Birth Order and Financial Success

[Maurice]

Net-net: Bad poll.

Wow, I read that again this morning and it is really snarky. My apologies.

It would be interesting to see if there's any material difference by (all) birth order, though. My theory is that the youngest are the most financially responsible.

 

[Gumby]

Gumby: I think you won't be able to reach any conclusions with this poll, but the answers have been very interesting to read.

I agree. And that's really the whole point of the exercise.

 

[deserat]

Interesting thread reading all of the stories. I am an only child now, my brother died in his early 20's. I don't know who would have had the better NW. He was much more creative than I and might have hit some type of jackpot along those lines - he also was more intelligent than I (measured), however, my father told me I would be more successful as I had drive and ambition and stick-to-it-iveness. In any case, I think I've done fairly well - what has amazed me is now in a short time with prodigious saving habits, one can really increase their net worth. When my husband and I got married 5 years ago, he had a negative net worth. I brought most of the assets to the marriage, however, in just five years, we've really done well. He is amazed every time he computes our net worth as the 15 years before when married to his previous wife, he couldn't sleep at night worrying about his debts. We definitely live a different lifestyle from that. In addition, we've enjoyed life along the way traveling to places we want to go. I think the key for me has been ensuring I have options - i.e. a large enough savings account to move on if necessary; a mindset capable of enduring 'lean times' if necessary; the attitude of spending money and time on necessities and only those things I truly value - however, if I can find a way to do it less expensively then doing that. It's the little things over time that can add up - this economy issue has frankly not affected us too much, because we had the cushions from saving over the years.

I believe that my husband, the youngest of his clan, has the highest net worth of all of his siblings; he is the only one with a college education (and a masters); however, he was also the youngest of an immigrant family, so was the most adaptable to the US language-wise and culture-wise. Funny thing is, he is the one who visits his home country more than his siblings, who are more culturally oriented towards their home country.

 

[FUEGO]

I'm the second child of 2. Most successful as far as I know. My bro hit me up for a couple thousand bucks to stave of foreclosure a couple years ago since he's been unemployed as much as employed during his adult life. He's kind of lazy, but he's smart, so makes decent money at tech places when employed (microsoft was the last employer).

In DW's family, she is 3 of 5, smack dab in the middle. Most successful sibling by far (financially). They all emigrated here during their childhood after living all their lives in a refugee camp. As a result, the older siblings had the distinct disadvantage of not having any formal education or speaking any English until the age at which most kids are in middle school. DW came here and started in 1st grade so had the advantage of a fairly normal education (starting out in English as a Second Language classes, of course). The younger siblings started school normally, also in ESL classes.

DW is the only one to finish an undergraduate degree, and then she went on to get a law degree (Juris Doctor). The other 4 siblings had a smattering of community college classes, and I think 1 graduated with an AA. The two younger siblings (who had a full education starting at age 5) didn't finish HS however eventually got their GEDs.

But they are all employed or employable and get by (paycheck to paycheck) ok. Living the American Dream as you would say. Though they might disagree and point to their empty checking accounts and pile of bills coming due every month.

 

[Orchidflower]

Only, so I guess that makes me the wealthiest and poorest. And I got almost nothing that I wanted even tho parents had money: they spent all their time trying to scrape that buffalo off the nickle they were so tight...ha!

There was an excellent book out on the birth order factor called, ironically, "The Birth Order Factor." But I can't find that specific one as it was the original and came out years ago, but amazon.com has some good books it appears on this subject. And, yes, your birth order does really affect your personality:

http://www.amazon.com/birth-order-factor-personality-influenced/dp/0679505105



Probably alot on the net about this, but here is a good looking article on quick glance for more information on birth order and how it influences your future behavior:

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/how-birth-order-influences-who-we-are/

Here's another good one (very general, but you'll get the idea for an overview):

http://www.birthorderandpersonality.com/index.html

But I like this definition from Dr. Spock the best. I think he hits it more on the head than most websites. The only one I read was for the only child as that was the one I could relate to most, and I think he hit it on the head for us onlies. So here is his site:

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5550,00.html



Some of the posts that talk about how those who saved alot--despite having not such high paying salaries--and did well ultimately reminds me of that old movie with Peter Boyle "Joe." Joe is talking about his savings to this wealthy upper management (VP?) megacorp type. Joe crudely asks the guy how much he has in savings and the megacorp guy has little. Joe's saved tons and has alot more, because he is an unskilled worker living a lower middle class live, not trying to impress anyone and just worked and saved. Pretty funny scene if you ever saw it..and so true.

