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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-22-2006, 05:38 PM   #81
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107




and for comparison cash reserves money market ytd 3.45
Wow, they are raping you on the MMF

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-22-2006, 05:45 PM   #82
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

nooooo thats year to date. they are at 5% right now . ytd is right where most funds are.

vanguard prime is 3.82 and the fidelity figure was only up tp sept 30th, as i took it off my newsletter. the vanguard is right up to current moment
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-22-2006, 07:01 PM   #83
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
nooooo thats year to date. they are at 5% right now . ytd is right where most funds are.

vanguard prime is 3.82 and the fidelity figure was only up tp sept 30th, as i took it off my newsletter. the vanguard is right up to current moment
My bad, I was thinking current yield

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-23-2006, 03:30 PM   #84
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing


Any opinions about MMBFX (MFS Muni Bond fund) ?

I got a BUNCH that a full-service advisor sold me (with 5% load)
by DCA during my more naive days in the 90s.

Seems to be yielding 4.86% with YTD rtn of 3.44%. This seems
pretty darn good given that it's tax-free.

Is there a good alternate you might prefer ? I can change it out
easily 'cause there's no capgain (or loss) to speak of, because the
substantial yield has all been DRIP'ed - and the frontend load is
water under the bridge !


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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-23-2006, 06:37 PM   #85
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEyles
Any opinions about MMBFX (MFS Muni Bond fund) ?

I got a BUNCH that a full-service advisor sold me (with 5% load)
by DCA during my more naive days in the 90s.

Seems to be yielding 4.86% with YTD rtn of 3.44%. This seems
pretty darn good given that it's tax-free.

Is there a good alternate you might prefer ? I can change it out
easily 'cause there's no capgain (or loss) to speak of, because the
substantial yield has all been DRIP'ed - and the frontend load is
water under the bridge !


John,

Instead of MMBFX, you could go with Vanguard's Long-Term Tax-Exempt [VWLTX] or Insured Long-Trm T/E [VILPX]. All three have similar durations and credit qualities, plus Vanguard's expenses are around 0.15%. Interestingly, all three are "long term bond funds" but their durations are only around 6 years, which is usually in the intermediate term range.

If you wanted a strictly intermediate term muni fund, you could look at Vanguard's Interm-Term Tax-Ex [VWITX]. Same credit quality and low expense ratio, but a slightly lower duration, at 4.9 years.

TIAA-CREF and Fidelity also have national long term muni funds, but at slightly higher expense ratios.

I'm surprised that your broker actually sold you a not-so-sh*ty fund.

- Alec
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-23-2006, 09:53 PM   #86
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

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Originally Posted by ats5g
I'm surprised that your broker actually sold you a not-so-sh*ty fund.
She sold me loaded funds (duh) but all very good ones I think. In addition to
these, a bunch of American Funds, which have done quite well. At least she
got me regularly investing - that was worth the loads I paid. But I'm ready to
move on, thanks in no small part to what I'm learning here (thanks).


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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-23-2006, 11:40 PM   #87
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEyles
She sold me loaded funds (duh) but all very good ones I think. In addition to
these, a bunch of American Funds, which have done quite well. At least she
got me regularly investing - that was worth the loads I paid. But I'm ready to
move on, thanks in no small part to what I'm learning here (thanks).

So she made you money, and you're moving on? Interesting..........


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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 12:18 AM   #88
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Quote:
She sold me loaded funds (duh) but all very good ones I think. In addition to
these, a bunch of American Funds, which have done quite well. At least she
got me regularly investing - that was worth the loads I paid. But I'm ready to
move on, thanks in no small part to what I'm learning here (thanks).
So she made you money, and you're moving on? Interesting..........
I'm an ungrateful bastard.

She also leaned on me hard and sold me a variable-life insurance policy
(a healthy single childless 40yo).

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 05:55 AM   #89
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEyles
Any opinions about MMBFX (MFS Muni Bond fund) ?

