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Old 09-17-2016, 07:00 PM   #21
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I think the ROAD aspect of it (on the E side of the house) has been addressed with the modified HYTs and now having to meet a board for E-7. I think the days of being truly ROAD (prior to the coveted 18 years TOS 'sanctuary') are pretty much over.

All I can say is that's it absolutely wonderful being a member of the blue card mafia!
Not so in USN. HYT at E6 is 20, so ROAD E6s and even O4s and O5s are somewhat ubiquitous.

Again this isn't saying that's everyone. I am at 17, intending to punch at 20, but am far from ROAD. As others said, I have a job that means something to me and my Sailors, so I'll keep giving max effort for them. Eventually, my mentality will shift to my own future, but that will be a good while yet.

DOD is definitely going to make hay on this retirement change, but I also agree that I think it will greatly impact retention beyond, say, ten years. When they have to start throwing bonus money around to retain subpar talent, it'll be interesting to see what they do. We have cycles of that type of thing in my designator. I know if the DB/Tricare at 20 wasn't there, I probably would've been done at 12 myself.
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:47 PM   #22
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If I understand, the immediate pension at the end of 20 years service is still intact. Albeit at a reduced rate.

The biggie would've been making the retiree wait until age 60 or whatever to receive their pension. There were some political power brokers trying to push that through.

I've learned never to tell a civilian at what age I started receiving my pension. It makes a lot of people angry. Generally those who have never served.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:41 AM   #23
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If I understand, the immediate pension at the end of 20 years service is still intact. Albeit at a reduced rate.

The biggie would've been making the retiree wait until age 60 or whatever to receive their pension. There were some political power brokers trying to push that through.
.
Yeah, it is a reduced pension similar to the REDUX option. I guess our leaders forgot what happened to retention after they attempted to force that option and we are doomed to repeat the past.

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I've learned never to tell a civilian at what age I started receiving my pension. It makes a lot of people angry. Generally those who have never served.
Seriously? Its not like the military's retirement system or pay is a secret. Those same people had the option to join and enjoy being away from their family for a year at a time while sleeping in some dump country.
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:19 AM   #24
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I've learned never to tell a civilian at what age I started receiving my pension. It makes a lot of people angry. Generally those who have never served.
Not worth it given that one has high probability of coming home with half of a face missing or ending up homeless or in Jail.

And given a new system it is worth even less. Those who make it to 20 certainly deserve those pensions.
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Old 09-18-2016, 09:02 AM   #25
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After reading the background on the new 'blended' retirement system, I think it's likely to be a positive change, with the caveat that service members must be responsible for their own FI for it to work well (and I firmly believe they should).

However, on the larger issue of recruiting, retention and, more importantly - service, I'm not a fan of the all volunteer military which, of course, is a large causative factor on this issue of retirement programs. I think we should reinstitute the draft (actually, mandatory national service) for all men & women, requiring all to give 2 yrs of service (Military, AmeriCorps, Peace Corps, etc.) between the ages of 18-26. I also think such service should be a prerequisite to elected office. But, hey, that's just me.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:08 PM   #26
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Seriously? Its not like the military's retirement system or pay is a secret. Those same people had the option to join and enjoy being away from their family for a year at a time while sleeping in some dump country.
Maybe a half century ago the military pension system was well known, but this is 2016 and a public ignorant of anything that doesn't directly involve them.

As an example, for years when asked what I did in the Navy, and I replied I was an air traffic controller, a reasonably intelligent conversation followed. Now the most often response is: "The Navy has airplanes?".

Our pensions would've been gone decades ago if more people knew about them. Just look at all the flack state employees receive on various forums. Why? Everybody knows one.
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Old 09-18-2016, 05:34 PM   #27
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Our pensions would've been gone decades ago if more people knew about them. Just look at all the flack state employees receive on various forums. Why? Everybody knows one.
I don't think so. Most people I talk to know about military pensions and health care and believe that more than anyone first responders and military folks "earn" them. Many people don't like state pensions that are publicly funded because they're earned by people often represented by unions and many of those are doing jobs that are no more difficult or worthy of such a benefit than many private sector jobs.

Maybe it's a function of living in an area that has a heavy military population, but I'm usually the one bringing up the fact that we can't get giving out pensions to military retirees ad infinitum.
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:36 PM   #28
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Many people don't like state pensions that are publicly funded because they're earned by people often represented by unions and many of those are doing jobs that are no more difficult or worthy of such a benefit than many private sector jobs.[/I]
Except many people don't realize that those of us in the public sector did our jobs earning 20% -30% less then the equivalent private sector job. Trust me we paid for those benefits that the ignorant complain about.
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Old 09-19-2016, 03:11 PM   #29
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Ah, one day.. one day. Until then I shall keep having a good time!

I noticed that your profile says you live in Georgia. Add the username and I have to ask if you are previous JSTARS?
I'll send a PM with the details...
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:14 PM   #30
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I don't think so. Most people I talk to know about military pensions and health care and believe that more than anyone first responders and military folks "earn" them. Many people don't like state pensions that are publicly funded because they're earned by people often represented by unions and many of those are doing jobs that are no more difficult or worthy of such a benefit than many private sector jobs.