 

[skyvue]

I am the oldest of three and have the most financial success. The middle kid is my sister that is 4 year younger than me and she is also doing very well financially. I probably only make more than her because my career has a 4 year head start. The baby (sister) was 12 years younger than me and has struggled to do anything right. The older sister and I both graduated with engineering degrees and very high gpa's, while the youngest has trouble keeping a minimum wage job.

I blame this on how differently she was treated by my parents. My older sister and I received a lot of tough love and constant pressue to succeed. When the youngest came along, it was like my parents were in "grandparent mode" and spoiled her to death and never said a cross word to her. I think the parenting style was really the only difference. She is like a lot of young people today who think the world owes them something because "she is special".

 

[Texas Proud]

Not a good poll.... because men are usually more successful than women (where is my flame suit)....

And you just seem to want to ask 'the oldest or someone else'.... but there is a difference between the middle and the youngest... but not in this poll....

THEN, there is why they might be financially successful... my sister that is just older than me has raised two kids, put them through college, has a very nice house etc. etc... but my brother is more financially successful... but has never married, no kids, rented a one bedroom place most of his life... and OH, my sister got a lot of hers from her husband...

But hey... to each their own....

 

[Rustic23]

Statistically this poll does not work. The numbers you come up with are effected by the number in each sample group. What I mean is there is only one 'Oldest' is a multifamily group. There may be 10 or more 'Others'. So for every 1 oldest vote you get, you will get multiple Other. So the fact that Other is leading Oldest is not surprising.

In my case Second Youngest of 5. Oldest brother had no money management skills, Second Oldest did OK, Third Oldest still working and cares little about money, I am retired, Youngest is on welfare, or close.

 

[FIREd]

It's just my sister and me, I am the oldest and wealthiest by far. I have more advanced degrees in a more lucrative field than she does. I pursued international career opportunities while she decided to stay close to home. I married well early (DINK) while her romantic life has been more tumultuous leading to a situation which has made accumulating wealth harder (SIK). I am a long term planner and she is not. I made financial independence a goal and work hard to make it happen while she hopes that she will be well off one day but doesn't take the steps to make it happen. She inherited my mom's bad spending habits.

 

[hankster]

I'm the youngest of three brothers. Though none of us earned a college degree, we all trained into some well paying careers:

Oldest - Airline pilot after the military, followed by a career in air traffic control (now retired)

Middle - Highway engineering and construction

Myself - Electric utility operations

The oldest is in the best financial position (though I'm closing the gap)
Middle guy likes to spend money, not as frugal as oldest and myself.

Our parents modeled a good work ethic and encouraged us to be self-reliant. I can't recall any hint of favoritism in our household. We were all held to the same standards.

 

[kcowan]

My older brother lived at home with our parents all his life. He worked at Bell and then as an insurance underwriter. Started working at 17. Never owned a car. Never had a girlfriend. But he saved everything he made. Retired in 1982 to live off the high interest (he was 43).

I went to university (Masters) then got a job with a Fortune 500 company, rising to executive ranks. Took early retirement at 25 years, worked for another 10. I had a marriage with two kids and all the toys. I would guess that I caught up to him in net worth about 10 years after my divorce (in 2005).

I always believed that he was smarter than me. Although many people dismissed him as the guy who knew the theory of everything and the practical knowledge of nothing.

I don't see a pattern is financial success based on birth order. I do see differences in personality and risk-taking though.

 

[tmm99]

I haven't read the thread so somone else might have mentioned this already, but this poll seems unfair to the eldest, since if you have 10 siblings, the chances of the eldest having the financial success over the others diminish greatly compared to the eldest having only one sibling...

 

[Goonie]

.....I have one aunt who is the envy of the family as she has had a cola'd city pension plus health sense age 58......

My Mom is in that same boat..cola'd DB pension from the municipality and had full health insurance until Medicare kicked in, and now the health insurance covers whatever Medicare doesn't.

Two of her three siblings always envied her, and were pretty jealous of her ability to retire @ 60 with the pension and ins., since they were both pretty much n'er-do-well's all of their lives. Her youngest sibling was completely the opposite....she always admired my Mom, and walk the same walk. She always had a good job...with full benefits. But, unfortunately, she passed away just one week before her retirement date.

