BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

[newellcr]

Guest,

Choose your company well. You know what's better for someone elses kids. You know how 2 high income families spend their hard earned money (on shiny new crap). And you have these couples delusions figured out too. What else are you an expert on?

Suppose we'll need to disagree, because I also stand by my remarks.

Chris

 

[Bob_Smith]

As important retiring early is to me, it is infinitely more important for me to raise a well balanced, polite, educated child.  I could have easily planned to retire 10 years earlier by working more hours and weekends and  having my wife work full-time, but I know my wife and I are making the right choice in spending all those extra hours with our child from the time he was born.

Hi Saver to Spender,

I agree with you. Just one point based on my personal experience - the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive (ER and enough time for the kids). I have never worked more than 40 hours per week and my wife worked about 15. Most of her hours were done from home. I worked a total of 30 years and the last 24  consisted of 10 hour days (4 per week). I retired at 51. Many things are possible with planning and luck.

 

[guest]

Guest,

Choose your company well.  You know what's better for someone elses kids.  You know how 2 high income families spend their hard earned money (on shiny new crap).  And you have these couples delusions figured out too.  What else are you an expert on?  

Suppose we'll need to disagree, because I also stand by my remarks.

Chris

Well apparently you are the only one on the thread that agrees with you...I have a feeling you get that a lot. Some people can justify anything in their own mind. A quick persue thru a lot of your old posts tells me I am right.

 

[COD]

After our second child, I built a spreadsheet of all the monetary costs associated with my wife going back work. (daycare, transportation, clothes, etc.) The net was we were going to have an extra $100 a week. It was a real simple decision for us. She stayed home, I delivered pizza at night to make up the budget shortfall. I see way too many of my peers claiming they "have" to both work, yet they both drive BMW's and they live in a gated country club community.

I do think way too many of my peers (Gen X parents) have a distorted view of "necessity." 2 leased BMW's and a home in a gated country club community are not neccessities. I know many of them believe they are sacrificing by both working so they can maintain that lifestyle for their kids. Common sense tells me that the kids would be better off with one parent dedicated to parenting full time, even if they have to live in a more average neighborhood, and drive a domestic vehicle.

 

[John Galt]

I am loath to criticize those who are livin' large, even though I do believe their kids may suffer from it.
It would be inappropriate for me to throw any stones
as I lived the high consumption lifestyle for many years.
My kids all turned out great and the irony is that
one reason for my divorce was that my high maintenance wife refused to work. I never pushed it
when the kids were little though.

John Galt

 

[eytonxav]

I feel lucky to have been in a position to have my wife stay at home and care for our kids. I know this is a difficult decision for many parents, but I really do see a difference in the kids that have been raised with parents that have time for them and that usally means at least one stay at home parent. I live in a fairly afluent communicty and IMHO the majority of the families with both parents working at careers, seem more concerned with keeping up with the Jones than anything else. These parents often times saddle themselves with $400K+ mortgages to live in the big house and live high off the hog as COD noted, and its amazing that when one of the two income earners gets laid off, the for for sale signs go up quickly. It is not hard to draw a conclusion that many of these latch-key kids that are byproducts of such families are the ones getting in trouble at school, experiment with drugs/alcohol, etc... at an early age, and end up judging their peers, not by character, but by their possessions. No doubt its a tough world for kids to grow up in and I'm all for giving them the best chance to succeed in life and as a person.

Doug

 

[Cut-Throat]

one reason for my divorce was that my high maintenance wife refused to work.

John,

I think she was hanging out here at the ER forum and we all convinced her not to!

 

[sgeeeee]

I admire and respect a parent who makes a committment to stay home and raise their children. But with 1 out of 3 marriages ending in divorce (and in some regions of the country, 1 out of 2) the spouse that chooses not to work may be taking a huge risk to their own and their children's future finanical security. This is especially true if the parent has obtained some valuable career training or education and begun working their way up the corporate ladder before starting their family. The bright career prospects and lucrative salary may not be available after they've been away from office for several years.

 

[John Galt]

In my personal "region of the country" it was
1 out of 2

John Galt

 

[Zipper]

John you are an enigma! Dysfunctional parents, an estranged brother, yet your own great kids, and a wife who refused to work. Maybe the wife had it right all along, staying home and raising the brood.

