Car repair philosophy. Anyone think like this?

[CRLLS]

Comsumer reports say it is cheaper to keep the car until the repair exceed the cost of the car. I think the old way of thinking was half the price of the car. My idea is if it is under 2k a year repair if more get rid of it. I figure a new car will cost you 2k a year. A new camry is 20k divided by 10 is 2k What do you think of this idea?

According to Truecar, the average price paid for a 2018 Camry is around 25,000. By the time taxes title, registration and dealer doc fees, that would come to~ 27,370. That raises the repair cost reference to $2,737 per year.

Regardless of the financial calculations, it doesn't not take into consideration the inconvenience of not having that vehicle for the time that it is in the shop 2-3 times per year. The time it takes to drop off the car get a ride home, get a ride back to the shop and pick it up when done and possibly have to go back again because the shop didn't really fix it right the first time. It also assumes that the owner is OK with being broken down on the road occasionally. Repairs that are foreseeable is one thing. The random breakdowns is another.

When the car becomes undependable it is time to change IMO.

 

[Music Lover]

That's something I hadn't thought of! When all these driver assist functions become ubiquitous I wonder if the homicide rate will fall when all the angry wives can't run over their philandering husbands anymore?

Or, maybe the homicide rate will increase when people are unable to drive away from an angry mob blocking the streets...

 

[Midpack]

Like many here, we buy new and keep our cars for 8-10 years usually. It is almost always cheaper to put money into maintaining and repairing a vehicle vs buying another new one. The trade-in value of the old vehicle doesn't have much if anything to do with the ownership economics.

We used to buy new when we just didn't trust a car to get us from point A to point B reliably, but these days many good cars will run reliably for at least 200K miles. So we've been selling our old cars somewhere between 100-160K miles, even though they could go longer. The new features, safety and otherwise, are nice - but not enough to get me to trade as frequently as the norm for our age/income.

DW of course gets the newer, more reliable car, I don't want her to suffer a breakdown if I can avoid it. And when we do long trips, we take the more reliable car.

 

[retiredunder50]

When did you have the timing belt changed? i have a 2006 forester with 72,000 miles...thinking about having that changed...12 years old even though maintenance for timing belt is 105,000.

The chances for head gasket failure is fairly high for that car. Aside from that, it is a pretty trouble-free vehicle. If the gasket goes before 105K, I would have them replace the timing belt (and the water pump) for the cost of the parts alone as everything is pretty much opened up for the head gasket job. Otherwise, I would change the belt according to schedule.

 

[Chuckanut]

In 2016, I spent $950 on new tires and brakes. Most would say that with a blue book of $2,000 it did not make sense to spend that much on repairs.

?

It depends what you choose to compare the cost of maintenance and repairs to. Compare it to the blue book price and it may not make sense. Compare it to the monthly payments for a new vehicle and it makes more sense. For the cost of two, maybe three monthly payments, you drive the car for how much longer - 6 months, a year, two years? Sounds like a deal to me.

There are many reasons to buy a new car. Lack of reliability in the current car, more and better safety features in the new car, and just the fun of having a newer car that one enjoys driving.

 

[Mdlerth]

Advice from the experts

The Tappet brothers weigh in:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...lls-everyone&usg=AOvVaw3wu8xPD4Qfy-8Ho7LLV0VK

Their take echoes the consensus here. It's generally cheaper to keep the old heap running forever, but that doesn't mean it's the best decision.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

It depends what you choose to compare the cost of maintenance and repairs to. Compare it to the blue book price and it may not make sense. Compare it to the monthly payments for a new vehicle and it makes more sense. For the cost of two, maybe three monthly payments, you drive the car for how much longer - 6 months, a year, two years? Sounds like a deal to me.

Exactly. When doing my analysis in keeping the older car, there were quite a few numbers to crunch. Between the payments (or full purchase price at the outset), increased insurance costs, actual operation costs, and taxes, it just made more sense to "anticipate" dropping up to 3K for a problem that *might* rear its ugly head.

Here is what my back of the napkin figures told me.