I'm also in the same boat....cola'd DB pension and full health insurance from the municipality. Both of my siblings are envious of me having retired @ 50 in 2007. The oldest is envious, but happy for me.....not jealous or angry at all! The middle sibling, on the other hand, is not only envious, but jealous AND angry.....but that's just the way she is.

We all three were raised the same and were treated the same. It's just that we all three made different choices in life, and we all took different paths in life. Thus we've all gotten to where we are in life because of those choices. Two of us knew this from the beginning, and have dealt with it accordingly. The third is just now, after all these years, just starting to figure it out....maybe!

 

[mickeyd]

My sisters all married well and are quite comefortable due to their smart marrying activities. My wife is doing ok; which is probably why she has stuck with me for almost 40 years.

 

[calmloki]

Think it might be a combination of how one responds to things - some portion of which might be learned behavior - and expectations. A first born would presumably see and learn how adults respond vs. how his less-trained siblings respond as well. Might mean the first-born could be more deliberate and less spontaneous.

I'd think expectations would be higher for the first child, untempered by reality. In my case, just hearing my pretty unemotionally demonstrative father call me his first-born felt and sounded special. Going to college was a given in my mind.

I'm a pretty dreamy lazy sort, so my grades in high school were horrible, while my more gregarious networking sister got great grades. By the time my ten year younger brother came along all that parenting stress was gone - he got to crawl around eating dust bunnies and dog food and is altogether a much more easygoing sort. His expectations for himself are modest, his financial achievements are modest, and he has a great time living very in the present. Unlike me, living my life years into the future.

I got lucky and met up with my gal, also a firstborn. Her father was perhaps less demonstrative than mine but had higher expectations for performance - there was not a good enough. She heard "why aren't they A pluses?" more than once. She responded by being a person who is never done, always strives to please, and is just dogged in the amount of effort she is willing to expend. Our partnership of firstborns joins my dreaming nature and laziness (which makes me very efficient in my expenditure of energy) with her desire to please and willingness to work. Both of us being thrifty and lucky the result has been financial success that is greater than that of our siblings.

Absent her partnership would I still have been more financially successful than my good grades sister? I think so - I have a few IQ points on her and am, as mentioned, lazy. Its easier to not spend and be thrifty than to work and spend - and my sister does love to spend. That said, I'm also male, tall, and have a deep voice - all things which I believe correlate to higher income!

 

[Tadpole]

Financially speaking my older sister married well and my husband married better.

 

[misty57]

I haven't read the thread so somone else might have mentioned this already, but this poll seems unfair to the eldest, since if you have 10 siblings, the chances of the eldest having the financial success over the others diminish greatly compared to the eldest having only one sibling...

But we're talking about birth order. I think the categories should be oldest, middle or youngest. So the question is, does being in any particular position in the birth order give you an advantage/disadvantage in term of your financial success.

If I had had to make a guess before the poll was taken, it would have been that the oldest would usually be the most successful and the "baby" the least successful.

My oldest brother is definitely the smartest of all of us, but chose a profession that was not extremely high paying because that's what he wanted to do. If he had decided to be an engineer, I'm sure that his net worth would be the highest.

The "babies" are usually more spoiled because the older they get, the more discretionary money the parents are likely to have as their incomes increase over time. Parents are also a little more laid back as you go down the line in terms of strictness, because as they have more kids they just flat out get more "tired".

This was the way it was in my family anyway. The first 3 kids were not allowed to get a driver's license if they did not qualify for the good student discount. The baby not only didn't qualify, but was the only child to be subsidized for a vehicle.

The baby in my family was the one that seemingly got the most "help" but who struggles the most. Personally, I don't think you do your children any favors by helping them too much financially, unless it's education assistance - and even then, I think it's extremely important for them to contribute something - the cost of tuition or the cost of books or something so that they are financially invested in the outcome.

 

[tryan]

hmmm, I think a poll of "success" married vs. divorced would have better correlation.

FWIW all 5 of the sibs have college degrees and are successful in thier own rights. Some financial, some otherwise.

 

[kumquat]

hmmm, I think a poll of "success" married vs. divorced would have better correlation.

Or kids vs. no kids. Divorces and kids cost a lot. Fortunately, I only paid for the kids.

