $150,000 (£86,400) 19th century home and turn it into a hotel after he voted to give towns the legal right to make compulsory purchases. They view his support for the legislation as an affront to every American's inviolable right to personal property.

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...0/wjudge10.xml
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-12-2005, 08:40 AM   #38
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I just saw Laurences post on the proposed law to deny federal funding to governmental entities that use eminent domain to finance private projects.* This is very troublesome to me.* Despite the Supreme Court decision, many states already had allowed eminent domain for private projects so long as their was a public benefit--such as cleaning up a blighted area.* This power had long been used in my community with good results.* For example, a very run down area of town was condemned to put in a paper mill.* Most owners sold happily but there always are a few holdouts.* A current project involves a large expension of a medical center.* This expansion provides huge benefits to a community that has grown little for years, and which lost significant population after the steel industry crash of the 1970s.

We aren't talking marinas here.* *

I haven't read the proposed legislation; I hope it isn't painting with as broad a brush as it seems.
You all know how I feel about this stuff, but as usual I go a step beyond.
I would say (except for roads, bridges, etc) there should NEVER be any
"public taking" of property. "Blight" will eventually be fixed by private money
and entreprenuerial instincts, if you could only keep the government out
of it (which of course you can't). Blight I can stand. Trampling on The Bill
of Rights gets my back up.

JG
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list
Old 07-12-2005, 09:57 AM   #39
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Re: Better wipe the home off your asset list

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
You all know how I feel about this stuff, but as usual I go a step beyond.
I would say (except for roads, bridges, etc) there should NEVER be any
"public taking" of property. "Blight" will eventually be fixed by private money
and entreprenuerial instincts, if you could only keep the government out
of it (which of course you can't). Blight I can stand. Trampling on The Bill
of Rights gets my back up.

JG
And we now enter the small area where Mr. Galt and I agree!
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