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Old 04-11-2011, 10:30 PM   #181
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I'm ok with the long term budgetary impact of the ladies' TP consumption.
I immediately noticed the decrease in paper products spending when my wife left.

Also, a decrease in my vodka purchases. Aiyii!

Ha
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:49 PM   #182
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I've installed one of those portable bidet on my commode and it was the best investment ever. TP use is not much since I live alone but I end up using the whole roll or more after Friday night of drinking cheap beer at the VFW. With bidet, it just once dry off and done.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:04 PM   #183
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I've installed one of those portable bidet on my commode and it was the best investment ever. TP use is not much since I live alone but I end up using the whole roll or more after Friday night of drinking cheap beer at the VFW. With bidet, it just once dry off and done.
You might save even more if you migrated to good wine or whiskey. Beer that gives you that much trouble could not be very good for you, could it?

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Old 04-11-2011, 11:08 PM   #184
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You might save even more if you migrated to good wine or whiskey. Beer that gives you that much trouble could not be very good for you, could it?

Ha
Thanks for the suggestion, Ha. But I like beer. I do drink whiskey on the occasion and wine once in a blue moon if I go out on a blind date that my friends set up for me. But mostly beer and sometimes boiler makers.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:31 AM   #185
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Not included in these quotes of annual expenditures were mortgage payments (they go away if I choose to pay off the mortgage), child care expenses (not necessary when I ER), and student loan payments (during ER, I think I will qualify as low income so as to avoid paying most or all of these loans).
Does this mean you intend to ER without having repaid your student loans and to avoid paying them at all? Or am I reading this wrong?
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:39 AM   #186
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A reference to another thread might help.
Student Loans - Income Based Repayment?
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:31 PM   #187
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I immediately noticed the decrease in paper products spending when my wife left.

Also, a decrease in my vodka purchases. Aiyii!

Ha
I do find I spend a lot on vodka too. For my wife. Guess that is a statement about me more than her...
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:34 PM   #188
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Does this mean you intend to ER without having repaid your student loans and to avoid paying them at all? Or am I reading this wrong?
Yes, you are correct. I may pay a small portion of them, but probably nowhere near half the principal. And the interest is already way below market: 0.75% fixed. Thanks US taxpayers! But before anyone criticizes, realize that my kids won't be eligible for many of these taxpayer subsidized loans in college since I am too wealthy to qualify.

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A reference to another thread might help.
Student Loans - Income Based Repayment?
Thanks for the link! That's the plan. I'm going back and forth about whether to start the 25 year clock running now or wait. If I work 10 more years in the current job (not the plan), they also forgive all debts since it is public sector.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:10 PM   #189
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Yes, you are correct. I may pay a small portion of them, but probably nowhere near half the principal. And the interest is already way below market: 0.75% fixed. Thanks US taxpayers! But before anyone criticizes, realize that my kids won't be eligible for many of these taxpayer subsidized loans in college since I am too wealthy to qualify.
I won't criticize you for your decision but I think it's safe to criticize the system that encourages allows it. Small wonder the country is broke.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:18 PM   #190
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I won't criticize you for your decision but I think it's safe to criticize the system that encourages allows it. Small wonder the country is broke.
Agreed. I personally think the policy is ridiculous that we can borrow hundreds of thousands and not worry a whole heck of a lot about ever repaying it. But thems the breaks, and this is one of the very few social welfare benefits that I can take advantage of.

I will say that I invested a significant portion of the student loan borrowing over the 2001-2006 period, so that has probably produced positive returns by now (versus carrying costs of under 1%, all tax deductible).
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:21 PM   #191
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I don't think all student loans are the type that could be forgiven by government work and I don't think all goverment work qualifies to forgive them.

I can't imagine not repaying debts that enabled me and my family to live a better life. Good luck.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:42 PM   #192
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Agreed. I personally think the policy is ridiculous that we can borrow hundreds of thousands and not worry a whole heck of a lot about ever repaying it. But thems the breaks, and this is one of the very few social welfare benefits that I can take advantage of.