Current Car Costs:

Insurance: $312 a year (this cost if for liability only but I am currently carrying full coverage, but not necessary and on the cusp of dropping it).

Registration: Free (military retiree exemption)

Taxes: Zero

Emissions: 20 a year

A few months ago, I did a lot of preventive maintenance on the car. All fluids were flushed/changed, new spark plugs, upgraded brakes, serpentine belt, filters replaced and tires. For the next 30K miles (or 4-5 years), the only routine maintenance will be filters and oil changes. I get a lot of free or deeply discounted oil change coupons from the stealership, so this cost will be minimal.

So at this point, the only cost to operate the car is insurance and gas.

Now, if I purchased a new car (or new to me), the estimated cost would be about 25,000. *IF* I paid for it outright, then I would expect to lose around $875 a year on returns I could get on that money (figured @ 3.5%). Other costs:

Insurance: $860 (full coverage)

Registration: $18 one time title fee

Tax on Purchase: $1,190


So, the "extra" outlay would be (if financed at 0%): $1,756 initially. To me, this is not an insignificant amount of money. So, I decided to keep the older car and take the risk.

But, the car isn't a requirement and I could go without it for an indefinite period of time. I even played with the idea of selling it and buying something that would be "equivalent" in costs, but I have had the car from day 1 and know that it's been very well cared for. I don't think I could find anything similar for 9 or 10K.

 

[gauss]

My everyday car is a 2003 Subaru with 158,000 miles. I want one of those new $35,000 Subaru's. To keep myself from buying that new car, I spend way more than most would on maintaining the old beauty. In 2016, I spent $950 on new tires and brakes. Most would say that with a blue book of $2,000 it did not make sense to spend that much on repairs.

In 2011, I paid $200 for a Pioneer stereo to replace the original still working Subaru radio. Now in 2018, I am going to pay $200 for a new Kenwood stereo to replace the 6 1/2 year old Pioneer, even though it still works. It just doesn't do as much as the new stereos.

I am also going to have a dent repaired for perhaps a few hundred.

But here is the key: If I spend $500 a year on non-essential things to keep the old car pretty and fun to drive, it will save me $35,000 which may be about $400 or more per month.

Anyone do this?

With no vehicle in our current fleet newer than year 2002, I say yes!

I have added after-market heated seats to DW's vehicle.

Need to break down and replace tires on one. They have been dry-rotting for years, but now are handling quite poorly in the Midwestern snow.

This strategy works for us in that I repair the vehicles myself for the most part. Being retired I have the time. I am not one to outsource very many things.

-gauss

 

[RunningBum]

I pretty much limit myself to fixing things for safety and reliability on old cars. Kind of wish I had replaced the stereo on my 97 Miata to at least play CDs, but I didn't. I'm afraid if I did something now that'd doom the car.

Well, I'm tempting fate. After this post I looked into the cost, and found a head unit on sale for $39, not even a CD player but it takes a USB drive, SD card, and has an auxiliary port. I put it in today. So long, cassette tapes!

 

[Floridatennisplayer]

For me, I’ve had 3 cars in 30 years:
1987 Mercedes 260E
2002 Mercedes E320
2013 Mercedes C300 Sport

For my wife I don’t take chances. We lease a new Honda Accord every 36 months. Honda National Lease Program.... Zero down, around $280 per month. Well worth having no worries.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

OP here. As I stated, I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy L with 158,000 miles. It is totally reliable.

I love new beautiful, sexy cars. I just don't like parting with that much cash, worrying that someone will dent it and paying more for ins and taxes. So, I treat myself to the little niceties that keep me from spending the big bucks. Just had a new stereo added for $200. It rocks. Decided not to have the 2 minor dents repaired as the shop wanted $1,100. In 2017, I had the state inspection done at the same time I had the oil changed for a total of $47. And I bought a small tube of OEM paint for about $20. That was it for repairs. Of course, I only put 5,000 miles on my Subaru.

I forgot to tell you that in 2017, I purchased a 2002 BMW Z3 3.0. She is beautiful. She can fly and cost a fraction of a new $35,000 cutie.

