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06-25-2016, 12:21 PM
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#21
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Lover
The Brexit vote was also about leaving a failing socialist union and regaining independence and control over their own future.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YVRRocketSurgery
That's definitely a core issue but so is the need for making concessions in a globalization economy vs independence.
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Two often competing interests...
Seems to me it's better to engage in dialogue/negotiation to hash out compromises. I worry about minorities all over the world being unrepresented/ignored/abused by their current governments, but dividing the world into ever smaller pieces has its own set of problems.
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Have Funds, Will Retire
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06-25-2016, 12:50 PM
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#22
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 4,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR
Seems to me it's better to engage in dialogue/negotiation to hash out compromises. I worry about minorities all over the world being unrepresented/ignored/abused by their current governments, but dividing the world into ever smaller pieces has its own set of problems.
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+1
I think that many of those who voted for Brexit didn't fully think it out. The UK will need to renegotiate with the EU, as result of which, they will inevitably have to agree to certain levels of immigration they other wise would not, in order to retain other benefits. You have to give something in order to get something.
In our modern world, pulling up the drawbridges is not an option.
__________________
Contentedly ER, with 3 furry friends (now, sadly, 1).
Planning my escape to the wide open spaces in my campervan (with my remaining kitty, of course!)
On a mission to become the world's second most boring man.
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06-25-2016, 01:16 PM
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#23
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tenerife
Posts: 67
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I am British, and no matter how much I want it, the petition will not overturn the vote. The PM has resigned and things are already moving toward exit.
The petition has 2.000.000+ signatures now. But it is not going to change anything, even though referendums are not legally binding and that parliament can't reject the result if it wants (hypothetically).
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06-25-2016, 01:27 PM
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#24
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Williston, FL
Posts: 3,925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YVRRocketSurgery
That's definitely a core issue but so is the need for making concessions in a globalization economy vs independence.
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Translate "making concessions" to paying more for others that are not paying as much as you are (Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, immigrants, etc.)
__________________
FIRE no later than 7/5/2016 at 56 (done), securing '16 401K match (done), getting '15 401K match (done), LTI Bonus (done), Perf bonus (done), maxing out 401K (done), picking up 1,000 hours to get another year of pension (done), July 1st benefits (vacation day, healthcare) (done), July 4th holiday. 0 days left. (done) OFFICIALLY RETIRED 7/5/2016!!
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06-25-2016, 01:44 PM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Utrecht
Posts: 2,650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh
That does sound reasonable, but there is no provision for a revote in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.
Article 50
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Yes, and there is the small matter of the counterpart saying "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out".
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06-25-2016, 01:52 PM
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#27
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bushnell
Posts: 607
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Instead of working to overturn the will of the people and dismissing a decision that was made fairly and peacefully, why don't the Remain people and the EU spend some time trying understand why so many people wanted to Leave? Seems to me like this is an appropriate time to consider some necessary reforms.
Europe's economy has been pretty stagnant in recent years, unemployment rate remains high, labor participation rates have declined, the Euro is weak, negative interest rates in many of the member countries.
When I was growing up, everyone talked about the West German economic miracle. What happened? The EU format was supposed to unleash an era of economic growth, prosperity and innovation, but that doesn't seem to have happened. Why not?
Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
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06-25-2016, 01:56 PM
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#28
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truenorth418
When I was growing up, everyone talked about the West German economic miracle. What happened? The EU format was supposed to unleash an era of economic growth, prosperity and innovation, but that doesn't seem to have happened. Why not?
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Spenders changing into savers or savers changing into spenders does not happen quickly. Nor do changes in other habits.
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06-25-2016, 02:06 PM
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#29
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tenerife
Posts: 67
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06-25-2016, 02:09 PM
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#30
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by languagefan
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06-25-2016, 02:26 PM
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#31
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 4,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by languagefan
I am British, and no matter how much I want it, the petition will not overturn the vote. The PM has resigned and things are already moving toward exit.
The petition has 2.000.000+ signatures now. But it is not going to change anything, even though referendums are not legally binding and that parliament can't reject the result if it wants (hypothetically).
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What if it takes a few months before a new PM is installed, and Parliament gets around to voting to trigger Article 50? If the new PM is not as ardently pro-leave (in other words, not Boris), the market has seriously tanked, and the general economy is showing signs of being affected, the general population might be secretly relieved if a new PM were to don Superman underpants and "pull them back from the precipice". It might even be considered politically expedient for a new PM to do so.
I am not very knowledgeable in this area, so it may be naive of me to even be thinking this. However, if we pull out and start negotiations, the UK could very likely end up with many of the same rights, fees, and concessions as before, except without a say in how EU regulations are written (think Norway). I suppose that with this option, the politicians can then say to their followers, "Look - we got you out of the EU!" while effectively still being in the EU.
