big disappointment in ohio public pension!

[oldphd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan Being a pensioner from another state, I was curious to why the apparent big drop in payout for OP. looking at your link provided, I assume it is the current funding status of the system? In 2007 it was almost 100% funded, and now it has been mired in the upper 70% range since then. I am surprised there hasn't been a bigger "bounce back" in funding status of the system.

Not the OP, but am in OPERS as well. I believe the situation is this person is not eligible to retire within 5 years and is in a transition group. In my case, I am in Group B (eligible to retire between 5 and 10 years from now). Retiring at 55 with 25 years is a reduced benefit. Under the old system early retirement benefit was reduced by 3%/year. Now it is supposed to an actuarial reduction. I've gone into my account and run the online estimator, and this reduction is now almost 8%/year for my situation. Note that I don't have as many years in, so my full benefit is available at age 66, with reduced benefit available at 60. Before the changes I figured I'd start my benefit at 60, now I'll most likely delay.

Old rules = 85% of full benefit at 60, full benefit at 65.
New rules = about 53% of full benefit at 60, full benefit at 66.

Note that I'm referring to % of benefit, not FAS... The health care change is also significant for me... old rules I would be eligible in a couple of years... new rules adds 10 more, puts me over 65... These changes are very significant for some, (me!), and the only folks grandfathered are those already retired, there can be folks like the OP who had a lot of years, maybe done working, but a substantial reduction is in the works.

Missed being in group A by 2.25 years...

[Sue J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldphd Not the OP, but am in OPERS as well. I believe the situation is this person is not eligible to retire within 5 years and is in a transition group. In my case, I am in Group B (eligible to retire between 5 and 10 years from now). Retiring at 55 with 25 years is a reduced benefit. Under the old system early retirement benefit was reduced by 3%/year. Now it is supposed to an actuarial reduction. I've gone into my account and run the online estimator, and this reduction is now almost 8%/year for my situation. Note that I don't have as many years in, so my full benefit is available at age 66, with reduced benefit available at 60. Before the changes I figured I'd start my benefit at 60, now I'll most likely delay. Old rules = 85% of full benefit at 60, full benefit at 65. New rules = about 53% of full benefit at 60, full benefit at 66. Note that I'm referring to % of benefit, not FAS... The health care change is also significant for me... old rules I would be eligible in a couple of years... new rules adds 10 more, puts me over 65... These changes are very significant for some, (me!), and the only folks grandfathered are those already retired, there can be folks like the OP who had a lot of years, maybe done working, but a substantial reduction is in the works. Missed being in group A by 2.25 years...

Ouch!

If DH hadn't lost his job in 2010 he would have been coming up on 30 years in October 2013. It would have added quite a bit of money to have made it to 30. No reductions in the formula, larger subsidies for the health care insurance. But as it worked out I'm glad he's already retired. In a few years his health care allowance will drop to 75% of the cost and my subsidy will be eliminated and my coverage dropped altogether but looking at what's changing for everyone in health care, I'm ok with that.

DH's formula was FAS x 2.2% x Years of service = single benefit. Since he only had 26 years that was reduced to 80% and then taking the 100% to survivor option was another reduction to 88% of that. After all that was calculated his annual pension was 41% of FAS.

As for our son, he's 29 and has 7 or 8 years of service. He's not sure if he will stay long enough in his job to retire with the pension. If he does, who knows what other changes will be implemented by then!

[kongmen]

I will not be getting social security. The old plan provides for a multiplier of 2.2 per year with

a 25% reduction for early retirement example 2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -13.75=41 25% of

final salary. What they have done is doubled the reduction % for early retirement. Now it's

2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -27.5= 27.5% I of final salary. I was thinking with the changes

maybe 2 to 4 bases points

but 25 From an already reduced benefit! This is nothing less then legal thievery.

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmen I will not be getting social security. The old plan provides for a multiplier of 2.2 per year with a 25% reduction for early retirement example 2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -13.75=41 25% of final salary. What they have done is doubled the reduction % for early retirement. Now it's 2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -27.5= 27.5% I of final salary. I was thinking with the changes maybe 2 to 4 bases points but 25 From an already reduced benefit! This is nothing less then legal thievery.

Wow, I certainly cannot complain about my plan. I would have been creamed under your scenario. I went 24 and bought 4 to get to 28 years with a 2.35 multiplier at 45 years old. No social security either, or health benefits, but no age actuarial deduction either.

[FANOFJESUS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmen I will not be getting social security. The old plan provides for a multiplier of 2.2 per year with a 25% reduction for early retirement example 2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -13.75=41 25% of final salary. What they have done is doubled the reduction % for early retirement. Now it's 2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -27.5= 27.5% I of final salary. I was thinking with the changes maybe 2 to 4 bases points but 25 From an already reduced benefit! This is nothing less then legal thievery.

Will you get social security at 62?

[omni550]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rec7 Will you get social security at 62?

I believe OP stated that he gets no social security (at any age).

omni

[oldphd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by omni550 I believe OP stated that he gets no social security (at any age). omni

Ohio is one of the (few, I think) states that lets state pension eligible folks not pay into social security. Even if you have SS time as well, you're affected by WEP/GPO. Those two items were, IMHO, designed for folks in one system or the other. Those who have split careers can get the full punishment despite having paid in significantly. In my situation I would prefer to continue to pay into SS since I've already got numerous years in.