I will say that I invested a significant portion of the student loan borrowing over the 2001-2006 period, so that has probably produced positive returns by now (versus carrying costs of under 1%, all tax deductible).
Would it be accurate to say that your intent is to obey the letter of the law while seemingly violating the spirit of the law? And you are a lawyer? And you didn't even need the money? And you seem to be proud of yourself? I think I'll go take a shower.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:54 PM   #193
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I don't think all student loans are the type that could be forgiven by government work and I don't think all goverment work qualifies to forgive them.
My federal student loans qualify for debt forgiveness. I think private loans and some other types of federal loans (parent PLUS loans??) don't qualify. And my government employment qualifies. Or at least it seems to qualify. There is no way of knowing until 10 years later per the current rules.

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I can't imagine not repaying debts that enabled me and my family to live a better life. Good luck.
I think the program is ridiculous and I don't understand why taxpayer money is used to fund the program. Additionally, I don't know why government and non-profit workers are singled out to have to pay even LESS on their student loans. But since I'm paying for this nonsense and plenty of other nonsense, I am certainly going to avail myself of the benefit of it when I can. It is either that or work longer for the benefit of anonymous "others". Time is a resource I choose not to squander.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:04 PM   #194
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Would it be accurate to say that your intent is to obey the letter of the law while seemingly violating the spirit of the law? And you are a lawyer? And you didn't even need the money? And you seem to be proud of yourself? I think I'll go take a shower.
You can call it whatever you want. Letter, spirit, etc. Law does not imply morality.

Would you feel better about this if I said I was not retiring, but rather I have decided to pursue my life's calling as an artist/writer/poet/[insert title of low paying fun profession here]? And that I anticipate my income to be so low (since society doesn't value my creative talents highly) that I will not be able to repay my loans, hence my last resort is to repay my loans according to a government program designed to help those with low incomes? What, are you saying I can't choose to be an artist/writer/poet/[insert title of low paying fun profession here]? This is America!

Am I a lawyer? I am not currently an active member of any State Bars.

Proud? I guess I'm happy that I finally get some payola from some crazy government program. I doubt I'll get much out of other social programs I'm currently paying for (medicare, SS particularly). So I'm just gettin mine while the getting is good. I am most certainly not proud of our system that leaks money like a sieve.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:08 PM   #195
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Wow.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:09 PM   #196
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Wow.
+1
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:22 PM   #197
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Anybody here do Cash for Clunkers? Anybody get tax credits for energy efficiency home improvements or hybrid/electric car purchases? Anybody get the Homebuyer's tax credit? Anybody ever send their kids to state universities when they could afford to pay full price at private schools? Anybody ever file for social security benefits or medicare benefits even though they have ample income to support themselves in perpetuity?

Because I would certainly hope that members of a forum, the majority of which are millionaires, would not take advantage of government programs unless they really needed them.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:41 PM   #198
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.

I will say that I invested a significant portion of the student loan borrowing over the 2001-2006 period, so that has probably produced positive returns by now (versus carrying costs of under 1%, all tax deductible).

Are you saying that you actually made money on the student loans by investing the money you do not want to repay ?
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:47 PM   #199
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I believe the blowback you are getting is from the idea that you are walking away from a debt commitment that you made - which in the other government programs you mentioned are not the case, and you profited from that action, beyond the original intent of the program.

It's similar to walking away from a note/mortgage on a home you purchased "just because you can", even though you may be able to continue to make the payments and the home continues to meet yours and your family’s needs.

Just because you can, doesn’t necessarily mean you should IMHO. There are moral reasons to "just say no" sometimes. Or if you choose not to, not brag how you seem to be "gaming the system".

I'll let others speak for themselves, if they wish.
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:08 PM   #200
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Are you saying that you actually made money on the student loans by investing the money you do not want to repay ?
Yes, I made money on the portion of the loans that I invested instead of boozing it up with law school classmates. I went to a taxpayer subsidized law school and received some taxpayer funded grants as well, so tuition just didn't require that much money, hence I invested the rest. I also got numerous high paying jobs during the summers of law school. And I started an engineering consulting biz during law school that I made a decent amount of money at (for a college student).


I mean, I really really want to repay the debt, but I don't want to work an extra 6-12 months to do so. Especially since I have found a government program that will allow me to pursue my dreams without repaying my loans in full!
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