 

[Gumby]

Statistically this poll does not work. The numbers you come up with are effected by the number in each sample group. What I mean is there is only one 'Oldest' is a multifamily group. There may be 10 or more 'Others'. So for every 1 oldest vote you get, you will get multiple Other. So the fact that Other is leading Oldest is not surprising.

No, not surprising at all. There are probably a dozen ways in which this poll is defective as a matter of social science research. Your example is just one. But it is an interesting topic and does get people talking.

 

[NW-Bound]

The "babies" are usually more spoiled because the older they get, the more discretionary money the parents are likely to have as their incomes increase over time. Parents are also a little more laid back as you go down the line in terms of strictness, because as they have more kids they just flat out get more "tired".

That is true in my family. I also had more responsibilities than my younger brothers. I picked them up and dropped them off at schools, tutored them, did house maintenance chores, etc...

On the other hand, my wife's family was a bit different. Being the youngest, she lived with her parents during their financial decline years, and did not enjoy being pampered like her older siblings. She was more responsible, and to this day still takes care of her parents.

Regarding the financial status, I was ahead of my younger brothers, but my current sporadic part-time income is no match for their full-time pays. We do not share salaries nor net worth, but I knew I commanded a higher pay back when I was with megacorps, simply by estimating from the pay scales of the positions and titles. However, they are moving up in their career while I am out to pasture.

About net worth, I had a 7-figure portfolio 10 years ago. Even now, though my brothers are past the age I was then, I do not think they yet break the $1M mark. They simply spend more than I do! The reason I do not think they have a big stash was that during the housing bubble, they got excited when McMansions in their neighborhood were climbing in prices. A gain or loss of $100K or $200K in RE would not excite me, as I gain or lose that much in a week and sometimes even a matter of days, just as many here do.

 

[freebird5825]

...The "babies" are usually more spoiled because the older they get, the more discretionary money the parents are likely to have as their incomes increase over time...

Or...in families of lesser means, the youngest gets all the hand-me-downs (clothes, worn out bicycles, etc) and money is so tight there is little wiggle room for "extras".
BTDT as the youngest.

 

[Goonie]

Or...in families of lesser means, the youngest gets all the hand-me-downs (clothes, worn out bicycles, etc) and money is so tight there is little wiggle room for "extras".
BTDT as the youngest.

That would fit me to a "T".....and "extras" for us was a bowl of popcorn while we sat on the floor in the living room and watched "Saturday Night At The Movies" on TV.....in living black & white! And we were happy with that, and looked forward to it each week!

Life was good....We were poor and didn't know it....and didn't care!

 

[Dog]

3rd born out of five (3 sisters/one brother). Probably the one most financially sound overall (with or without spouse's contribution). Have been married for 30 years, worked non-stop since graduating high school and earned my BA while working full time and always living below means.

 

[wildcat]

Our situation goes like this:

Oldest is my brother - he is quite aggressive, always job hopped for higher pay, moved around the country, etc. He always took big risks and seemed to be a "act now, figure out the details later" person if he smelled opportunity.

During the real estate craze, he levered up big time (even used his graduate student loans towards real estate) and bought as many properties as he could in a old industrial town in the rust belt. He had ideas that the real estate boom would continue and his properties/rental income would be big winners. Ended up with like 4-5 houses and even did some big renovations in the one he lived in thinking he could sell for a big profit.

Now he can't sell, lives several states away and the debt piled up. Added 2 kids and to me, he is one job loss away from a real bad situation.

Middle is my sister - extremely conservative approach to life, has had the same employer all of her working years. Great saver, good income but very risk adverse. She has been the winner thus far.

Me the youngest - a mix between the two, good saver, take on some risk with certain aspects in life and investments. More of a calculated risk person. Not as aggressive of a person as my brother but not as passive as my sister. I am 2nd to my sister due to a few down years in my late 20s and my income has not been as high. However, for a while I was the winner (if you call it that) prior to those down years because I took on some "good" risk.

Lastly, the thing that seems to be the most important to each sibling's success is whom they married. My brother and his wife don't seem to be on the same page when it comes to financial management. Even if his real estate bets paid off that doesn't mean he would be in great financial shape. My sister and her husband are for the most part on the same page - good savers (she is really the tight one), good income, good financial management, etc. Huge impact and will continue to be in the future.

I'm still single but IMO there are some advantages to watching older siblings and learning what to do or what not to do in life.