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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 06:11 PM   #21
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

Testicles...
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 06:13 PM   #22
 
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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Testicles...
No wonder I didn't get it. Still don't!
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 06:19 PM   #23
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

Well, the have a pair was a reference to that, the next part was a seperate thought.

Thought one: You are brave

Thought two: Navy brig runs a risk of being an unwilling boyfriend of your big cellmate....
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 06:25 PM   #24
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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Originally Posted by Laurence
Well, the have a pair was a reference to that, the next part was a seperate thought.
Thought one: You are brave
Thought two: Navy brig runs a risk of being an unwilling boyfriend of your big cellmate....
Here, Laurence, lemme translate some cultural misapprehensions.

You see, your problem here is that you assume that us Navy guys have to actually be "IN" the brig for that behavior to occur.

Of course I'm just a relic of one of the Navy's last guy bastions. So I could be wrong, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Cut-Throat, I'm surprised that some supervisor didn't ask to see the requisitions for all the supplies & materials that you hypothetically "consumed" during your "maintenance", or all the excess depot-level repairables that you should've turned in afterwards. You woulda been busted during the second quarter-- you were supposed to keep ordering all that stuff and then selling it to military surplus stores!

Not that I actually know anything about that. I've just been looking over my old notes from the Senior Legal Officer's course.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 06:47 PM   #25
 
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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Cut-Throat, I'm surprised that some supervisor didn't ask to see the requisitions for all the supplies & materials that you hypothetically "consumed" during your "maintenance", or all the excess depot-level repairables that you should've turned in afterwards. You woulda been busted during the second quarter-- you were supposed to keep ordering all that stuff and then selling it to military surplus stores!

Not that I actually know anything about that. I've just been looking over my old notes from the Senior Legal Officer's course.
Well, this was back during the Vietnam War. We were running a World War II radar. The only spare parts that were available was a bone-Yard of radar machines that we were free to pilfer for our parts. Believe it or not these Radar machines used Vacuum Tubes!

The maintenance itself did not 'consume parts' as long as you got 'good readings' - And when we filled in the forms, they always indicated the readings were 'good'. We did maintenance only when a part failed. We would go to the Bone-Yard out in the Woods and scavenger for parts.

The radar units had Rack mounted electronic chassis. Just pulling out the Chassis to be able to test Voltages, may result in a broken wire or other damaged part. We soon discovered that not Pulling out the rack mounted ELectronics resulted in far less down time and more naps in the woods. 8)

When I got out of the Navy, the 'CO' of the base asked me what I thought contributed to the Highest "Up time of any Facility on the Base" - I told him that with old equipment, it paid not to disturb the components any more than necessary. I left it at that.

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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 06:56 PM   #26
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
When I got out of the Navy, the 'CO' of the base asked me what I thought contributed to the Highest "Up time of any Facility on the Base" - I told him that with old equipment, it paid not to disturb the components any more than necessary. I left it at that.
This is a great story. I'd love to hear more of your Navy stories. It reads like an old movie with Fred MacMurray.

Ha
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 07:19 PM   #27
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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This is a great story. I'd love to hear more of your Navy stories. It reads like an old movie with Fred MacMurray.
You know Fred was the bad guy in "The Caine Mutiny", right?

Maybe it should be Jack Lemmon or Henry Fonda... but not Kelsey Grammar.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 07:25 PM   #28
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

In one of my offices we had a really old piece of cryptographic gear (but, at least it was solid state). The techies were always coming to do "preventaive maintenance" on it, after which it would not work right. Since the gear was important, I finally had a talk with the head techie and convinced him not to do any more maintenance until it broke. It turns out there was a reason they were always messing with it--it was the last machine of its kind in our area, and all the apprentice tech guys needed to work on it to get signed off and compete for promotion.

Back to cars . . . sometimes think I'm the last person in the US who still changes his own oil. One of our cars has a filter that's very hard to get to. Does anybody have experience with the remote-mount filter kits? It would be very nice to just unscrew the filter (place upen-end up for a change) from a bracket on the firewall.

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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 07:28 PM   #29
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?



Back to car upkeep...I tink C-T has hit all the bases. Besides oil changes, fresh coolant, and brakes - I'm big on tire rotation. My Envoy has 17" tires and they are expensive to replace. I have an impact wrench and 2 jacks so rotation is a snap. I also work the full-size spare into the 5k mile rotation, so 5 tires are being changed. After 39,000 miles all look good. Hoping for another 20,000...we'll see.

PS The extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee has more than paid for itself. The dealer always gives me a loaner and when I pick up the truck "no charge".


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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 08:09 PM   #30
 
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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This is a great story. I'd love to hear more of your Navy stories. It reads like an old movie with Fred MacMurray.

Ha
Mikey,

The funniest story that I remember from my time in the Navy.

