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Bush proposes first $3 trillion budget
Old 02-04-2008, 07:41 AM   #1
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Bush proposes first $3 trillion budget

USA Today article - Bush proposes first $3 trillion budget

Bush proposes first $3 trillion budget - USATODAY.com

Excerpt from the article

The $3 trillion Bush's proposes spending in 2009 would be the first time that milestone has been reached. Bush also presided over the first budget to hit $2 trillion, in 2002. It took the government nearly 200 years to reach the first $1 trillion budget, which occurred in 1987 during the Reagan administration.

End of excerpt.

Are the Repubicans now just as bad as the Democrats when they have bought into the idea that spending and bigger government are ways to solve our nation's problems? Both parties are guilty of spend, spend, spend.

Like always the American taxpayer will pick up the debt.

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Old 02-04-2008, 09:39 AM   #2
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The combined monetary cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may reach 1 trillion dollars by the end of 2009.

Free Preview - WSJ.com
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:41 AM   #3
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Well, a trillion just doesn't go as far as it used to...

edit: Biggest losers are Medicare, Health and Human Services and then domestic appropriations (reading the sidebar). What falls under domestic appropriations?
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:54 AM   #4
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Well, a trillion just doesn't go as far as it used to...

edit: Biggest losers are Medicare, Health and Human Services and then domestic appropriations (reading the sidebar). What falls under domestic appropriations?
All this reminds me of a song by the GREAT MERLE HAGGARD - Are The Good Times Really Over



At times the funding for the Veteran's Adminstration has fallen under the domestic spending umbrella in the terms of inadequate funding and cuts. I hope that this it not the case this time.

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Old 02-04-2008, 09:54 AM   #5
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USA Today article - Bush proposes first $3 trillion budget

Bush proposes first $3 trillion budget - USATODAY.com

Excerpt from the article

The $3 trillion Bush's proposes spending in 2009 would be the first time that milestone has been reached. Bush also presided over the first budget to hit $2 trillion, in 2002. It took the government nearly 200 years to reach the first $1 trillion budget, which occurred in 1987 during the Reagan administration.

End of excerpt.

Are the Repubicans now just as bad as the Democrats when they have bought into the idea that spending and bigger government are ways to solve our nation's problems? Both parties are guilty of spend, spend, spend.

Like always the American taxpayer will pick up the debt.

GOD BLESS US ALL
Is the problem the politicians, or is it the voters?

I'd like to have an annual national referendum where the voters put a cap on federal spending. In fact, I'd like to set individual caps for the 6-10 major components of the budget (defense, medicare, etc).

By doing this every year, I think the voters would quickly understand the big ideas of how much we spend and where we spend it. They would also set the overall priorities, which seems to be something that should happen if we believe in self-government.

So I think this would give us a better democracy. But I'm not sure that the voters would spend any less than Congress.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:57 AM   #6
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As this is being written the outstanding U.S. debt is $9,243,601,974,814.03. This will be a real challenge to pay this tab.


U.S. National Debt Clock
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:04 AM   #7
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I know I shouldn't be, but I was amazed by the president's hypocracy. Just a few days before submitting this budget, the president was berating congress for their lack of fiscal discipline.
Earmarks should be made illegal and a forced cap on budgets should be in place.
What interest do we pay on the federal debt? Even 1% would be almost 100 billion?!?!
Fire all the members of congress, and put people that have to balance their own budgets in their place
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:05 AM   #8
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Didn't the legislation regarding prescription drugs for seniors and a bunch of Medicare promises help boost that number?

It's easy to pick on the wars we are fighting as the only cause, but there must be more there..........
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:06 AM   #9
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I know I shouldn't be, but I was amazed by the president's hypocracy. Just a few days before submitting this budget, the president was berating congress for their lack of fiscal discipline.
Earmarks should be made illegal and a forced cap on budgets should be in place.
What interest do we pay on the federal debt? Even 1% would be almost 100 billion?!?!
Fire all the members of congress, and put people that have to balance their own budgets in their place
I think the Senate needs an overhaul, what's the avergae age, 100 years old??
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:07 AM   #10
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Is the problem the politicians, or is it the voters?
That's a chicken and egg problem... we elected the foxes that we wanted guarding our henhouse.

At this point, we spend an estimated $620 billion dollars on defense. That's almost half of what the entire world spends (China is second at an estimated $65 billion). Even when someone tries to do something rational (like the pentagon finally thinking that it's time to cancel the C-17 project), someone else fights it (Congress indicated they would not be happy if the Pentagon cancelled the program, there's too much spending in too many states on this program and no one wants to lose the money or jobs).

At some level, the numbers are just too much to rationally fathom.

The numbers to keep in mind to help from being overwhelmed are budget as a percentage of GDP and deficit increase. If those aren't going up, then we're fine for a while longer, in my opinion (the party seems like it should be over at some point and we'd better be ready to bring spending down accordingly at that point)
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:12 AM   #11
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As this is being written the outstanding U.S. debt is $9,243,601,974,814.03. This will be a real challenge to pay this tab.
Now, I hate the debt as much as anyone, but I have kind of been mulling this a bit. I wonder what percentage is financed by foreign entities (other countries) and what percentage is financed by domestic entities (Joe American with their fist full of treasuries). And, does domestic debt matter as much in the grand scheme of things as foreign debt?

I'm not sure if I can articulate an opinion yet.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:15 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Retire Soon View Post
As this is being written the outstanding U.S. debt is $9,243,601,974,814.03. This will be a real challenge to pay this tab.
U.S. National Debt Clock
Does the above number include off the budget debt?