[Sue J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmen I will not be getting social security. The old plan provides for a multiplier of 2.2 per year with a 25% reduction for early retirement example 2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -13.75=41 25% of final salary. What they have done is doubled the reduction % for early retirement. Now it's 2.2×25yr=55% of final salary -27.5= 27.5% I of final salary. I was thinking with the changes maybe 2 to 4 bases points but 25 From an already reduced benefit! This is nothing less then legal thievery.

Kongmen,

The early retirement reduction used to be 29 years = 95%, 28 years = 90%, 27 years = 85%, 26 years = 80%, 25 years = 75%. It was written into the statute and you could find the chart online. It was also reflected in the online calculator. It was a known quantity.

I didn't realize what a large change that is when they changed it to an actuarial computation. Is there a place at the site to see the effect of retiring with less than 30 years? Or is it only evident when you use the personal calculator?

When DH looked at ER at 55 with 26 years we knew what calculations to use. The only unknown was what the amount would be when choosing 100% to survivor. We are the same age so I think the reduction was smaller than if DH was much older than me.

[almost there]

I know the feeling. The public utility I work for got rid of the defined benefit 16 yrs into my career. Have been there 30 yrs now and it still burns me up. Rather than $800k in the pension or a huge annuity its $240k or 1000 per mo. I guess I had time to plan for it and should be happy about that. But folks that had a couple yrs on me get 3x as much.
Such a deal.
Take what you can. It will never be better than the deal they offer you today. Sad but true.

[kongmen]

Sue j, the only way I know to get at the numbers is to use the personal calculator on their website and of course by calling.
They don't even want to tell you percentages anymore they just want to give you dollar figures on the phone.
The only way I came up with 27.5% is by getting my monthly dollar figure and working backwards.
I'm still holding out little hope that someone at OPERS is making a mistake when calculating my benefit that includes the website because it jives with what they are telling me on the phone.
If I try to figure out what my yealy multiplier is it looks like it would be 1.1 instead of 2.2.
Example 1.1×25=27.5

[TuborgP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripper1 Is that compounded or simple interest?

Simple applied with our July check at the end of the month

[almost there]

Fact is, those numbers are simply not sustainable. Fed, State and local Gov. employees are the last to find out. Started out with regular Co's. Then utilities in the 80's. Gov type jobs much later. Sad situation. But its just math. With Private Co's share holders and CEO's get the $$$. With Gov. there just isn't the revenue anymore as most non Gov. jobs got moved outside the US. Folks now entering the job market contributes next to nothing as that's what they are paid. Its a deeper issue for sure.
Just my 2.

For the record, non Gov pensions for an employee are about 10% after 30 yrs. Down from 85% 30 yrs ago when we signed on. For new employees, it does not exist.

[ripper1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut You can handle this. Just get into your time machine and go back and redo about 25 years of our life.

Who are we. Are you talking about your personal situation?

[kongmen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost there Fact is, those numbers are simply not sustainable. Fed, State and local Gov. employees are the last to find out. Started out with regular Co's. Then utilities in the 80's. Gov type jobs much later. Sad situation. But its just math. With Private Co's share holders and CEO's get the $$$. With Gov. there just isn't the revenue anymore as most non Gov. jobs got moved outside the US. Folks now entering the job market contributes next to nothing as that's what they are paid. Its a deeper issue for sure. Just my 2. For the record, non Gov pensions for an employee are about 10% after 30 yrs. Down from 85% 30 yrs ago when we signed on. For new employees, it does not exist.

While I agree it still sucks ass and throws one hell of curve ball at me.

[TuborgP]

State pension funding levels vary from state to state. States have various funding levels with a few fully funded. With state fiscal years being over folks can check and see the rate of return their states trust fund had for the previous year. Also good to compare the funds balance for the last five years.

[TuborgP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuborgP State pension funding levels vary from state to state. States have various funding levels with a few fully funded. With state fiscal years being over folks can check and see the rate of return their states trust fund had for the previous year. Also good to compare the funds balance for the last five years.

The devil is in the specifics of your states details and not a public forum.

[ripper1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmen With the new legislation l will be going from 41.25% of my final average salary for 25 years and 55 years old to 27.5% Unbelievable!! And no health care till 60 years old. I have just over 5 years to make up some ground. This is just your basic public service position not law enforcement it is ohio public employees retirement systems (OPERS) version of early retirement 25 years of service and 55 years old.

And the public employees are the bad guys. In the press you are only going to hear about the 1%. It works both ways...public and private. The vast majority of public employee retirees get a small pension and most do not get social security. I could go on here but I don't want to get in trouble with the moderators.

[ripper1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuborgP State pension funding levels vary from state to state. States have various funding levels with a few fully funded. With state fiscal years being over folks can check and see the rate of return their states trust fund had for the previous year. Also good to compare the funds balance for the last five years.

+1.....With a raging bull market something gotta give.

[FANOFJESUS]

So let's say a person made 100k then the pension would be $27,500. That is doable in the Midwest but a person is not going to live large. At 50k it would be $13,749 tight even by Midwest standards.

[almost there]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmen While I agree it still sucks ass and throws one hell of curve ball at me.

Me too. I am getting let go in 2 weeks with 29 yrs at 51.
Missed retirement by 3.9 yrs. (Not that it meant anything these days)
Missed all the grand father clauses except medical.
(Yea.... I made 0ne!)
With Oblamo care around the corner who knows if I will even keep that.
85% coverage till 65 for now. Will wait and see if it changes next year.

Its just a bad time to be in our shoes. Game changing at the very end sucks the farts out of dead chickens. Not to mention the interest rates.
Always planned on a million dollars and 5% in CD's would do it.
Now? WTF?

I blame lots of things on this. But have to stay positive and make the right moves. (If I can)