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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-01-2004, 01:52 PM   #21
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

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Hello Guest,

Wow. * First day at *home with the two kids for me today. *I'm taking a little family leave act time away from my job so my wife could go back to work and finish out the school year. *I wish you had posted earlier so my family could have benefited from your wisdom... *

Do you have anything else to add or did you just sign on to share your moronic rant with us?

Chris
Nope, nothing to add...I stand by my comments completely. Apparently a few others do as well...I sure wish I understood what it was you were trying to say though...

Certainly wasn't an attack on anyone in particular, I have no idea what anyones personal situation is here, and it wasn't directed at anyone...but trust me, I know plenty of people fir the description.

And trust me, it is much, much harder to raise kids full-time than to do just about any other regular job. It pays a lot less, you don't get sick days and not until they become adults themselves and have their own kids do they realize what you did for them...hopefully.

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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-01-2004, 03:53 PM   #22
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

My husband and I decided never to have children. I always knew I just wasn't suited to the job. Some people considered this selfish. I think it was sensible. Of course, we didn't contribute to the pool of new workers needed to pay our social security. But then again we might have produced a sociopath. We like having the dogs. As long as you use a friendly voice, you can say any number of nasty things to those animals with no adverse effects.

One does think about who will take care of you in your old age though. We have to figure that into our retirement budget.

Another thought on the kid thing. My husband has a friend that has long talked of getting a divorce. I think it hasn't happened because neither wants the primary responsibility for the children. Both work long and hard and neither has much time for the kids. Oddly, the kids seem to be turning out pretty good. Maybe it is because they have learned how to take care of themselves.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-01-2004, 05:00 PM   #23
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

Kids are adaptable. I respect those who chose not
to have children. After all, there is no people
shortage. For me though, I can't imagine life without
my children. I've done a lot. Nothing else even comes close.

John Galt
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-01-2004, 05:47 PM   #24
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

I had no interest in having kids. There was too much I wanted to do, and a kid sounded like an expensive messy anchor with a bad attitude.

As my wife approached 35, something pushed her fertility panic button. Long story short: we now have a 15 month-old kid just 24 months after retirement.

I'm having lots of fun, and it's turning out to be an interesting science experiment too. How many kids do you know being raised by *two* stay-at-home parents? She's a friggin' genius and a pretty funny comedian, and I'm sure it's not just good genes.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-01-2004, 07:11 PM   #25
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

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>>

...most of the higher income, 2 worker families I know sacrifice time with their kids, time with their spouses and time to kick back and relax, for a high paying job that simply lets them consume more and have a house full of shiny new crap....if kids were old enough to make an informed choice I would bet 99.5% of them would give up all that "stuff" to have at least one of the parents home all the time...
I agree 100%. In my line of work and as a parent I see plenty of this and it disturbs me. I can see at my child's playground after school which children crave the attention they do not receive at home by being obnoxious and bothering other kids. Kids with parental involvement tend to be more polite and do better in school than those whose parents are not interested or involved in their schooling. As important retiring early is to me, it is infinitely more important for me to raise a well balanced, polite, educated child. I could have easily planned to retire 10 years earlier by working more hours and weekends and having my wife work full-time, but I know my wife and I are making the right choice in spending all those extra hours with our child from the time he was born.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-01-2004, 07:24 PM   #26
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

Guest,

Choose your company well. You know what's better for someone elses kids. You know how 2 high income families spend their hard earned money (on shiny new crap). And you have these couples delusions figured out too. What else are you an expert on?

Suppose we'll need to disagree, because I also stand by my remarks.

Chris

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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-01-2004, 09:49 PM   #27
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

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As important retiring early is to me, it is infinitely more important for me to raise a well balanced, polite, educated child. *I could have easily planned to retire 10 years earlier by working more hours and weekends and *having my wife work full-time, but I know my wife and I are making the right choice in spending all those extra hours with our child from the time he was born.
Hi Saver to Spender,

I agree with you. Just one point based on my personal experience - the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive (ER and enough time for the kids). I have never worked more than 40 hours per week and my wife worked about 15. Most of her hours were done from home. I worked a total of 30 years and the last 24 *consisted of 10 hour days (4 per week). I retired at 51. Many things are possible with planning and luck.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 03:53 AM   #28
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

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Guest,

Choose your company well. *You know what's better for someone elses kids. *You know how 2 high income families spend their hard earned money (on shiny new crap). *And you have these couples delusions figured out too. *What else are you an expert on? *

Suppose we'll need to disagree, because I also stand by my remarks.

Chris
Well apparently you are the only one on the thread that agrees with you...I have a feeling you get that a lot. Some people can justify anything in their own mind. A quick persue thru a lot of your old posts tells me I am right.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 07:09 AM   #29
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

After our second child, I built a spreadsheet of all the monetary costs associated with my wife going back work. (daycare, transportation, clothes, etc.) The net was we were going to have an extra $100 a week. It was a real simple decision for us. She stayed home, I delivered pizza at night to make up the budget shortfall. I see way too many of my peers claiming they "have" to both work, yet they both drive BMW's and they live in a gated country club community.