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Image:US Public debt per GDP 1791-2006.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US empire is on the decline and the reasons are no different than those in the past. Just look at the Roman empire.
Overextended milatarily
Poor and limited leadership (US only has two parties to choose from. The UK for example has more to select a qualified candidate.)
Debased their currency
Large public works and free bread programs drained the economy

I think those that are about 52 now should be OK before the bill comes due.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:33 AM   #13
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I think those that are about 52 now should be OK before the bill comes due.
Thanks, Dex I must be safe then.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:49 AM   #14
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Here's another article
CNN money article - Bush unveils $3.1 trillion budget
The proposed budget would be the largest one-year expenditure in history; seeks increase in military spending and protection of tax cuts.

Bush unveils $3.1 trillion budget proposal with tax cuts - Feb. 4, 2008

Excerpts from the artilcle

But Democrats said that forecast was based on flawed math that only included $70 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2009 and no money after that and also failed to include any provisions after this year for keeping the alternative minimum tax, originally aimed at the wealthy, from ensnaring millions of middle-class taxpayers. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that fixing the AMT in 2012 would cost $118 billion, more than double the surplus Bush is projecting for that year.

Even some Republicans faulted Bush's budget sleight of hand.

"They've obviously played an inordinate number of games to try to make it look better," Sen. Judd Gregg, the top Republican on the Budget Committee, said in an interview with The Associated Press.

"Let's face it. This budget is done with the understanding that nobody's going to be taking a long, hard look at it," said Gregg, R-N.H.

While Bush projects that total security funding in the areas of the budget controlled by annual appropriations will go up by 8.2%, he projects only a 0.3% increase in discretionary spending for the rest of government.

To achieve such a small boost, Bush would hold hundreds of programs well beyond what is needed to keep up with inflation. He also seeks to eliminate or sharply slash 151 programs he considers unnecessary.

End of excerpts.

I wonder which 151 programs will be eliminated or sharply slashed?

In an election year will the Republicans and the Democrats go along with Old George W's proposed budget?

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Old 02-04-2008, 11:26 AM   #15
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I was hoping for a bit of change with the Dems in control of Congress at least some decent checks and balance. Guess I was wrong in that thinking
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:39 AM   #16
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Thanks, Dex I must be safe then.
Your welcome. We just need to keep voting for those who will give us stuff.
Health care
Deductable health insurance premiums


I've been thinking about others things I might want - a partial list of either paid by the government or tax credits
Internet access
Cable TV channels
Car Ins
Mental health care - and associated drugs
Vacation - at least one per year - for good mental health
Gym fees
Massages in health care?

Locally - no paying of school taxes - I don't have kids; never did.

Lets get all the troop out of other countries -that might help to pay some of the costs.
- The EU needs to pick up the ball in their region.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:45 PM   #17
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"I will not be a party to stealing money from one group of citizens to give to another group of citizens; no matter what the need or apparent justification. Once the coffers of the federal government are open to the public, there will be no shutting them again." President Grover Cleveland
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:04 PM   #18
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That's a chicken and egg problem... we elected the foxes that we wanted guarding our henhouse.

At this point, we spend an estimated $620 billion dollars on defense. That's almost half of what the entire world spends (China is second at an estimated $65 billion). Even when someone tries to do something rational (like the pentagon finally thinking that it's time to cancel the C-17 project), someone else fights it (Congress indicated they would not be happy if the Pentagon cancelled the program, there's too much spending in too many states on this program and no one wants to lose the money or jobs).

At some level, the numbers are just too much to rationally fathom.

The numbers to keep in mind to help from being overwhelmed are budget as a percentage of GDP and deficit increase. If those aren't going up, then we're fine for a while longer, in my opinion (the party seems like it should be over at some point and we'd better be ready to bring spending down accordingly at that point)
I'm suggesting that we should guard the chicken coop ourselves, rather than trying to find the most honest fox to do it for us.

Yes, the numbers are huge. If I were designing a referendum, I'd put the numbers in terms of personal income.
For example, gross personal income reported on individual FIT returns currently totals about $8.3 trillion.

So $620 billion is about 7.5% of gross incomes. The referendum question is whether you want the gov't to spend more or less than 7.5% of gross personal income on "defense". I think most people can relate to that, especially if they vote on the same question every year so this year's vote is based on what they observed as the result of last year's vote.
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:51 PM   #19
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"I will not be a party to stealing money from one group of citizens to give to another group of citizens; no matter what the need or apparent justification. Once the coffers of the federal government are open to the public, there will be no shutting them again." President Grover Cleveland
Pssst ....... Grover, the coffers are open....jump in, help yourself.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:11 PM   #20
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Let's see it took about 200 years for the first $1 trillion budget, which occurred in 1987 under Mr. Reagan who was fighting the cold war. In 2002 the budget hit $2 trillion under Old George W and now in 2008 it will hit $3 trillion for the first time ever. From 2002 until now the Medicare Bill was passed and of course we have had the Afganistan and Iraq Wars. We do remember that the Iraq War was suppose to pay for itself from the oil revenues. No I do not think that Medicare can be blamed for the $1 trillion because the cost of the program is suppose to be spread out over years.

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The combined monetary cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may reach 1 trillion dollars by the end of 2009.

Free Preview - WSJ.com

End of quote.

It appears that the Iraq and Afganistan Wars have drained our national treasure (about $1 trillion), but worse of all they have cost us dearly with OUR TROOPS and with innocent civilians being killed, wounded and maimed. Let's not forget the sac·ri·fic·es of OUR MILITARY FAMILIES and of OUR fellow Americans.

GOD BLESS US ALL
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