I was stationed at a very small base in the Woods in Florida. About 200 people total. It reminded me a lot of MASH (that was very popular at that time). We had our own Major Frank Burns equivalents. One day the Frank Burns equivalent - A Chief Petty Officer decided that the Barracks and Main Office building of the Base looked a bit drab and he was going to plant flowers around the building to spiff things up. The guys that worked for him were really heavy into Drugs at that time - This is 1972 Man! - Pot, LSD, and Hallegenic Mushrooms were growing next to the base, you name it! - Anyway these guys decide to ditch most of the Flower seeds and plant Marjuiana seeds around the barracks. They got a real kick out of watching the Chief water their Pot Plants every morning.

The real funny part is when the Base had a 'Drug Crackdown' on the Base. Everyone was removed from the Main building/barracks when NIS showed up with their drug sniiffing dogs. We could hardly keep from laughing when the Dogs kept sniffing the Pot Plants, and their handlers had to pull them into the building to find the 'Real Drugs'

The Chief did a good job fertilizing and watering the Pot Plants all summer. He never did understand why they did not produce the flowers that were on the picture of the seed package, but he appreciated the greenery that the plants provided and was really impressed with the size they attained!

When the Fall harvest came, the guys that lived in the barracks claimed that the Chief's Pot was pretty good stuff! - And the Chief thanked them for cleaning up the foilage before winter.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 08:27 PM   #31
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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... all the apprentice tech guys needed to work on it to get signed off and compete for promotion.
I used to confront that challenge with Navy dentists & wisdom-tooth extractions.

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Originally Posted by samclem
Back to cars . . . sometimes think I'm the last person in the US who still changes his own oil. One of our cars has a filter that's very hard to get to. Does anybody have experience with the remote-mount filter kits? It would be very nice to just unscrew the filter (place upen-end up for a change) from a bracket on the firewall.
I still do my own oil changes... every six months or 1500 miles, and usually the time expires first. Since we tend to have cars long enough to risk stripping out the crankcase drain I installed the "Sure-Drain" plugs, which has greatly reduced the excitement factor.

I can't believe the conspiracy theorists let the aftermarket guys make oil filters accessible. What's next-- lifetime CV boots? Million-mile sparkplugs? Automatic transmissions that never need maintenance? A 100-mpg carburetor?!?
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 08:45 PM   #32
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

Doing the replacements listed in the car manual (and nothing more) seems to be the way to go.

I used to have the idea that it was best to have the dealer service the car until the 36 month warranty expires. *But I've been rethinking that now that I'm ER and have lots of free time to scout out deals.

Most dealers will quote a price of $300 for the 30k service on my Prius. *I found a coupon for $220 from my dealer. *I noticed that the only actual services listed in the owner's manual for 30k were an oil change, tire rotation, and air filter change. *Everything else listed were just inspections. *I figured I could change the filter myself for the price of the part, do the oil at a cheaper place, and I get free rotations elsewhere so all I really need to make sure my warranty coverage is up to date is the inspections. *I asked the dealer how much he would charge for just the inspections, and he said $120. *Once he could see I was really trying to avoid unneccessary costs he said "off the record" that I don't need the inspections to qualify for warranty coverage and that most of that stuff never goes bad at 30k anyway. *Many of the inspections are stuff that Oil Changers do as part of their $30 oil change, so I decided not to bother getting the inspections done.

I'm questioning whether I really should have paid $180 to the dealer for the 15k service... it was just an oil change, rotation and some inspections. * *I could have just spent $30 on the oil change and got the rotation for free.

Also note that many dealers add extra completely unnecessary services to their scheduled services, above and beyond what is listed in the owners manual. *Definitely reject those.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 08:52 PM   #33
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

I changed my oil a few times and decided it wasn't worth the hassle. I never invested in the ramps or aftermarket jacks so jacking the car up and then crawling around with barely enough clearance to keep my nose off the oilpan wasn't much fun. I figure the $30 I pay at Oil Changers is well worth it for the insurance against having the car fall off the jack and crush me. Plus they do some inspections while the car is up on the lift that I just couldn't do. Not to mention dealing with recycling the oil.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 09:13 PM   #34
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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I changed my oil a few times and decided it wasn't worth the hassle.* I never invested in the ramps or aftermarket jacks so jacking the car up and then crawling around with barely enough clearance to keep my nose off the oilpan wasn't much fun.* *I figure the $30 I pay at Oil Changers is well worth it for the insurance against having the car fall off the jack and crush me.* Plus they do some inspections while the car is up on the lift that I just couldn't do.* Not to mention dealing with recycling the oil.
It keeps getting better every year--
Drive-up Rhino Ramps-- $15* (no car jacks).
Trash bag with crumpled newspaper, oil-soaked contents burned at local HPower plant-- free.
Sure-Drain oil-changing plug-- $10.