I do think way too many of my peers (Gen X parents) have a distorted view of "necessity." 2 leased BMW's and a home in a gated country club community are not neccessities. I know many of them believe they are sacrificing by both working so they can maintain that lifestyle for their kids. Common sense tells me that the kids would be better off with one parent dedicated to parenting full time, even if they have to live in a more average neighborhood, and drive a domestic vehicle.

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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 07:18 AM   #30
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

I am loath to criticize those who are livin' large, even though I do believe their kids may suffer from it.
It would be inappropriate for me to throw any stones
as I lived the high consumption lifestyle for many years.
My kids all turned out great and the irony is that
one reason for my divorce was that my high maintenance wife refused to work. I never pushed it
when the kids were little though.

John Galt
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 08:01 AM   #31
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

I feel lucky to have been in a position to have my wife stay at home and care for our kids. I know this is a difficult decision for many parents, but I really do see a difference in the kids that have been raised with parents that have time for them and that usally means at least one stay at home parent. I live in a fairly afluent communicty and IMHO the majority of the families with both parents working at careers, seem more concerned with keeping up with the Jones than anything else. These parents often times saddle themselves with $400K+ mortgages to live in the big house and live high off the hog as COD noted, and its amazing that when one of the two income earners gets laid off, the for for sale signs go up quickly. It is not hard to draw a conclusion that many of these latch-key kids that are byproducts of such families are the ones getting in trouble at school, experiment with drugs/alcohol, etc... at an early age, and end up judging their peers, not by character, but by their possessions. No doubt its a tough world for kids to grow up in and I'm all for giving them the best chance to succeed in life and as a person.

Doug
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 11:36 AM   #32
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

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one reason for my divorce was that my high maintenance wife refused to work.
John,

I think she was hanging out here at the ER forum and we all convinced her not to!
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 02:44 PM   #33
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

I admire and respect a parent who makes a committment to stay home and raise their children. But with 1 out of 3 marriages ending in divorce (and in some regions of the country, 1 out of 2) the spouse that chooses not to work may be taking a huge risk to their own and their children's future finanical security. This is especially true if the parent has obtained some valuable career training or education and begun working their way up the corporate ladder before starting their family. The bright career prospects and lucrative salary may not be available after they've been away from office for several years.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 02:48 PM   #34
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

In my personal "region of the country" it was
1 out of 2

John Galt
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 03:05 PM   #35
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

John you are an enigma! Dysfunctional parents, an estranged brother, yet your own great kids, and a wife who refused to work. Maybe the wife had it right all along, staying home and raising the brood.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 03:23 PM   #36
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

Hi Zipper! Everyone has to figure out if they
"have it right" for themselves. As long as they don't
screw up my life, I pretty much am willing to let
everyone find their own way. You know the joke about
the middle-aged guy figuring out what he wants to be
"when he grows up"?? It's not a joke. For some people
it's a life long process. But, I digress. My ex. had many fine qualities and was an excellent mother.
Unfortunately, I could not live with her any more.
No regrets, and I will always have warm feelings for her.

John Galt
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 03:45 PM   #37
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

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You know the joke about
the middle-aged guy figuring out what he wants to be
"when he grows up"?? *It's not a joke.
I always knew that I wanted to be a Trout Fisherman when I grew up. The trouble was I could not figure out how to get paid for it.

So I kissed Corporate Butt for 25 years and studied investing.
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 04:06 PM   #38
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

So Cut-Throat...what do you plan on doing when you are a big boy? 8)
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-02-2004, 04:49 PM   #39
 
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

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So Cut-Throat...what do you plan on doing when you are a big boy? 8)

Well, mickeyd - I am a Big Boy now (well as big as I am going to get only 5'8" and 145 lbs.) *- So I don't have to plan much anymore.

I have arrived - I am a Trout Fisherman!
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?
Old 06-03-2004, 08:21 AM   #40
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Re: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

Guest,

No, I stand alone pretty infrequently. I'm guessing that this site has a different slice of demographics than I am typically exposed to. Standing alone makes me no less right in my own mind. Take from that what you will.

For the group to consider,

I finally have a few minutes to reply more in depth. I don't consider myself as a high earner, does this make guest's post less off-the-wall to me, no. To say that high income couples are derelict in parental duties by putting kids in daycare and lower earning couples are just doing what they need to do by putting the kids in daycare (and that's ok) seems ludicrous to me. Staying at home with the kids is a lifestyle choice and there isn't a right answer for all households (or for high earner or lower earner households).

I agree that all parents need to give their kids the attention they deserve/need. Can this be done when the kids go to daycare? Can this be done when the kids go to school (K-12)? Absolutely is the answer to both questions. A good daycare facility does much more than change diapers, give the kids food and drink, and keep the kids from hurting themselves. A good daycare provides social interaction, sensory and motor skills facilities, and it fosters creativity. Daycare facilities can also provide access to dance, art, and other instruction. These facilities are impractical at home. A good daycare also has a low student to teacher ratio so the kids get individual attention and care. Daycare workers are also not doing the laundry, cleaning the house, washing the car, or doing other house hold chores that chew up the daily schedule of a stay at home parent.

Having a stay at home parent can be a great way to raise kids. It isn't the only correct way to raise kids irrespective of income levels.

Enjoy your day.

Chris
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