On long trips, we drive our "new" car, DW's 2011 Toyota Rav4. It now has 75,000 miles.

I agree with many of you who will only replace an old car when it is no longer reliable or the cost to maintain exceeds several months payments on a new car.

 

[Souschef]

I
At some point each person has to decide when to replace their car or keep pouring $$ into an old nearly worthless car.

We were faced with that with DW's 1998 Caddy. It lost its second head gasket due to poor engine design. The car had over 100K miles on it, and I feel was up on the reliability bathtub curve.
We got rid of it and bought a Mazda CX-5. At first DW was uncomfortable with all the bells and whistles, but slowly worked into it. The thing she loves is the adaptive cruise control that will automatically slow the car if the car in front of her slows down.

 

[RenoJay]

Even new cars will need tires, maintenance and dent removal. You’re doing great! (BTW...I have one of the newer Subies and my ex has an old one. Nothing special about the new ones...their tech is virtually useless and very user unfriendly.)

 

[samclem]

I think people are missing something when they say "I'm not going to spend $1000 to fix my old car that's only worth $1500." To me, the "book value" of my used car doesn't mean much. I know how that car has been treated and I know its quirks and if it has any big problems. That info is really valuable, and generally makes the car worth more to me than its book value. Put another way, there's no way I could have the same confidence in a replacement used car I bought for the book value of my resent daily driver.
So, yes, I will make "uneconomical" repairs on a solid car I've owned for years if I think the investment gives better value than other uses of that money (e.g. spending on higher car payments, etc).

 

[bolt]

As wholly illustrated to me in the last five yrs., autos can be expensive if you're churning them yourself. I support your autos maintenance regimen & strategy. .

 

[ponyboy]

OP here. As I stated, I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy L with 158,000 miles. It is totally reliable.

I love new beautiful, sexy cars. I just don't like parting with that much cash, worrying that someone will dent it and paying more for ins and taxes. So, I treat myself to the little niceties that keep me from spending the big bucks. Just had a new stereo added for $200. It rocks. Decided not to have the 2 minor dents repaired as the shop wanted $1,100. In 2017, I had the state inspection done at the same time I had the oil changed for a total of $47. And I bought a small tube of OEM paint for about $20. That was it for repairs. Of course, I only put 5,000 miles on my Subaru.

I forgot to tell you that in 2017, I purchased a 2002 BMW Z3 3.0. She is beautiful. She can fly and cost a fraction of a new $35,000 cutie.

On long trips, we drive our "new" car, DW's 2011 Toyota Rav4. It now has 75,000 miles.

I agree with many of you who will only replace an old car when it is no longer reliable or the cost to maintain exceeds several months payments on a new car.

I was never concerned with how the body looked...unless it was rusting or falling apart. Thats one of the reasons I have used cars. I dont care anymore if someone dings my door or I get dents here and there. With a new car im always paranoid about that which doesnt make sense either.

Also...your 2003 subaru with 153,000 miles is finally broken in, thats not that many miles. You can easily push that over 250,000 miles assuming you replaced the timing belt....also keep an eye on the head gasket. Other than that just normal wear and tear things...its a no brainer to keep it running.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I have not spent a penny on car maintenance for 10 years. I lease.

 

[Music Lover]

I have not spent a penny on car maintenance for 10 years. I lease.

What you save on maintenance you pay for multiple times over in depreciation.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

What you save on maintenance you pay for multiple times over in depreciation.

Absolute rubbish, This is America, Lease cars for me end up cheaper than buying. The Last 3 of them were worth less at the end of the lease than the buyout was. So I gave them back. AND I do not lease rubbish cars.

I replace a car every 3 years whether I need to or not, because I can and like driving new cars. I would loose a lot more if I purchased each one outright.

Most people do not REALLY understand leasing. It can work to your advantage assuming do not keep cars till they drop. IMHO I did not work for 40 years to retire early so I have to drive an old(er) or used car.

 

[REWahoo]

I have not spent a penny on car maintenance for 10 years. I lease.