Maybe it's a function of living in an area that has a heavy military population, but I'm usually the one bringing up the fact that we can't get giving out pensions to military retirees ad infinitum.
Yes, living in an area with a high concentration of active duty personnel, and retirees and veterans would certainly change ones perspective. Where I live, most of the vets are the few WWII guys that are still alive, and some Korean and Vietnam vets here and there. I've never met a veteran under the age of 70 here.

Get away from the geographical areas of high military concentration, and it's another ball game. Come to middle America and see what kind of reaction you get when you announce you've been getting $XX,000 a year from the government since age 40. Doesn't go over big, when some people the same age, are working two jobs to take home the same amount money.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:39 AM   #31
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Yes, living in an area with a high concentration of active duty personnel, and retirees and veterans would certainly change ones perspective. Where I live, most of the vets are the few WWII guys that are still alive, and some Korean and Vietnam vets here and there. I've never met a veteran under the age of 70 here.

Get away from the geographical areas of high military concentration, and it's another ball game. Come to middle America and see what kind of reaction you get when you announce you've been getting $XX,000 a year from the government since age 40. Doesn't go over big, when some people the same age, are working two jobs to take home the same amount money.
There is a lot of truth to this. I personally never liked living in a military community...it could be, um, well, anyway.

When I moved back to ATL (while still on active duty), the vibe was quite different. I did my best to not go into public places in uniform (flight suit most of the time) because of all the attention that it garnered. I certainly appreciated the "thanks for your service!" but it could get overwhelming at times and as a distinct introvert, I didn't enjoy the prolonged accolades.

As far as folks in non-mil towns understanding the pension system, yeah, most don't understand the FULL value of the benefit, but I don't explain it to them, either!
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:23 AM   #32
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... I am at 17, intending to punch at 20...
[This is a bit of a tangent.]

I'm curious as to what fiscal reasons someone would have at 20 years to punch? I know there are dozens/hundreds to reasons to punch for other than fiscal reasons.

I think we've all heard the saying, 'you're working for half pay after 20 years'. However, if you run the numbers, Os take a large tax increase (assuming post-retirement job with similar salary (base pay+BAx... goal being to have similar take home pay). Impact is higher if in area with larger BAH payment (i.e. need to replace BAH with post-taxed income equivalent).

[Large grain of salt here...] Most retired Os @ ~20 years would be in the 25% bracket (new job + retired pay) vice 15% bracket prior to retirement. All that "new" income that pushed you into the higher bracket is taxable, hence a large increase in taxes. [I'm ignoring state taxes, which could also be a large increase if coming from tax free state.]

Am I missing something?
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Old 09-20-2016, 11:28 AM   #33
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A good many of my peers punched at 20 to go with the airlines. Today, a pilot can leave the service at about age 43, and be with the airlines until 65. This age may be extended again before they reach that age. The money from a military retirement system plus very good airline pay is hard to pass up. Couple this with the love and desire to fly and it becomes a no brainer.
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Old 09-20-2016, 11:54 AM   #34
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Am I missing something?
Maybe. In my case it was simply burnout.
12-hour workdays with a 75-minute commute on each end for many years.
More than enough for me to decide to punch out.
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Old 09-20-2016, 12:05 PM   #35
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Maybe. In my case it was simply burnout.
12-hour workdays with a 75-minute commute on each end for many years.
More than enough for me to decide to punch out.
Oh I can relate to the 75 min commute... mine is ~100+ (DC) each way (albeit 60 min on train and 30 min walk). Definitely part of my calculus on punching.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:20 PM   #36
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A good many of my peers punched at 20 to go with the airlines. Today, a pilot can leave the service at about age 43, and be with the airlines until 65. This age may be extended again before they reach that age. The money from a military retirement system plus very good airline pay is hard to pass up. Couple this with the love and desire to fly and it becomes a no brainer.
When I punched, TERA was in full effect (could retire at 15 years) and the AF lost a good number of airlift pilots. Guess where they went?

A good buddy retired when I did (at 15 years). When the TERA window first opened, he applied and was denied. Then he was passed over for O-4 and was told he had to GTFO...so he reapplied for TERA and was accepted. Talk about a messed up way to manage personnel!
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:20 PM   #37
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A good many of my peers punched at 20 to go with the airlines. Today, a pilot can leave the service at about age 43, and be with the airlines until 65. This age may be extended again before they reach that age. The money from a military retirement system plus very good airline pay is hard to pass up. Couple this with the love and desire to fly and it becomes a no brainer.
And don't forget Tricare....it makes that pension worth quite a bit more.
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:38 PM   #38
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When I punched, TERA was in full effect (could retire at 15 years) and the AF lost a good number of airlift pilots. Guess where they went?

A good buddy retired when I did (at 15 years). When the TERA window first opened, he applied and was denied. Then he was passed over for O-4 and was told he had to GTFO...so he reapplied for TERRI and was accepted. Talk about a messed up way to manage personnel!
Passed over for O-4 Geez! Did he diddle the Wing Commander's daughter or something?
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:41 PM   #39
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Ah, one day.. one day. Until then I shall keep having a good time!

I noticed that your profile says you live in Georgia. Add the username and I have to ask if you are previous JSTARS?
JSTARS. Boy, that brings back memories.

Raise your hand if "TR-1" and "PLSS" means anything to you.
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:57 PM   #40
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Passed over for O-4
Some of the people who get passed over and some who get promoted really surprises me. It just takes one pissy supervisor to screw someone out of a promotion.
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