Inspections... don't know, never had anything fail because it wasn't regularly inspected.* It's pretty easy to spot drips & dangling objects while you're changing the oil.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 09:35 PM   #35
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

I'm an oil changer myself, but I have never heard of Sure-Drain oil plugs. I guess you can get those at any car parts store? As for oil, I just pour it into a container and leave it at the nearest oil change place.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 09:41 PM   #36
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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I'm an oil changer myself, but I have never heard of Sure-Drain oil plugs.* I guess you can get those at any car parts store?
Probably. Wal-Mart too.

Family Handyman has an "I Want That!" update just about every issue; Sure-Drain popped up a couple years ago.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 09:43 PM   #37
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

Yep, oil changes are usually fast and not exciting. I did strip a drain plug once, and years ago I didn't notice that the old filter gasket stayed on the block and I just spun the new filter onto it. It's amazing how fast the oil pumped out and all over the place, very "impressive".

Fram makes oil plugs that open with a little gizmo, I've used them, but the flow rate is very slow. I'm going to check for the ones Nords uses.

Filters: IIRC, Fram filters are not good. Most others are okay (including Purolator, many other brands)

I figure I save about 15 bucks per oil change. I check out the CV boots when I'm down there. I use 50% synthetic--it's probably not really worth it, but I drive a lot of short distances and it also gets cold in te winter where I'm at.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 10:01 PM   #38
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

I tried the sure drains. Had trouble with them leaking on one car, no matter what sort of gasket I used. Other than that, for me they were as messy and troublesome as a regular oil plug. Troublesome on the occasions you wanted to drop in for a quickie oil change at some lube place, half the time I'd get "what the heck is THAT?" :
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 10:02 PM   #39
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

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... years ago I didn't notice that the old filter gasket stayed on the block and I just spun the new filter onto it.* It's amazing how fast the oil pumped out and all over the place, very "impressive".
A friend of mine earned his first motorcycle accident that way. *The dealer had changed his oil for him (free warranty checkup) and the mechanic hadn't noticed that the first gasket stayed behind. *Between the insurance and their legal settlement he was able to buy an even bigger & faster crotch rocket, but that's another sad story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
Fram makes oil plugs that open with a little gizmo, I've used them, but the flow rate is very slow. *I'm going to check for the ones Nords uses.
Uhm, I think that's the one. *It takes 5-10 minutes to drain, which is enough time for me to lay rags all over the chassis & floor to absorb the filter's mess when I remove it. *By the time I'm done cleaning up all the horizontal surfaces and putting in the new filter, the crankcase has drained.

I've read that Fram oil filters are crap but I don't know how a 10-year-old car would be able to tell the difference. *I've been using them for decades and I don't know how I would tell either. *Same for the oil-- I just go for the second-cheapest 5W-30 on the shelf (the cheapest looks like it's refills from the recycled oil dropped off by yesterday's customers). *

I suspect that oil & filters are along the lines of the "Tastes great, less filling", "Single malt vs blended" and "Pouilly Fuissé vs Two-buck Chuck" debates...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
I tried the sure drains. Had trouble with them leaking on one car, no matter what sort of gasket I used. Other than that, for me they were as messy and troublesome as a regular oil plug. Troublesome on the occasions you wanted to drop in for a quickie oil change at some lube place, half the time I'd get "what the heck is THAT?" :
They're sized differently for various cars and I find that the drain hoses are pretty long. One nice thing about the plug is that you can start draining hot oil without burning yourself, although I have yet to solve the hot-filter problem (a water-soaked rag and the hot-engine dance just doesn't cut it). I've never had a leak and I trimmed the hose to fit my drain pan.

I've never used a lube place.
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?
Old 05-10-2006, 10:07 PM   #40
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Re: Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

Some time ago I had linked to an article some eng-ineer had written who had bought and taken apart all of the oil filters. The fram was a definite no-no...some plastic parts, a piece of string tying the filter material together and not a lot of filter material, along with a design that frequently bypassed the filter altogether and just passed the unfiltered oil back into the engine. Generally bad mojo. Guy liked purolator, purolator plus, motorcraft and a couple of others that used metal parts, didnt bypass unless the oil was really cold or the pressure was really high, more and better filtration material, and something upscale of a piece of string holding the filter material together. I'll see if I can find the article.

but in short, yes, an old car needs good oil filtration as much as a new one.

As far as oil, last time I saw someone do a full test was consumer reports doing it on taxi cabs in NYC. That was a long time ago, maybe 10 years. They found little difference between the 10w40's but more depletion of additives and viscosity loss in some 10w30's than in others. I figure if it meets the SG (or whatever the current 'standard' is) and i'm changing it every 2-3k miles or 6 months (the latter almost always coming first), its all good.
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