I got a BUNCH that a full-service advisor sold me (with 5% load)
by DCA during my more naive days in the 90s.

Seems to be yielding 4.86% with YTD rtn of 3.44%. This seems
pretty darn good given that it's tax-free.

Is there a good alternate you might prefer ? I can change it out
easily 'cause there's no capgain (or loss) to speak of, because the
substantial yield has all been DRIP'ed - and the frontend load is
water under the bridge !
I would keep the fund. For a broker sold fund the expenses are very low. In addition, despite its higher fees they have outperformed the comparable vanguard offerings.
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 06:18 AM   #90
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEyles
So she made you money, and you're moving on? Interesting..........

I'm an ungrateful bastard.

She also leaned on me hard and sold me a variable-life insurance policy
(a healthy single childless 40yo).
Definitely a good move. She'll be sorrry to see you go--you'll probably get calls.

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 06:47 AM   #91
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEyles
She also leaned on me hard and sold me a variable-life insurance policy
(a healthy single childless 40yo).
That's grounds for sending her to the firing squad right there.
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 07:35 AM   #92
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Not to throw Saluki under the bus, , but unless I'm missing something, MMBFX has trailed both VWLTX and VILPX in virtually every time period.

- Alec
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 10:32 AM   #93
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ats5g
Not to throw Saluki under the bus, , but unless I'm missing something, MMBFX has trailed both VWLTX and VILPX in virtually every time period.

- Alec
Hey, thats fine, throw me under the bus. Hell, if you look back a couple pages I mistook YTD returns for current yield!


I'm showing the MFS fund about 16bps ahead of VWLTX YTD according to the folks at M*

Portfolio wise, these four funds are different animals. The MFS fund has around 9% of its holdings in the BBB range where the vanguard funds keep it all in AA or AAA. There are some differences with avg maturity and duration between the four funds too.

I should restate my prior comments to say the following. This fund isn't a total dog. If you like it you shouldn't get rid of it just for the hell of it. That being said, you can lessen your chances of underperformance by choosing a lower cost fund.

(Edited to add that the MFS fund has a lower standard deviation by about 20-30% compared to the Vanguard funds)

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 12:45 PM   #94
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
I would keep the fund [MMBFX]. For a broker sold fund the expenses are very low. In addition, despite its higher fees they have outperformed the comparable vanguard offerings.
Hmm, looks like VWLTX has somewhat higher YTD return if not somewhat lower
current yield. Oh well, too late now - honestly, one reason I wanted to ditch
MMBFX is that the "basis history" is VERY complex, and I kinda want to try to
leave that behind instead of trying to figure it out in my dottering years (yeah,
in theory I can figure it out now and save the info).

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 07:38 PM   #95
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

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That's grounds for sending her to the firing squad right there.
Maybe not, if he's making $500,000 or more a year, and has "run out" of tax-deferred investing options...........
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 08:19 PM   #96
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

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Maybe not, if he's making $500,000 or more a year, and has "run out" of tax-deferred investing options...........
Not even then. VULs are such a ripoff that the hypothetical mark investor would be better off with a tax managed or regular index fund.
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-24-2006, 08:55 PM   #97
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEyles

She also leaned on me hard and sold me a variable-life insurance policy
(a healthy single childless 40yo).
From your description of her I guess I would let her lean on me too. But maybe I would demur on the variable-life, and just follow up on the leaning part.

Ha
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-25-2006, 02:24 PM   #98
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

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Originally Posted by HaHa
From your description of her I guess I would let her lean on me too. But maybe I would demur on the variable-life, and just follow up on the leaning part.

Ha
So, she was a "looker"

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-25-2006, 07:01 PM   #99
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

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So, she was a "looker"
No. Where are you guys getting this ?

And I don't make over $500K either ...

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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing
Old 10-26-2006, 02:27 PM   #100
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Re: Bond Funds? Question about Rational Investing

Quote:
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No. Where are you guys getting this ?

And I don't make over $500K either ...
Ok............
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