I am so worried that I am attracting Porky with this kind of talk.
__________________
Contentedly ER, with 3 furry friends (now, sadly, 1).
Planning my escape to the wide open spaces in my campervan (with my remaining kitty, of course!)
On a mission to become the world's second most boring man.
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06-25-2016, 02:39 PM
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#32
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019
What? Texas is leaving?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR
That would be "Texit"...
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There's always been that independent band of Texits wanting to leave.
I'm not sure where they'd go...
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06-25-2016, 02:46 PM
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#33
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 4,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steady saver
There's always been that independent band of Texits wanting to leave.
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I find the made-up words amusing. Since Brexit, we have also learned about the potential for Frexit, Nexit, Dexit, Auxit, and Grexit (again).
It seems quite cutesy, in a European sort of a way
__________________
Contentedly ER, with 3 furry friends (now, sadly, 1).
Planning my escape to the wide open spaces in my campervan (with my remaining kitty, of course!)
On a mission to become the world's second most boring man.
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06-25-2016, 02:55 PM
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#34
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tenerife
Posts: 67
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Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom
What if it takes a few months before a new PM is installed, and Parliament gets around to voting to trigger Article 50? If the new PM is not as ardently pro-leave (in other words, not Boris), the market has seriously tanked, and the general economy is showing signs of being affected, the general population might be secretly relieved if a new PM were to don Superman underpants and "pull them back from the precipice". It might even be considered politically expedient for a new PM to do so.
I am not very knowledgeable in this area, so it may be naive of me to even be thinking this. However, if we pull out and start negotiations, the UK could very likely end up with many of the same rights, fees, and concessions as before, except without a say in how EU regulations are written (think Norway). I suppose that with this option, the politicians can then say to their followers, "Look - we got you out of the EU!" while effectively still being in the EU.
I am so worried that I am attracting Porky with this kind of talk.
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Very unlikely scenario. This needs a whole parliament going radical to vote against the referendum (which is not legally binding).
I guess Cameron should have not resigned so quickly, and waited a bit longer to see the aftereffects like the petition of more than 2,000,000 people who are antiBrexit.
It's over to my opinion.
I was proBrexit theoretically as EU Is undemocratic institution where the unelected rich rule over elected ministers of EU countries. Yet I woke up today feeling smaller missing the sense of unity and brotherhood I had with fellow EU citizens (I am an expat living in Spain). Also I will lose the right to move, live and work in other EU countries without immigration and hassle of paperwork. I am now like an American or Russian when it comes to immigration to other Eu countries.
When I move to Spain 6 years ago, I flashed my passport and my permanent residency permit was printed out in 1 minute. That is history now!
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06-25-2016, 03:59 PM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: the prairies
Posts: 5,045
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Why should a petition of 2 million people override the 17 million that voted to leave? Are we to believe that all of those 2 million on the petition are people that originally voted no and have since had regrets, or are they just a bunch of unhappy no voters muddying the waters?
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06-25-2016, 04:36 PM
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#36
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Lover
Why should a petition of 2 million people override the 17 million that voted to leave? Are we to believe that all of those 2 million on the petition are people that originally voted no and have since had regrets, or are they just a bunch of unhappy no voters muddying the waters?
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As I understand it, "official" petitions that gather 100,000+ signatures trigger a parliamentary debate. That may or may not result in another vote.
I'm sure they'll figure it out without my help...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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06-25-2016, 05:42 PM
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#37
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Lover
Why should a petition of 2 million people override the 17 million that voted to leave? Are we to believe that all of those 2 million on the petition are people that originally voted no and have since had regrets, or are they just a bunch of unhappy no voters muddying the waters?
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Or if they are British, and indeed whether they even exist as living entities.
__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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06-25-2016, 05:44 PM
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#38
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northern Ohio
Posts: 3,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Tom
I find the made-up words amusing. Since Brexit, we have also learned about the potential for Frexit, Nexit, Dexit, Auxit, and Grexit (again).
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I thought Czech-out and Departugal were clever...
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06-25-2016, 05:48 PM
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#39
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
It was a 48 to 52 vote. No matter what way you go, you irritate ~50% of the people. It's a no-win no matter what.
The easy street is to stay and keep Britain (or whatever country it is morphing into) in the EU.
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If you throw out Northern Ireland and Scotland the vote was much higher on the exit side... and there is already talk of another vote for Scotland to leave and the Irish are talking about a vote to reunify....
I think England will be out no matter what... almost the whole country voted that way except for London....
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06-25-2016, 05:50 PM
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#40
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
I think England will be out no matter what... almost the whole country voted that way except for London....
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There have been calls for London to secede from Britain to remain the the EU......Lexit? Or Lentrance?
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