 

[John Galt]

Hi Zipper! Everyone has to figure out if they
"have it right" for themselves. As long as they don't
screw up my life, I pretty much am willing to let
everyone find their own way. You know the joke about
the middle-aged guy figuring out what he wants to be
"when he grows up"?? It's not a joke. For some people
it's a life long process. But, I digress. My ex. had many fine qualities and was an excellent mother.
Unfortunately, I could not live with her any more.
No regrets, and I will always have warm feelings for her.

John Galt

 

[Cut-Throat]

You know the joke about
the middle-aged guy figuring out what he wants to be
"when he grows up"??  It's not a joke.

I always knew that I wanted to be a Trout Fisherman when I grew up. The trouble was I could not figure out how to get paid for it.

So I kissed Corporate Butt for 25 years and studied investing.

 

[mickeyd]

So Cut-Throat...what do you plan on doing when you are a big boy? 8)

 

[Cut-Throat]

So Cut-Throat...what do you plan on doing when you are a big boy? 8)

Well, mickeyd - I am a Big Boy now (well as big as I am going to get only 5'8" and 145 lbs.)  - So I don't have to plan much anymore.

I have arrived - I am a Trout Fisherman!

 

[newellcr]

Guest,

No, I stand alone pretty infrequently. I'm guessing that this site has a different slice of demographics than I am typically exposed to. Standing alone makes me no less right in my own mind. Take from that what you will.

For the group to consider,

I finally have a few minutes to reply more in depth. I don't consider myself as a high earner, does this make guest's post less off-the-wall to me, no. To say that high income couples are derelict in parental duties by putting kids in daycare and lower earning couples are just doing what they need to do by putting the kids in daycare (and that's ok) seems ludicrous to me. Staying at home with the kids is a lifestyle choice and there isn't a right answer for all households (or for high earner or lower earner households).

I agree that all parents need to give their kids the attention they deserve/need. Can this be done when the kids go to daycare? Can this be done when the kids go to school (K-12)? Absolutely is the answer to both questions. A good daycare facility does much more than change diapers, give the kids food and drink, and keep the kids from hurting themselves. A good daycare provides social interaction, sensory and motor skills facilities, and it fosters creativity. Daycare facilities can also provide access to dance, art, and other instruction. These facilities are impractical at home. A good daycare also has a low student to teacher ratio so the kids get individual attention and care. Daycare workers are also not doing the laundry, cleaning the house, washing the car, or doing other house hold chores that chew up the daily schedule of a stay at home parent.

Having a stay at home parent can be a great way to raise kids. It isn't the only correct way to raise kids irrespective of income levels.

Enjoy your day.

Chris

 

[Nords]

Re:  Well said, Chris.

I never had any complaints about childcare while I was working 60-hour weeks. Or while I was deployed to the Western Pacific. I had a lot of other complaints, but not about childcare.

Staying at home with the kids is also nice, if you're the kind of person who likes to be home with the kids and if you're capable of doing a conscientious job. I've seen families whose kids should've been nominated for 24-hour childcare until their "parents" completed requalification & proficiency training.

It is nice to be ER'd and always available as my kid enters the "danger years" of middle/high school. (I'm sure my kid just gives peer-pressure lip service to a somewhat diametrically different opinion while secretly enjoying my constant presence.) No doubt things will improve once the neighborhood kids are all driving & dating each other...

John, I haven't decided IF I'm going to grow up yet, let alone when or what I'm going to be!

 

[Theo]

Childcare is an interesting topic for me at this point of my life. At age 34 and wife 31 we're both planning to have children and purchase a home in the same year. Not too easy in north jersey.

In my situation, I earn a bit more than the typical household by myself. My wife make two and half times as much as me, though, which is good if you can get it...

I've offered to stay home an take care of the kids as my wife continues to work, but she has refused this option. If anyone is going to be home to take care of the kids, it's going to be her, apparantly. I'm getting the feeling she either don't trust me or doesn't feel a man's place is in the home.

So the likely solution seems to be childcare, as my wife is my gravytrain to ER, so she's definitely not going to stop working anytime soon. 8)

 

[Jarhead*]

Theo:

I hope for the rest of us, and for your potential children, you'll reconsider your decision to have children. (At least in your case).
You mentioned that your wife is your ticket to ER, and that I "guess that means child care, as your wife is not going to quit working just because she has children.
You are obviously not mature enough to handle the very real responsibility of bringing children into the world.
I hope for your wife and your childrens sake that she reconsiders the situation until you grow up.