No maintenance costs in those lease payments? Actually it's like Prego:

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I never said there we no maintenance costs. What I said is I have not paid any specifically. Plus ALL the cars I have had, have NEVER needed any in the 3 years I have owned.

Even 20 years ago when I actually purchased a car, I never had to pay any maintenance as all issues (If any) were 100% covered by the warranty.

 

[Music Lover]

Absolute rubbish, This is America, Lease cars for me end up cheaper than buying. The Last 3 of them were worth less at the end of the lease than the buyout was. So I gave them back. AND I do not lease rubbish cars.

I replace a car every 3 years whether I need to or not, because I can and like driving new cars. I would loose a lot more if I purchased each one outright.

Most people do not REALLY understand leasing. It can work to your advantage assuming do not keep cars till they drop. IMHO I did not work for 40 years to retire early so I have to drive an old(er) or used car.

I understand leasing...I also understand math and depreciation. If you want a new car very 3 years then you're paying the depreciation premium regardless of whether you lease or buy. There's nothing wrong with that if you don't mind paying for it.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

If you want a new car very 3 years then you're paying the depreciation premium regardless of whether you lease or buy. There's nothing wrong with that if you don't mind paying for it.

Bottom line is the Depreciation is a lot more if you buy than lease. NOT the number on the agreement, or the "Posted Estimated" depreciation, the REAL one after 3 years, what you can get for it if you sell it. The fact you can give it back if you do not want to pay the buy out is a gift. Again This is from experience of the pat 4 car leases.

Again, I change cars every 3 years regardless. So for me it is a savings. If I were to sell the car after 3 years I would loose over 30% more from a depreciation perspective. THAT assumes the car never had an accident and has a clean One Owner CARFAX or AUTOCHECK report. If it has an accident record all bets are off. THAT insurance alone is worth the lease. Not too many folks take that and GAP insurance into account. These are included with any reputable car lease.

 

[RunningBum]

I think people are missing something when they say "I'm not going to spend $1000 to fix my old car that's only worth $1500." To me, the "book value" of my used car doesn't mean much. I know how that car has been treated and I know its quirks and if it has any big problems. That info is really valuable, and generally makes the car worth more to me than its book value. Put another way, there's no way I could have the same confidence in a replacement used car I bought for the book value of my resent daily driver.
So, yes, I will make "uneconomical" repairs on a solid car I've owned for years if I think the investment gives better value than other uses of that money (e.g. spending on higher car payments, etc).

And sometimes people know that the condition of their current car is not all that good. Spending $1000 to fix a $1500 car is not a good investment if you're likely to spend another $1000 in a few months.

If you're going to replace it with another $1500 car, maybe it is ok, but do people here really do that? I replace an old car with a new or fairly current used car that *should* be a lot more reliable.

 

[dvalley]

Kind of like stocks the book value only matters if you're looking to sell the car but if you keep driving it then you have to look at the maintenance cost and divide it by the number of years you plan to keep it. So if you spend $500 on new tires and you get 5yrs out of the car then your operating expense was $100 per yr (plus anything else you did to the car).

Operating expense on a new car would be the (cost + maintenance if any)-residual value divided by the length of time. So if you keep a new car worth $30k for 5yrs and at the end of 5yrs it's worth $15k then (30k - 15k)/5yrs=$3k per year operating cost.

Leasing again could work out if you like having a new car every 3yrs...but if you don't fancy new cars every three years leasing is generally more expensive compared to say 5 or 8 yrs of ownership. You can come out ahead even more if you buy a lease return and keep that for 5yrs. 10yrs on newer cars (Toyota, Honda etc) is nothing. After 10yrs expensive things can start to add up, say catalytic converters, timing belts, major suggested maintenance, TPMS sensors etc all generally have a 10yr life span or 10yr warranty.

EDIT: Btw, I'm a huge car nut, I have a few cars, my daily drivers are usually new cars that I buy and keep for 10yrs or so but I keep older project cars to tinker with have fun with, these tend to be a pickup, a sports car and basket case.