 

[Jarhead*]

toRe: BOOMERS = MARKET CRASH?

GDER:

Your post brought a smile to my face. You can be justifiably proud of what you have accomplished for your wife and children.
Please check out my recent post to "Theo" regarding the 180 degree opposite of your situation.
The older I get, the less patience I have with self-centered attitudes. (With the exception of TH, because he makes me laugh).

 

[wabmester]

Wow, this topic really brings out the best in people :-/

Perversely, I enjoy getting my head chewed off occasionally, so here's some bait:

Kids are amazingly robust. I seriously doubt that a little dose of adversity is bad for kids, and daycare doesn't strike me as the worst thing that can happen to a kid.

I assume that the people here who are smart enough to retire early (or smart enough to aspire to retire early) are also smart enough to raise good kids. There may be people who deserve to be counseled against having kids, but I seriously doubt any of them post here.

 

[nfs]

I assume that the people here who are smart enough to retire early (or smart enough to aspire to retire early) are also smart enough to raise good kids.

If you can pile up enough to FIRE, affluenza can also be a problem.

 

[Nords]

Re:  Rich & unhappy?  Write a book.

Sorry, Jarhead, I'm with Wab on this one. I wouldn't give too much credibility to the carefully-laid plans of those who aren't parents yet, though, since the reality of night feedings and fussy babies has yet to smack them upside their heads. Kids have a way of completely realigning our priorities, probably making us into better people, and at-home spouses earn far more than money. I wouldn't begrudge anyone the opportunity to become a good parent, however they decide to do it. Kids don't know what they're "missing" and they grow up just fine despite of our attempts to raise them.

Our kid, a childcare veteran since the age of six weeks, dealt with most of life's viruses & communicable diseases before starting elementary school. This opportunity is hard to come by when you're raised at home. The kid hasn't missed a schoolday yet and is proud of a perfect attendance record. My comments about needing to cut school to spend more time surfing with Dad are met with shocked indignation.

I'm currently plowing through "Navigating the Dark Side of Wealth" by Thayer Cheatham Willis, heir to the Georgia-Pacific Company founders. A little too spiritual & too much psychobabble, but plenty of scary stories of very business/money-smart people who apparently neglected to teach their kids about same.

My favorite was the young heiress who stormed out of the house to make her own way (despite Dad's threats to "cut her off") and worked four jobs to make ends meet. Next year she collected up her W-2s, learned how to do her taxes (her first time), and sent the return to the IRS. Unbeknownst to her, the family CPA had also sent in "her" tax return reflecting her K-1 trust income that Dad was "holding". Of course the IRS immediately (& gleefully) audited the entire family and the legal costs rose into the thousands. Dad learned his lesson; he & daughter arrived at a reconciliation shortly afterward.

"Affluenza" (by John De Graaf, David Wann and Thomas H. Naylor) is next on my list. Anyone read it yet? Clearly the best thing we can do for our kids is to educate them on how to make their own money, let them earn their own independent fortunes, and then make sure there's nothing left of ours to inherit.

 

[Theo]

Boy some people!!

Well I may have had a little fun, but I fail to see where I have been immature. my wife being my ticket to ER was intended as a joke for those suffering from a humor deficiency.

In any case, my wife grew up with a stay at home mom and both her parents beat her mercilessly until she was in her mid-teens (for what it's worth she says she deserved it) ... My mother stayed home till I was five or so and my father was always home since he was a college professor and had flexible work hours.

I don't think I'm much better off than my wife, despite not getting the daily beatdown, and think perhaps we both just might have been better off in child care ourselves.

More joking. In any case, our day care may turn out to be my mother-in-law. Not sure how I feel about that at this point, but she seems to have mellowed.

 

[John Galt]

Hello GDER! Just today I signed and mailed the
income tax return for my little holding company.
This is a leftover from my working life and will likely
outlive me. Anyway, as I was reviewing the return
it came to me that I might be able to sell the company
if I could find the right buyer. I quickly rejected that
idea though as I kind of enjoy putzing with it (kind of
like unclemick and his hobby stocks). It's doing well
and I have fun with it. It's a win-win deal.
Otherwise, I agree with you about working, i.e.
"Just say no!"

John Galt